PK Subban

[Guest Crymson]

Subban has a horrific attitude. I know people here like to protest that attitude doesn't matter; those people should note that you haven't a clue if this is a case, given that Holland deliberately keeps the locker room free of such personalities. They are more disruptive to team cohesion than you think, and the Wings have long benefited from having a harmonious group.

Agreed. He has a very competitive nature...I like his fire. I heard ( and can't find the link) that he was offered 5 million and he wants 7....so yikes.

In no universe is he worth the salary of a top-five defenseman.

Yeah, cause giving Ericsson 3.2 a year was DEF worth it...

Given the paucity of good free-agent defensemen and how important he is to the PK, yes, it was worth it. He would have been snapped up by another team for that price in a second had he gone to free agency.

Look at what Toronto paid for Kessel's rights....

And it was a terrible idea. What's your point?

[Carman 387]

If PK was a free agent I'd be more inline with overpaying him to get here. But the fact we'd need to give up players and picks, then sign him to a huge deal, I can see that move really back firing. I like PK as a player, but his maturity is a question, it would only be a matter of time before people turn on him and his slashing penalties. He had double the penalty minutes as any other Wing's defenseman(Took out his 3 majors), other than Quincey(Still had more than him). I don't think you can realistically rely on Subban for a big time contract without him proving his reliability to not take bad penalties that hurt the team.

There is a reason Montreal isn't signing him, even though he's such a popular and good young player.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Carman

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

I'd take him but only on a shorterm-contract. You can't predict if he fits and paying 6-7 Million to a more or less useless players on a long term would obviously cripple our team. But I doubt that Subban would sign a short term in Detroit if he doesn't do it in Montreal.

[Dabura 12,206]

But I doubt that Subban would sign a short term in Detroit if he doesn't do it in Montreal.

Maybe he wants out of Montreal. I get that he grew up on the Habs, but, well, who knows.

What I do know is I feel comfortable calling him a kid, which is weird for me because I'm but a wee 26. I think it reflects the good and bad of this package. On the good side, the kid is only 23 years old, and already he has established that he most definitely has the skills to pay the proverbial bills, and this on a shoddy team (2010-11: 14 goals and 24 assists in 17 regular season games with the Habs, 2011-12: helped lead the Habs to the ECF). On the decidedly bad side, the kid does seem to have some "issues." But he's 23. And he's not a Wing. Being a Wing has a way of humbling players and bringing out the best in them.

Is he exactly what we really, truly need on D right now? Not quite, no. But, beggars and choosers and all that. And he does have some great things to offer, no doubt it.

[evilzyme 769]

Maybe he wants out of Montreal. I get that he grew up on the Habs, but, well, who knows.

That's the thing, he doesn't want out of Montreal. He and the franchise would've already been moving if they didn't see a mutual relationship that wanted to be retained. In all of his interviews, he praises Montreal and says that he wants nothing more than to stay with the club. He just thinks he rates more than he actually does.

[Buppy 1,720]

Not sure if it's already been covered, but how can they be $2.5-3M apart? What is Montreal offering and/or how much does PK think he's worth?

Given the minutes he plays, points he puts up, plays in all situations, decently physical, decent shot blocker...got to think Montreal is offering at least $3.5-4M. Does he think he's worth $6-7M? Or are the Habs just really low-balling?

Assuming he's not actually insane in his demands, I'd like to get him. But I'd assume Montreal would want an NHL defenseman in return, and we don't have any to spare. Doubt they'd take Lashoff.

[Nightfall 871]

P.K. wants Doughty money. He wants a 6-7 year term for $6-$7 million a season.

[Dabura 12,206]

That's the thing, he doesn't want out of Montreal. He and the franchise would've already been moving if they didn't see a mutual relationship that wanted to be retained. In all of his interviews, he praises Montreal and says that he wants nothing more than to stay with the club. He just thinks he rates more than he actually does.

Because everything a person says to and in the media is wholly true. (Sorry, not trying to be a ****** bag. Just saying.) He probably does indeed want to stay with the Habs...but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that he might be considering a move. That there might be more to this than meets the eye. Again, though, who knows for sure.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Dabura

[ogreslayer 1,069]

Not sure if it's already been covered, but how can they be $2.5-3M apart? What is Montreal offering and/or how much does PK think he's worth?

Given the minutes he plays, points he puts up, plays in all situations, decently physical, decent shot blocker...got to think Montreal is offering at least $3.5-4M. Does he think he's worth $6-7M? Or are the Habs just really low-balling?

Assuming he's not actually insane in his demands, I'd like to get him. But I'd assume Montreal would want an NHL defenseman in return, and we don't have any to spare. Doubt they'd take Lashoff.

From everything I've seen, the Habs offered a 2 year deal in the $2.5-2.75m a year range. So basically, he's asking for twice what the Habs offered & also wants the deal to be 5 or 6 years instead of 2.

[evilmrt 636]

5mil per year for 8 years? They need to call up Hakan Andersson and see what he thinks.

[Buppy 1,720]

From everything I've seen, the Habs offered a 2 year deal in the $2.5-2.75m a year range. So basically, he's asking for twice what the Habs offered & also wants the deal to be 5 or 6 years instead of 2.

So basically Del Zotto's deal. Guess it makes sense, though a bit surprising considering they gave Gorges 6 yrs @ $3.9M.

[Nightfall 871]

So basically Del Zotto's deal. Guess it makes sense, though a bit surprising considering they gave Gorges 6 yrs @ $3.9M.

I bet if Subban wanted $4 million a season for 6 years then it could be a done deal. As it turns out, he wants $6-$7 million for 6 years.

[evilmrt 636]

I bet if Subban wanted $4 million a season for 6 years then it could be a done deal. As it turns out, he wants $6-$7 million for 6 years.

HAHAHAHAHA! Wheres the source for that? He's no Lidstrom. What a joke.

[sjr2012 439]

Who was the last black guy to play in Detroit? Nathan Robinson?

I always pushed for Holland to get Mike Grier or Georges Laraque, but he never did.

yea it was Robinson 4 games

Edited January 26, 2013 by sjr2012

[Nightfall 871]

HAHAHAHAHA! Wheres the source for that? He's no Lidstrom. What a joke.

I posted this once already.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/eye-on-hockey/21527208/nhl-rumors-pk-subban-looking-for-doughty-money-in-new-deal

Mind you, he isn't coming out and saying it, but if you have watched the news wire, it all fits together.

[Dabura 12,206]

P.K. Subban vs. His Peers

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I posted this once already.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/eye-on-hockey/21527208/nhl-rumors-pk-subban-looking-for-doughty-money-in-new-deal

Mind you, he isn't coming out and saying it, but if you have watched the news wire, it all fits together.

It's worth noting that the title of the article is also NHL Rumors. And that link doesn't mention the numbers you stated as fact.

Not to say Subban isn't asking for that, but it's still all just rumblings. Which are especially suspect to me since it involves Montreal.

I haven't seen him play a ton, but he's only 23 years old and has a lot of talent. I can't see him getting Doughty money though, if only because of the new CBA.

[Dabura 12,206]

One thing is for sure: we're not getting him.

[Guest fat guy in a maltby jersey]

That offer by Habs GM Marc Bergevin is more than fair.

uh, no.

no it's not.

[dirtydangles 1,328]

If benn is under 5.5per under the new CBA then subban sure should be below that. I know they play different positions but Benn is a far more established player at this point and only got 5.5.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Kenny isn't going to trade D assets. Smith bundled in a Subban trade? No thank you. Helm and Nyquist plus pick? Yes, it hurts, but the blueline needs an upgrade like yesterday.

Detroit cannot afford to trade Helm. He is much more valuable than people recognize. Look what happened in the playoff when Helm went down. They had no neutral zone speed and that is why Detroit could never create any quality chances against the Preds. Then compare the first three games of the season compared to the game vs the Wild. A returning Helm is a key upgrade to Detroit's game already.

[Guest Crymson]

2010-11: 14 goals and 24 assists in 17 regular season games with the Habs,

I'm positive that this never actually happened. You're missing 60 games there; it happened in 77.

2011-12: helped lead the Habs to the ECF

This, too, never transpired; the Habs didn't even make the playoffs last season. You're referring to 2009-2010. He hasn't performed that well since.

On the decidedly bad side, the kid does seem to have some "issues." But he's 23. And he's not a Wing. Being a Wing has a way of humbling players and bringing out the best in them.

Like who? What data do you have to support this? The very simple fact is that Ken Holland has never, in his entire tenure, signed a player who has a bad attitude. Those who developed one, i.e. Leino and Avery, ended up on a one-way plane out of town. You don't have a clue if being on the Wings could erase somebody's bad behavior. But human nature and human history suggest that if a highly-paid athlete has a bad attitude on one team, it's going to come with him wherever he goes.

Is he exactly what we really, truly need on D right now? Not quite, no. But, beggars and choosers and all that. And he does have some great things to offer, no doubt it.

And he will require great things to be offered if the Canadiens are to be enticed to let him go. And this is notwithstanding his salary demands, which seem to be absurd.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Crymson

[Guest fat guy in a maltby jersey]

Care to elaborate?

After 2 seasons in the NHL would you - the GM of the Canadiens give in to what he wants - which I'm guessing is 5 plus years at $5 plus million per season?

2.5 x 2 is a lowball, period. most fans of the canadiens and other teams agree.

you're the odd one out, here.

[Guest The Axe]

Has Detroit ever had a black player?

[dirtydangles 1,328]

I think 25 over 5 is more than fair for PK.