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worse before better.....


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#41 Richdg

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

Well, I know that arguing with you is a complete waste of time since your opinions are never ever wrong, so really I should give up, however I would like to point out that neither the OP or myself have said "This team is definitely a disaster! It needs to be blown up now!" 

 

We, like many others on this board see this team as a borderline playoff team, and a team slowly in decline.  And that without a major infusion of youth and talent, it is indeed going to get worse before it gets better.  You insist on mocking anyone who expresses such an opinion as a hysterical chicken-licken worthy of your scorn instead of offering a constructive answer to the paper-thin defense, aging stars, unmotivated players and lack of blue-chip prospects to replace them.

Bingo. The question is "what does the leadership do about it?" There are only so many answers to that question. We either stand pat, hope for some young guys to develop quickly and a fountain of youth is discovered, or we make trades and sign FA's. It really is only those 2 options. Option 1 scars the hell out of me. We will be right back in the late 70's and early 80's again, after guys like Howe, Redmond, Delveccio, sawchuck, etc...... all left with nothing to replace them. 20 win seasons are not fun. Even in a 48 game schedule....



#42 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:47 PM

 

Well, I know that arguing with you is a complete waste of time since your opinions are never ever wrong, so really I should give up, however I would like to point out that neither the OP or myself have said "This team is definitely a disaster! It needs to be blown up now!" 
 
We, like many others on this board see this team as a borderline playoff team, and a team slowly in decline.  And that without a major infusion of youth and talent, it is indeed going to get worse before it gets better.  You insist on mocking anyone who expresses such an opinion as a hysterical chicken-licken worthy of your scorn instead of offering a constructive answer to the paper-thin defense, aging stars, unmotivated players and lack of blue-chip prospects to replace them.

 

I just noticed something...you live in the Shire lol. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

On topic, I kinda want things to get mildly worse for the Wings this year. Already 9 injuries and then only one set to come back next game is Kindl...that speaks for itself. As far as i'm concerned, the Wings need to finish bottom 5 and get McKinnon or Drouin. I don't care for Seth Jones, we have Oulette and Sproul. Franzen and Cleary need to depart asap and Quincey should be traded to the Islanders for a 7th round pick...geez, that's like a 6th round pick! Then Holland needs to convince Getzlaf, Perry or Iginla to come here in the offseason, and it's ok to talk about this already cause in 3 more games the "actual" season would be half done anyways.

If the Wings looked like this next season, I'd be quite happy:

Brunner-Datsyuk-Zetterberg
(McKinnon/Drouin)-Filppula-(Getzlaf/Perry/Iginla)
Nyquist-Helm-Jarnkrok
Abdelkader-Sheahan-Tootoo
Eaves/Miller

Kronwall-Smith
Oulette-Sproul
White-Ericsson
Coliacovo

Howard
MRAZEK

The Wings would definitely be worse now and better after...
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"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#43 Dabura

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:57 PM

It has always been the MO of this team to grow their own players.

 

Say what?


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#44 The Greek

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

 
I think it might get interesting for the Red Wings this summer. Holland has a good amount of cap space to resign our good players and might have some openings to bring in some UFA's from teams that will need to shed salary to get under the lower cap for next season.


Without a doubt. Perry and Getzlaf both have contracts coming off the books this year. I'm not sure which D-men are coming in this year, but I'm sure we can plug holes. I'm just excited about ouellette and sproull. Furthermore, this summer we may be signing dekeyser to an elc. It's hilarious how poorly equipped many of us are to deal with a couple years of mediocrity. It really is a testament to how well this team has been run.

 
Say what?


It has been the Modus operandi (MO)of this team to develop its core players as opposed to acquiring them through through trades and free agency.

#45 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

 

Without a doubt. Perry and Getzlaf both have contracts coming off the books this year. I'm not sure which D-men are coming in this year, but I'm sure we can plug holes. I'm just excited about ouellette and sproull. Furthermore, this summer we may be signing dekeyser to an elc. It's hilarious how poorly equipped many of us are to deal with a couple years of mediocrity. It really is a testament to how well this team has been run.


It has been the Modus operandi (MO)of this team to develop its core players as opposed to acquiring them through through trades and free agency.

 

I'm so well equipped for this season of mediocrity that I find myself shrugging off goals against the wings for the greater good of their future.
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"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#46 DSM

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:31 PM

   

I just noticed something...you live in the Shire lol. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

On topic, I kinda want things to get mildly worse for the Wings this year. Already 9 injuries and then only one set to come back next game is Kindl...that speaks for itself. As far as i'm concerned, the Wings need to finish bottom 5 and get McKinnon or Drouin. I don't care for Seth Jones, we have Oulette and Sproul. Franzen and Cleary need to depart asap and Quincey should be traded to the Islanders for a 7th round pick...geez, that's like a 6th round pick! Then Holland needs to convince Getzlaf, Perry or Iginla to come here in the offseason, and it's ok to talk about this already cause in 3 more games the "actual" season would be half done anyways.

If the Wings looked like this next season, I'd be quite happy:

Brunner-Datsyuk-Zetterberg
(McKinnon/Drouin)-Filppula-(Getzlaf/Perry/Iginla)
Nyquist-Helm-Jarnkrok
Abdelkader-Sheahan-Tootoo
Eaves/Miller

Kronwall-Smith
Oulette-Sproul
White-Ericsson
Coliacovo

Howard
MRAZEK

The Wings would definitely be worse now and better after...

 

 

Yea... That's some big dreaming.

 

Andersson will be the 4th line center before Sheahan gets it. Tatar would get a shot where you have Jarnkrok before Jarnkrok gets it.

 

Sproul and Oulette need to hit the AHL and the gym for a year before they can be considered regulars in the NHL.

 

Mrazek as backup is an absolute waste. The guy is going to be the clear starter in GR for atleast the next 2 seasons. Gustavsson will be fine riding the pine.

 

There's also no way Iginla would come to the Red Wings if they finish in the bottom 5 this season. He wants a cup and has played on enough bad teams in Calgary.

 

However, try this roster in a season on NHL13 and let us know how it goes. I'm curious.


Edited by DSM, 24 January 2013 - 02:35 PM.


#47 evilmrt

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:49 PM

Mrazek as backup is an absolute waste. The guy is going to be the clear starter in GR for atleast the next 2 seasons. Gustavsson will be fine riding the pine.

 

There's also no way Iginla would come to the Red Wings if they finish in the bottom 5 this season. He wants a cup and has played on enough bad teams in Calgary.

 

Is Mrazek waiver-exempt for the next two seasons? I thought Monster was a UFA after next season. 



#48 DSM

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:59 PM

Is Mrazek waiver-exempt for the next two seasons? I thought Monster was a UFA after next season. 

 

Yes. I think Mrazek is actually waiver exempt for the next THREE season, not including the one we are in...

 

Gustavsson becomes a UFA on July 1, 2014. So yes.


Edited by DSM, 24 January 2013 - 03:00 PM.


#49 Dabura

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

It has been the Modus operandi (MO)of this team to develop its core players as opposed to acquiring them through through trades and free agency.

 

I know what MO stands for, I'm challenging the idea you're putting forward. This "dynasty" of the past couple decades or so has most definitely lurved teh free agents and trades. It's why Hollland is beating the we-can't-do-that-anymore;-we-have-to-build-from-within-now drum.


Don't Toews me, bro!


#50 The Greek

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:01 PM

 
I know what MO stands for, I'm challenging the idea you're putting forward. This "dynasty" of the past couple decades or so has most definitely lurved teh free agents and trades. It's why Hollland is beating the we-can't-do-that-anymore;-we-have-to-build-from-within-now drum.


I'm well aware of our history of bringing in complimentary pieces through trade and free agency. But, when was the last time the wings' premier player at a position was acquired in such a way? Every team uses players they never drafted. I'm just making a distinction between building through free agency and plugging holes.

#51 evilmrt

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:37 PM

Yes. I think Mrazek is actually waiver exempt for the next THREE season, not including the one we are in...

 

Gustavsson becomes a UFA on July 1, 2014. So yes.

 

Thats great news, goaltender situation looks more solid in that light. For once lol. 



#52 Richdg

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

Thats great news, goaltender situation looks more solid in that light. For once lol. 

Only if Howard is resigned. He is a UFA after this year.



Say what?

Really? Shanahan, Maltby, Draper, Chelios, Vernon, Hossa, Rafalski, etc......................... It was a 50-50 mix of draftee and FA's/trades.



#53 Dabura

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:14 AM

I'm well aware of our history of bringing in complimentary pieces through trade and free agency. But, when was the last time the wings' premier player at a position was acquired in such a way? Every team uses players they never drafted. I'm just making a distinction between building through free agency and plugging holes.

 

If we're not "historically" big on acquisitions (granted, we haven't really been for a few couple seasons now), I'm not sure what team is. I guess we could agree on the tired line about the salary cap era - that you just can't do it ("build from without").

 

EDIT: To answer your question: Hossa, I think.


Edited by Dabura, 25 January 2013 - 01:18 AM.

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#54 Dabura

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:31 AM

1. Actually, the answer might be Samuelsson or Bertuzzi. I really don't care enough to check the facts (no offense intended, of course).

 

2. All of these guys (and many others) came from outside, not from within:

 

Bertuzzi

Calder

Chelios

Coffey

Corazzini

Cullen

Drake

Draper

Duchesne

Ference

Fetisov

Hartigan

Hasek

Hatcher

Hossa

Hull

Joseph

Larionov

Maltby

Murphy

Olausson

Rafalski

Ranford

Robitaille

Samuelsson, M.

Samuelsson, U.

Shanahan

Stafford

Thomas


Edited by Dabura, 25 January 2013 - 01:51 AM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#55 Dabura

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:42 AM

To get this thread back on-topic...

 

JAZZ_HANDS.png


Don't Toews me, bro!


#56 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:46 PM

Yea... That's some big dreaming.

 

Andersson will be the 4th line center before Sheahan gets it. Tatar would get a shot where you have Jarnkrok before Jarnkrok gets it.

 

Sproul and Oulette need to hit the AHL and the gym for a year before they can be considered regulars in the NHL.

 

Mrazek as backup is an absolute waste. The guy is going to be the clear starter in GR for atleast the next 2 seasons. Gustavsson will be fine riding the pine.

 

There's also no way Iginla would come to the Red Wings if they finish in the bottom 5 this season. He wants a cup and has played on enough bad teams in Calgary.

 

However, try this roster in a season on NHL13 and let us know how it goes. I'm curious.

At least that team would be interesting to watch and FAST.  The Wings lineup this year is stale aside from the regular contributors like Z and Dats.  If Quincey's play doesn't improve soon, he will likely be taking the train this offseason.  Mrazek is gonna push Howard for the starting job within the next 2 years and I disagree with you about Sproul and Oullet (or however we're gonna spell his name) and I believe they should be on the team asap.  Holland's overripe philosophy is just one of the reasons that we likely won't see DeKeyser sign here cause he's not gonna want to spend half his 20's in GR when he could be on an NHL roster next year.  And for all the guys that think Seth Jones is the quick fix for D, Oullet was better than him in the WJC and Sproul should have been there to RUN the D on Canada....instead, he was the player of the month in the CHL in December.  As well, if Iginla doesn't want to sign here, maybe Perry or Getzlaf would as they're both still under 30 and both have cup rings.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#57 MasterPavel

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:53 PM

I agree Z. Seth Jones is a talent and seems like he is a great person but if you're unlucky enough to end up in the top 5 there is high end forward talent to take this draft.

#58 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:05 PM

I agree Z. Seth Jones is a talent and seems like he is a great person but if you're unlucky enough to end up in the top 5 there is high end forward talent to take this draft.

The only thing i'm not sure on though is McKinnon or Drouin.  Cause Drouin is awesome.  He reminds me a lot of Matt Duchene, when he's not injured.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#59 joshy207

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:16 PM

A few thoughts:

-Samuelsson has a No Trade Clause.  He's not going anywhere unless he gets bought out in the summer.

-Seth Jones is 15 months and 2 draft-years younger than Ouellet.  Ouellet theoretically SHOULD be better in a setting like the WJC.  Besides, you can never have too much prospect depth on D...

 

I think this team is ripe for a change.  It just feels stale.  The challenge is figuring out the right move(s).  However, I think if this team continues to struggle and underachieve, someone needs to be moved out, not only to acquire some needed help, but to send a message to the players who remain.



#60 Nev

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:54 AM




 

I just noticed something...you live in the Shire lol. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

lol, its pronounced "sha" though, as in Tasha.  Linconsha.

 

 However, I think if this team continues to struggle and underachieve,
someone needs to be moved out, not only to acquire some needed help, but
to send a message to the players who remain.

By someone, you mean Franzen, right? :P


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk





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