MasterPavel 115 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="joesuffP" data-cid="2342835" data-time="1358734935"><p> Blues aggressive style could have been beaten if wings knew how to pass the puck</p></blockquote> This team doesn't have enough skill to overcome it anymore. 1 T.Low reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Of course it would. But this is what happens with a salary cap. Just to be clear, I'm alluding more to injuries than anything else. Especially Helm. Of course, if we want to get into the actual make-up of the thing - I'm not big on the whole Old guy / Helm / Old guy thing. Also, I've determined the perfect response to the OP is: YOU CHILL OUT!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Fact that Helm and Bert were out also does matter. Helmer is our clutch 3rd line center and bert is a big body we could have used in that game. We probs still would have lost that game thou.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest irishock Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Bert and Cleary shouldn't be on Helm's wing. Miller should be on Helm's wing. Those 2 play with the most heart on this team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Bert and Cleary shouldn't be on Helm's wing. Miller should be on Helm's wing. Those 2 play with the most heart on this team. This. Babs wants to be able to put Bert somewhere because he likes him, but the sad reality is, he doesn't fit on our team anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pvilleguru 65 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) So if they all suck, then who is going to want them and what are we going to get for them and how will they do it within the confines of the salary cap? I'm not completely sure how the salary cap works, but I'm ok with trading away some of the guys for just draft picks. Let some younger guys (Nyquist, etc.) get some actual NHL experience the rest of this short season. Use the money freed up from the trades in the free agency market. Hell, I'd trade a guy like Samuelsson for a bag of pucks as long as his salary doesn't count against our cap. Edited January 21, 2013 by pvilleguru Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWingsRox 614 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 We moved up one spot in the standings, we went from 15th to 14th ... 1 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogreslayer 1,069 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 You know they always say that to see what kind of team you have, you really need to wait until around Thanksgiving..... Oh s***! I guess that should be Groundhog Day this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) . Edited January 21, 2013 by rick zombo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unsaddleddonald 357 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Here is a summary of the ranting: -We lost Rafalski...."replaced" by Ian White -We lost Lidstrom/Stuart...."replaced" by Carlo Colaiacovo -We chose Franzen.....Hossa has 5 points (4 goals) through 2 games this season Fantastic...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Here is a summary of the ranting:-We lost Rafalski...."replaced" by Ian White -We lost Lidstrom/Stuart...."replaced" by Carlo Colaiacovo -We chose Franzen.....Hossa has 5 points (4 goals) through 2 games this season Fantastic...... Hossa is so much better than Franzen it's not even funny. 2 T.Low and esteef reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeymom1960 5,107 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Bert and Cleary shouldn't be on Helm's wing. Miller should be on Helm's wing. Those 2 play with the most heart on this team. Actually I'd love to see a Miller/Helm/Eaves line. 2 GoWings1905 and swedishconnection reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Playmaker Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Hossa is so much better than Franzen it's not even funny. Hindsight is always 20/20...Rafalski retired totally unexpectedly and Holland got what he could last minute...This summer, he made a concerted effort to get the best FA defenseman available, and it didn't happen for reasons that were mostly out of his control...After Franzen's dominating 2008 Cup winning performance and Hossa's disappearing act in the playoffs the one year we had him, not many were interested in keeping Hossa at the time. Of course NOW everyone will say that wanted Hossa, of course and that Holland is just an idiot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Playmaker Report post Posted January 21, 2013 This.Babs wants to be able to put Bert somewhere because he likes him, but the sad reality is, he doesn't fit on our team anymore. I don't really agree with that. He's not a top 6 scorer any more. He's only 37 and relatively cheap and he was personally responsible for several shootout wins. Those points counted in the standings. I just don't think for his salary and what he contributes that he's all that bad to keep around. 1 T.Low reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Hindsight is always 20/20...Rafalski retired totally unexpectedly and Holland got what he could last minute...This summer, he made a concerted effort to get the best FA defenseman available, and it didn't happen for reasons that were mostly out of his control...After Franzen's dominating 2008 Cup winning performance and Hossa's disappearing act in the playoffs the one year we had him, not many were interested in keeping Hossa at the time. Of course NOW everyone will say that wanted Hossa, of course and that Holland is just an idiot. As I said in the Kings-'hawks GDT - Hossa always tries. That's what I like about him. This Wings team needs more Hossas, fewer Franzens. It needs heart, effort, consistency, dogged determination. It needs some kind of edge, spark. It needs legs, speed, jump. How much is Franzen helping on these fronts? I'm not harping on what could've been. (Well, alright, maybe I am. A little.) I'm saying Hossa >>> Franzen. Another thing (and it's not necessarily in response to anything you just said, Playmaker): I don't really buy this "Franzen is a playoff beast, Hossa is not" line. Franzen had an amazing run way back when. And it was glorious. But, for the most part, he hasn't exactly established himself as a force to be reckoned with in the postseason. I realize Hossa hasn't done much better, and he certainly hasn't had a run like Franzen did in '08, but, overall, and pound-for-pound, Hossa is the better player. Just sayin'. Edited January 22, 2013 by Dabura 2 Hockeymom1960 and GoWings1905 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unsaddleddonald 357 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Hindsight is always 20/20...Rafalski retired totally unexpectedly and Holland got what he could last minute...This summer, he made a concerted effort to get the best FA defenseman available, and it didn't happen for reasons that were mostly out of his control...After Franzen's dominating 2008 Cup winning performance and Hossa's disappearing act in the playoffs the one year we had him, not many were interested in keeping Hossa at the time. Of course NOW everyone will say that wanted Hossa, of course and that Holland is just an idiot. I disagree to an extent. At that moment for Holland, he KNEW what Hossa was. He is a big body forward with good athleticism with a PROVEN track record. A guy who will give you at least 70-80 points every season. Franzen was a diamond in the rough player at that point who had a nice couple of seasons, but he didn't have the proven history that Hossa did. The reality is that Franzen cannot be the #1 goal scorer for a team. His two best seasons came when he was #2 (behind Hank in 2008 and behind Hossa in 2009). 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swedishconnection 36 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Guys one data point does not make a trend. Wait until we have a few more games to judge the team. The main concern that I think most of us have is that the game vs St. Louis was probably the worst game from start to finish that we have seen. I've seen bad games; Ive seen terrible periods; but never have I seen such a game where a puck-possession team never (NEVER!) had the puck more than 7 seconds. Seriously, seven (7?) shots on net all game? This must be how Columbus fans felt in their first season in the league. I am not going to jump off a cliff here, but I dont think I have ever seen a game where there was nothing positive to work off of. I really hope we can use this as a giant wake up call. I want to see the Wings turn it around. What we saw the other night was the furthest thing from Red Wing hockey that I have seen in the last decade. 1 Hockeymom1960 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 The main concern that I think most of us have is that the game vs St. Louis was probably the worst game from start to finish that we have seen. I've seen bad games; Ive seen terrible periods; but never have I seen such a game where a puck-possession team never (NEVER!) had the puck more than 7 seconds. Seriously, seven (7?) shots on net all game? This must be how Columbus fans felt in their first season in the league. I am not going to jump off a cliff here, but I dont think I have ever seen a game where there was nothing positive to work off of. I really hope we can use this as a giant wake up call. I want to see the Wings turn it around. What we saw the other night was the furthest thing from Red Wing hockey that I have seen in the last decade. first of all 14 shots on net. Second, remember our 7-1 loss to the caps last year to end our 5 game winning streak that started the season, and sparked a 6 game losing streak? Of course you don't, because wings fans have terrible memories of when we play awful and put it out of their minds. That way every time they have a real bad game we can go OMG WERE DOOMED!!! I'VE NEVER SEEN THE WINGS PLAY THIS BAD EVER. Give me a break, every team plays like amateurs from time to time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) We need more people complaining about the complaining. Edited January 21, 2013 by Dabura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 I would have always chosen Hossa over Franzen. Hossa was injured pretty badly during the playoffs and he was the easy scapegoat for losing. Hossa is just better at everything on the ice. Nobody has ever questioned Hossa's work ethic. I think the Red Wings issues obviously run deeper than just Franzen over Hossa right now, but Holland messed up badly there. 1 LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Yes, there is real hockey! But maybethe Wings didn't get the message? LOL... As bad as saturdays game was, you can't judge a season by one game. That being said, every weakness and fear that many of us have had was on full display sat. night. too old, too small, too weak, too scared etc.... As much as I love Micky on TV, I laugh my butt off everytime that "Franzen needs to address-pick another teams tough guy" like he did sat. night ref. backus. has franzen ever addressed anyone? If he ever tried too, he would just get another concussion anyway...... Ok enough with the negatives. the 48 game season should help the wings. fewer games means less wear and tear on our old bodies. Last year we were the best team after 50 games or so. But even if we do ok during the regular season, we will not make a deep playoff run. STL and LA are head and shoulders better than we are right now. Either way, it is good to have hockey back! Even ifit means fighting for a top 10 draft pick! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 Hossa is so much better than Franzen it's not even funny. Keeping Franzen was partially a byproduct of treating players as family instead of as assets. The sad fact is, in a the sal cap world, treating plyaers like family is a luxury we cannot afford anymore. (whereas before, we simply would have kept both Franzen and Hossa) I really like Danny Cleary, but he's going to have to dig deep and work his ass off to be effective again. He can do it, but he's goiing to have to work harder than most to get it done. 2 Dabura and LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladdy16 2,154 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 This really should be merged with the "Chill out" thread, but we're having some technical difficulties so I was forced to lock it. Let's try and keep discussions in appropriate threads instead of starting new ones, please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted January 21, 2013 ...This summer, he made a concerted effort to get the best FA defenseman available, and it didn't happen for reasons that were mostly out of his control...After Franzen's dominating 2008 Cup winning performance and Hossa's disappearing act in the playoffs the one year we had him, not many were interested in keeping Hossa at the time. Of course NOW everyone will say that wanted Hossa, of course and that Holland is just an idiot. Concerted effort = expect top players to flock to Detroit for less money. Those days are over. Kenny threw a light check in the bucket with all the other teams and was surprised he didn't land him. No one else was surprised. And Hossa was and is a better player than Franzen, offensively and especially defensively. Everyone knew this. Kenny, as usual, took the cheaper of the two and got what he paid for. Nobody ever wants to admit it when Holland cleary f***s up. esteef 2 GoWings1905 and Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted January 21, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="esteef" data-cid="2343007" data-time="1358788756"><p> <br /> Concerted effort = expect top players to flock to Detroit for less money. Those days are over. Kenny threw a light check in the bucket with all the other teams and was surprised he didn't land him. No one else was surprised.<br /> <br /> And Hossa was and is a better player than Franzen, offensively and especially defensively. Everyone knew this. Kenny, as usual, took the cheaper of the two and got what he paid for. Nobody ever wants to admit it when Holland cleary f***s up.<br /> <br /> esteef</p></blockquote> Ding Ding Ding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
