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OHL vs. College Hockey Quality?


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#41 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

What about Crosby again in yer post?



#42 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:54 PM

It's funny you keep avoiding the no touch icing call and no fighting in the NCAA. Yet with the stats you show OMG WITH GOING FROM COLLEGE TO THE MAJOR JUNIORS THE SCORING INCREASES. It doesn't matter whatever Major Junior team it is they play more games. The competition is weaker. Ok. I'll go along with you on that.

 

Any case against the Great One or Mario compared to any NCAA player? Oh wait don't answer that.


Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 29 January 2013 - 10:56 PM.


#43 number9

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:55 PM

I named 4. There are a few more. All 4 of those players didn't just increase scoring but increased it by a lot. Skinner's got nothing to do with it, neither does Crosby, Fact is any time a player goes from D-! to major jr, they have a much easier time scoring because the competition is so much weaker because they are younger.

I will remind you about this the next time a player goes to the CHL from the NCAA and I guarantee you and will bet you anything that his production per game will increase by at least 50%.
You will probably have forgotten by then, I won't

 

Again scoring more has nothing to do with how good the hockey is. 



#44 Johnz96

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:59 PM

you are only couting the NCAA though...of all the players taken, Like the CHL had 112 sure, but the USA Leagues had 57 drafted, yes only 9 of which were NCAA, which means our U18 player developement is getting better and better and is really, not that far behind the CHL teens... In the end it's not about quantity, but quality and you can draft 120 CHL players where 40 may get some NHL time, but of those 57 USA program kids, you may get 25 with some NHL time,  because they only take the best of the best from our leagues and more from the CHL, yes because the CHL is deeper so there is more to choose from...I am not saying either is greater than the other, I am just proud (being apart  of USA Hockey myself as a coach) that USA Hockey is developing better and better each year, and it won't be long until USA Hockey hsa it's own #1 overall.....oh wait. LOL!

Most of those players drafted out of USA leagues will end up playing in the NCAA (like Mike McKhee) even some kids drafted playing in Canadian leagues but not the CHL will end up playing in the NCAA like Brendan Smith who was drafted when he played for the Toronto St. Michael's but went on to play for Wisconsin for 3 years before beginning his professional career.



#45 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:59 PM

I'm sure "hopefully" more people on this website can name more CHL players that have won something compared to any NCAA players. But yet again D-I hockey is better than the CHL? LOLOL.

 

Honestly not within the last ten years the only 2 good NCAA players I can think of are Ed Belfour and Chris Chelios.



#46 Johnz96

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:01 PM

Again scoring more has nothing to do with how good the hockey is. 

They score a LOT more because the competition is weaker, because they are much younger.

What you said would make since if there was a lot GPG (goals per game) in the CHL but there isn't.



#47 evilmrt

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:03 PM

Yeah I noticed all the USA HS and others, sure. Its good to see, but the numbers are still lower than they should be. I think part of the problem is that NCAA doesn't co-operate with the NHL like the CHL does: the system where they have tryouts and the 9 game stints before being sent back down. Yes yes its all about academics, but every major university has online programs, for example. They could make it work if they wanted to, and then the NCAA would be a true rival to the CHL. 

 

you are only couting the NCAA though...of all the players taken, Like the CHL had 112 sure, but the USA Leagues had 57 drafted, yes only 9 of which were NCAA, which means our U18 player developement is getting better and better and is really, not that far behind the CHL teens... In the end it's not about quantity, but quality and you can draft 120 CHL players where 40 may get some NHL time, but of those 57 USA program kids, you may get 25 with some NHL time,  because they only take the best of the best from our leagues and more from the CHL, yes because the CHL is deeper so there is more to choose from...I am not saying either is greater than the other, I am just proud (being apart  of USA Hockey myself as a coach) that USA Hockey is developing better and better each year, and it won't be long until USA Hockey hsa it's own #1 overall.....oh wait. LOL!



#48 number9

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:05 PM

They score a LOT more because the competition is weaker, because they are much younger.

What you said would make since if there was a lot GPG (goals per game) in the CHL but there isn't.

 

Yours would make sense, but your assuming they score more because the competition is weaker, and your assuming the competition is weaker because they're younger. Totally different games, and CHL is way more similar to pro hockey



#49 Johnz96

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:05 PM

It's funny you keep avoiding the no touch icing call and no fighting in the NCAA. Yet with the stats you show OMG WITH GOING FROM COLLEGE TO THE MAJOR JUNIORS THE SCORING INCREASES. It doesn't matter whatever Major Junior team it is they play more games. The competition is weaker. Ok. I'll go along with you on that.

 

Any case against the Great One or Mario compared to any NCAA player? Oh wait don't answer that.

The CHL provides more talent for the NHL but they are not as far along in their development (as hockey players or people for that matter) as college players because they are so much younger.



#50 number9

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:08 PM

The CHL provides more talent for the NHL but they are not as far along in their development (as hockey players or people for that matter) as college players because they are so much younger.

 

I would argue a lot of those younger CHL'ers are farther along in their development than most older NCAA players despite the fact that they are younger



#51 Johnz96

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:10 PM

Yours would make sense, but your assuming they score more because the competition is weaker, and your assuming the competition is weaker because they're younger. Totally different games, and CHL is way more similar to pro hockey

The CHL and D-1 hockey score about the same amount of GPG (goals per game). !7 yr old jr players are going to be bigger faster, stronger, smarter and  much better hockey players when they are 21. 21 yr old NCAA players are bigger, faster stronger smarter and much better hockey players than they were when they were 17.



#52 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:11 PM

The CHL provides more talent for the NHL but they are not as far along in their development (as hockey players or people for that matter) as college players because they are so much younger.

 

Can one of the mods ban him? :D



#53 Johnz96

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:13 PM

I would argue a lot of those younger CHL'ers are farther along in their development than most older NCAA players despite the fact that they are younger

If what you say is true the next player who goes to the CHL from college shouldn't score a lot more in a league in which scoring is similar. If what you say is true every player that went from D-1 to the CHL shouldn't score so much more in a league in which scoring is similar (GPG) to the one that they came from


Edited by Johnz96, 29 January 2013 - 11:14 PM.


#54 number9

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:17 PM

If what you say is true the next player who goes to the CHL from college shouldn't score a lot more in a league in which scoring is similar. If what you say is true every player that went from D-1 to the CHL shouldn't score so much more in a league in which scoring is similar (GPG) to the one that they came from

 

Again, I would love for you to prove that that is true.



#55 Johnz96

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:23 PM

Again, I would love for you to prove that that is true.

There haven't been that many. These are the 4 that come to mind.

Another example is Jamie Olesiak who scored 13 in 38 (.34 PPG) games for Northeastern in 10-11 and then scored 32 points in 58(.55 PPG) games split between Niagara Thunder and Saginaw Spirit in 11-12. A 61% increase in PPG

Show me one that has gone from the D-1 to the CHL that hasn't scored at a much higher clip in jr.


Edited by Johnz96, 29 January 2013 - 11:33 PM.


#56 Johnz96

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:37 PM

It's funny you keep avoiding the no touch icing call and no fighting in the NCAA. Yet with the stats you show OMG WITH GOING FROM COLLEGE TO THE MAJOR JUNIORS THE SCORING INCREASES. It doesn't matter whatever Major Junior team it is they play more games. The competition is weaker. Ok. I'll go along with you on that.

 

Any case against the Great One or Mario compared to any NCAA player? Oh wait don't answer that.

Their points per game increases, that means how many points they average for every game played, so the number of games played is irrelevant.

If a player plays 20 games and and scores 20 points that's a lot more points than a player that played 10 games and scored 11 points but the player that played 10 games had a higher PPG. Thats what I am talking about. Not only do their points increase a lot but more importantly their PPG increases a lot.



#57 number9

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:38 PM

Come to think of it I can't think of any who move from the CHL to the NCAA, anybody know of any?

When a player moves from the NCAA to the CHL they are a year better than they were in the NCAA.

 

Perhaps the older players play better defensively especially with the no fighting and icing

 

College has gotten better but still does not produce the quantity and caliber of the CHL



#58 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:47 PM

Their points per game increases, that means how many points they average for every game played, so the number of games played is irrelevant.

If a player plays 20 games and and scores 20 points that's a lot more points than a player that played 10 games and scored 11 points but the player that played 10 games had a higher PPG. Thats what I am talking about. Not only do their points increase a lot but more importantly their PPG increases a lot.

 

No s*** sherlock? Tell me what teams in any CHL you watch? Or let alone any NCAA D-I teams you watch?

 

Please.

 

And for that matter on both questions of both leagues let's say have you watched of the last 20 years? Just curious.



#59 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

Can one of the mods ban him? :D

 

Not really.  What he's saying isn't against forum rules.  Your last couple posts however, have been (I deleted one). 

 

You guys can disagree without the insults. 



#60 Johnz96

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:49 PM

Come to think of it I can't think of any who move from the CHL to the NCAA, anybody know of any?

When a player moves from the NCAA to the CHL they are a year better than they were in the NCAA.

 

Perhaps the older players play better defensively especially with the no fighting and icing

 

College has gotten better but still does not produce the quantity and caliber of the CHL

Because CHL players get payed the NCAA considers them professional and  doesn't allow it







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