Finding a dance partner and rebuilding our team.

[Richdg 267]

While we need to rebuild, it is not a 23 man effort that is needed. we need to find 2-4 guys each year for the next 2-3 years to reload. Over the next 2.5 seasons, 3 drafts, and 3 FA periods, there are plenty of players that deals could be worked out for. Including RFA's.

To me our biggest needs are RH Dmen and in general more size, speed, skill, and strength (mental, emotional, and physical).

First the dance partners. As of today 3 teams come to mind: The LA Kings, the NY rangers, and the NJ Devils. All have the parts we need/want and have needs that we can fill. For example, the Rangers are a donut team. Good D, tons of big young wings, and weak at C. Many of the Dmen are RH to boot!

The devils are once again in their yearly search for O. They have plenty of Dman as well. The Kings on the other hand are in need of D-Greene out for the year and Mitchell out for several more weeks.

There is of course one RFA out there right now that we should make a run at: Ryan O'Reilly. he is unsigned with the Avs. There were some rumors about a current player and a 2nd round pick and the avs would move him. Now i have no idea if that is true or not, but if it is make the move! He is already a 60 point per year guy and is only going to get better. At 6-1/200 he isn't small either.

More on this later.

[Richdg 267]

Now before I would think about making a deal, i would lay out our lines-with 2 small changes.

1st: bert-dat-fil that line has 1 big guy, and 2 great play makers. it is missing a good RH shot.

2nd: the Swed line: franzen-Z-sammy. 2 bigger guys-even if they don't play like it, a good play maker and a good RH shot.

3rd line: we have lacked O from our 3rd line for several years. So let's fix it: Nyquist-Abby-brunner. good play maker, good RH shooter, and Abby for some size and grit.

4th line: Sheahan (if his drinking issues are behind him)-Helm-TooToo. Speed and grit with some size and toughness to it. of course everyone has to be healthy.

The rest of our forwards-doesn't really matter. Cleary and Miller are UFA's this summer, eaves is a journeyman, Emmerton and Mursak are fillers at best.

The D.

1st pair: kronwall and Ericsson

2nd pair: Smith and Lashoff

3rd pair: Kindl and Q.

Huskins and White are UFA's this summer and Colo is always hurt. The bid issue here is, only White is a RH shot.

Now, where do we upgrade? On the top 2 lines we need 4 new forwards over the next 2 years. Of those 6 guys only Filppula is under 30, and he is a UFA this summer. On D we need at least 2 RH shooting Dmen to balance things out.Of our current D I would keep either Kronwall or ericsson-not both, Smith, Lashoff, and Kindl.

So here is the list of players/positions to move or be replaced.

Bert. At 37 he has very little if any trade value. we might be able to get a low round draft pick froma PO bound team.

Datsyuk. he has a lot of trade value. he is already 34 and a UFA after next season.

Filppula. 28, good puck handler and a UFA this summer. Could have some value in trade, or resign him as to be our second line C.

Franzen. No value and bad long term contract. Buy him out.

Zetterberg. The new captian. I would hold on to him unless completely overwhelmed by a trade offer.

sammy. 36 and sign for another year with a NTC. Boy was this a bad idea.

That means 3 of the 6 stay for another year at least. Maybe 4 stay. This leaves holes on the wings. Z and Fil at C, with sammy and maybe bert as 2 of the 4 wingers.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Richdg

[Richdg 267]

Now the D. We have several good young Dmen. But all are LH shots. It does matter that you have RH shots. This becomes really important on the PP when you need the one timer from the point. This is part of why Sammy and Brunner are playing there. Smith, Lashoff, Kindl and Kronwall would be a good 4 to build off of. There is good size, puck handling, and enough grit there to be good. Now we need to find 2, prefer 3 RH shooters to go along with them. Only Kronwall is over 30, but he is signed through the 2019 season. That leaves Ericsson-28 and a UFA after next season as possible trade bait. Kronwall might get us more, but he has a full NTC for 3 more seasons, and then can only go to 10 teams that he provides a list for. Colo is signed for one more year and can sit on the bench, and we can hope he doesn't get hurt. White and Huskins are UFA's after the season, so there are spots open.

Cap.

We currently have about 19 million to spend this summer. But we should resign Filppula and have to resign Howard. *Edit* I forgot brunner. We need to resign him as well. between the 3 of them we are most likely going to shell out 14-16 million. Leaving 3-6 million to spend to resign our RFA's and sign UFA's. if we buyout Frnazen and Q, which we should we can add another 7.8 million to spend. That means after resigning Fil and Howie we have 11-14 million to use on UFA's. Of course after next year, we have more money to spend and a couple more holes to fill. Bert and sammy are both gone so is Colo, freeing up another 7.5 million. We also have to keep in mind that for the 2014/2015 season the cap is rumored to go down to 62 million. Right now we don't have enough money to sign 1 big name UFA without buying out some guys and/or making some trades to move salary.

Now, after we let most of our UFA's walk, and we have bought out Franzen and Q, and we have resigned Fil, brunner, and Howie, we are left with 2 holes at the F positions, and 2 holes on the D. But we have 11-14 million to spend and 2 guys to trade: Datsyuk and Ericsson. of course moving Dat and E also frees up additional cash to spend on UFA's down the road.

So, what UFA's are going to be out there? Who knows. as of today Getzlef, Perry, Horton, Clarkson, and Clowe are pending. How many make it and walk? Not sure. all of them could be helpfull to our retooling efforts. But, as we saw last year, when it comes to free agency, there are no sure things.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Richdg

[number9 3,297]

Is this thread your personal blog? Before the ranting continues you might wanna check out the fact that we already have a top 10 ranked prospect pool http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-rankings/

[Richdg 267]

So, now what do I see as the 2013/2014 RW's?

1st line: hole-Z-Sammy

2nd line: Bert-Fil-hole

3rd line: Nyquist-Abby-Brunner

4th line: Sheahan-Helm-TooToo

spare forwards: Emmerton and Mursak

The D:

1st pair: Kronwall-hole

2nd pair: Smith-hole

3rd pair: lashoff-kindl

7th D: colo

G: Howard and Gus

Leaving datsyuk and ericsson as trade bait and 11-14 million to spend on UFA's.

The 2014/2015 team looks like this:

1st: hole-Z-hole

2nd: hole-Fil-hole

3rd: Nyquist-abby-Brunner

4th: Sheahan-Helm-TooToo

spare forwards: Emmerton and Mursak

D:

1st: Kronwall-hole

2nd: Smith-hole

3rd: lashoff-hole

7th D: Kindl

Goalies are the same. maybe 7 million to spend, cap is rumored to be going down to 62 million for this season.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Richdg

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

I skimmed considering the source, and as soon as I saw "Datsyuk" and "Trade Bait" together in the same sentence I loled in displeasure and decided to stop reading.

This, as many posted a lot lately, I put under the category of "NHL 13 Scenario" because something this dramatic occurring in the real NHL is an impossibility.

And let's cut the "Buyout Franzen" nonsense that's not happening either.

[Richdg 267]

Now, I took the long way through the team. There is was a reason(s) for it. First, I am not one that goes around and says "trade him" everytime someone makes a mistake. Nor do I beleive everyone is a HOFer just becasue they had 1 or 2 good games. There is far more to things than that. So let's talk about how we can fill the holes on the team.

For the 2013/2014 season I see 4 holes. 2 forwards and 2 Dmen. Some may argue for keeping Datsyuk and Ericsson. if we do, we have 2 fewer holes that is true. But at that point we have nothing to trade of value. There are no other combinations of player/players that we can put together, without creating more holes and get something back in return of value. Some also would argue draft and build through the draft. That is a good idea for 3 years down the road. I have already brought up the only close to NHL ready prospects we have. Smith, lashoff, sheahan, and nyquist are on the team. There is nothing else at GR or in our system ready and talented enough to be in Detroit next fall. So that really isn't an option. That only leaves 2 options left: trades and FA. So what happens if we hang onto Datsyuk and Ericsson, and none of the big name FA's sign with us? We still have 2 holes. Ok, keep Franzen. if we do that, we don't have enough money to go into the FA market in the first place. At this point we are talking about having the same team in 2013/2014 that we have now! I don't know about most of you, but that scares me.

Ok so we stand pat for one more year. hang onto Franzen, Datsyuk and Ericsson. That brings us to the summer of 2014 when Ericsson and datsyuk are both UFA's. Plus bert, sammy, and colo (good thing) all leave. Now we are faced with 3 holes in the forward line (assuming we still have franzen and missed the chance to buy him out) and 2 on the blue line. Ok fill from within! Sorry but it ain't happening. baring some great unforseen developments, there isn't going to be much ready to step in as top 6 forwards or top 4 Dmen for next season either. There just isn't much in terms of high skilled fully developed prospects in our system. yes i am sure there will be a pleasant surprise. But 5 of those? No going to happen.

Now for 2014 we still would have some money to spend on UFA's. Dat-6.7 million, Big E-3.2 million, Colo-2.5 million, Sammy-3 million, bert-2 million. That is about 15 million or so. A nice little sum to be sure. But again, we then find ourselves in a positions of hoping someone (s) choose to play for us. To try and fill 5 major needs all through FA is risky as hell. 1 hole per year-ok that makes sense. But 5 all at one time? No way. Well then resign datsyuk and Ericsson. Ok we could. That reduces the number of holes by 2, but it will also eat up almost all of the money for FA's. Does anyone expect either of those guys to come back for the same or less money? I don't. Datsyuk will get at least 7-if he has anytype of decent year next year, and if E also plays well he will get 5 million. That just ate up 12 of the 15, leaving about 3 million left to spend. Not enough to get any difference maker in FA.

The point of that is/was, we may not have a choice but to trade datsyuk and Ericsson as well as buyout Franzen and Q. If we do not do so, we are going to be stuck with the same basic team for 2.5 more seasons. Now if we do that, we will not become a 25 win team. we will stay in the 7th-10th spot in the western confernce each year. Just good enough to keep things interesting and maybe our playoff streak alive, but not good enough to draft the true difference makers available via the draft each year.

Now maybe we have a hidden gem or 2. Could be. No one knows how any of our prospects will turn out. They could all flame out or we could have some studs. For most it is far to early to really know one way or the other. But only trying to build via the draft is in many ways riskier than doing it through FA. At least with FA's you know they can produce. You have a resonable expectation of numbers and performence. With propects it is nothing more than hope. You can put together the worlds best development system, have the best scouts, and have great support, but none of that makes any prospect a sure thing.

So after Sheahan and Nyquist come up to stay, we may very well have a 2-4 year gap before the next wave of guys are ready. This is the price we are going to pay for all the trades we made to stay at the top for so long of a time. That was a good thing. But it is also the past.

All of that being said, it leads me to beleive we don't have much choice in what to do. We have to move datsyuk and ericsson, and we have to bugy out franzen and Q, while the chance to do so is still there.

The way I look at things that means we have 7 holes to fill between the next 2 off seasons. 4 this year and 3 next. If we can land 1 good FA each summer, that fills 2 holes leaving 5 to fill. Let's hope we have a surprise or 2 on the development side. That leaves 3 or 4 holes open, with 2 guys to trade.

One of the major advantages to trading a guy like datsyuk is, he is good enough to get 2 or 3 top line young players. Guys that have made it to the NHL and could be solid players if not stars in 2-3 years from now. Ericsson should be able to get at least 1 good young player, maybe 2. There also is one or 2 guys at GR that could be added to a package to improve things. We have 2 decent young goalies, that are largely blocked if Howard is resigned. Almquist could have some value and maybe tatar.

[djv19 63]

Is that you kenny? I thought we discussed drinking at work.

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

Is that you kenny? I thought we discussed drinking at work.

Be patient he's still typing out the 6th continuation of this post.

Datsyuk should and will retire in Detroit.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Be patient he's still typing out the 6th continuation of this post.

Datsyuk should and will retire in Detroit.

I would love to believe that to be true, but I have heard he wants to play his last year in the KHL, but I also heard he wants to retire at 40, so we may get 3 more years out of him

[Osgood4President 8]

I would love to believe that to be true, but I have heard he wants to play his last year in the KHL, but I also heard he wants to retire at 40, so we may get 3 more years out of him

methinks BlazeYoungblood meant that Dats would retire from the NHL in Detroit

[DSM 114]

My head hurts from reading all this NHL13 fantasy talk.

Buyout Quincey and Franzen? They would both certainly attract something in return from a trade before we would need to buy them out...

Do my eyes decieve me, or do I see Samuelsson on the 1st and Brunner on the 3rd line? Wow.

Edited January 29, 2013 by DSM

[Richdg 267]

My head hurts from reading all this NHL13 fantasy talk.

Buyout Quincey and Franzen? They would both certainly attract something in return from a trade before we would need to buy them out...

Quincey? No way. Franzen, very small chance. Which if anyone wants him, they can have him. Here is the thing about his bad contract. Even if he retires tomorrow, he is a cap hit for 8 more years. If we trade him or buy him out, no more cap hit. That is the only way to escape the 4 million per year cap hit.

Nice to see all the deep and insightfull posts. For those that advacate keeping datsyuk, franzen and the like, I poss you the question: how do we get better then? By keeping those contracts, and resigning the guys we should keep there isn't any money for FA's. There are also no other prospects ready in the system to replace what we lose. Don't let your fandom blind you to the realities we face.

last thing, no need to be rude. if you don't like what I think, that is fine. No need to be immature about it.

[DSM 114]

Quincey? No way. Franzen, very small chance. Which if anyone wants him, they can have him. Here is the thing about his bad contract. Even if he retires tomorrow, he is a cap hit for 8 more years. If we trade him or buy him out, no more cap hit. That is the only way to escape the 4 million per year cap hit.

Nice to see all the deep and insightfull posts. For those that advacate keeping datsyuk, franzen and the like, I poss you the question: how do we get better then? By keeping those contracts, and resigning the guys we should keep there isn't any money for FA's. There are also no other prospects ready in the system to replace what we lose. Don't let your fandom blind you to the realities we face.

last thing, no need to be rude. if you don't like what I think, that is fine. No need to be immature about it.

Umm. Sorry but both are Proven NHL players than can play in the top 6 of a lot of teams offense (Franzen) and top 4 of a lot of teams defense (Quincey). Quincey is a UFA after next season and is low risk, I'm sure a lot of teams would take a chance on him even though he is having a hard time in Detroit. Franzen has scored at a 20-30 goal a season pace the last 5 seasons and his cap hit isn't exactly huge. I'm sure a lot of teams would be glad to add him to their team for the right price.

We do have some good prospects in the system. Lashoff will most likely be a regular next season. Andersson, Tatar and Nyquist are all ready for shots at regular duty. Ferraro and Sheahan are both a couple years from competing for a spot. Mrazek is putting up good numbers in the net in the AHL.

The team is fine. When everyone (or most everyone) is healthy and the PP picks up, this team will be competitive. No need for a full scale rebuild that calls for dumping off just about everyone in the Red Wings Top 6 forwards...

A rebuild of the magnitude you are suggesting would give an XBOX360 the red ring of death if done in a season on NHL13...

Edited January 29, 2013 by DSM

[Richdg 267]

Umm. Sorry but both are Proven NHL players than can play in the top 6 of a lot of teams offense (Franzen) and top 4 of a lot of teams defense (Quincey). Quincey is a UFA after next season and is low risk, I'm sure a lot of teams would take a chance on him even though he is having a hard time in Detroit. Franzen has scored at a 20-30 goal a season pace the last 5 seasons and his cap hit isn't exactly huge. I'm sure a lot of teams would be glad to add him to their team for the right price.

We do have some good prospects in the system. Lashoff will most likely be a regular next season. Andersson, Tatar and Nyquist are all ready for shots at regular duty. Ferraro and Sheahan are both a couple years from competing for a spot. Mrazek is putting up good numbers in the net in the AHL.

The team is fine. When everyone (or most everyone) is healthy and the PP picks up, this team will be competitive. No need for a full scale rebuild that calls for dumping off just about everyone in the Red Wings Top 6 forwards...

A rebuild of the magnitude you are suggesting would give an XBOX360 the red ring of death if done in a season on NHL13...

Ok, clearly you didn't read what I posted. I already have included lashoof, Sheahan, and Nyquist on the team. Ferraro is nothing, Andersson is a 12th through 14th F at best, and tatar is nothing more than a AHL forward. None of those guys is capable of posting a 40 point season in the NHL. Not one. You amy beleive otherwise, which is fine. But on this one I am right. So again, there is nothing to bring up. Cleary and Miller are UFA's. Emmerton and Mursak are RFA IIRC. That could be 4 more holes already, and we have done nothing to improve the team. At best it is a net neutral thing. But go sign UFA's. Again, with what money. We have 19 million to spend this off season, without trades or buyouts. But we also have to resign Howard 5-6 million, Filppula 5-6 million, and Brunner 3 million +. That basicly wipes out our entire FA budget. Now we could keep datsyuk and let Filppula walk. But why would you do that? Fil put up equal numbers to dat and is 6 years younger. Might be able to gt him cheaper as well. If you let Fil walk, then we get nothing. At least dat brings 2-3 NHL ready players back.

BTW, the 29 other teams in the NHL had a chance to sign Q last summer, and all passed on him. Now you think some teamis willing to give up something to get him? Very unlikely. But again, if we can trade him, DO IT! I would rather trade guys than cut them. We get zero from a cut. I don't care if we pick up just 7th rd picks. There is still a chance with those.

[DSM 114]

Ok, clearly you didn't read what I posted. I already have included lashoof, Sheahan, and Nyquist on the team. Ferraro is nothing, Andersson is a 12th through 14th F at best, and tatar is nothing more than a AHL forward. None of those guys is capable of posting a 40 point season in the NHL. Not one. You amy beleive otherwise, which is fine. But on this one I am right. So again, there is nothing to bring up. Cleary and Miller are UFA's. Emmerton and Mursak are RFA IIRC. That could be 4 more holes already, and we have done nothing to improve the team. At best it is a net neutral thing. But go sign UFA's. Again, with what money. We have 19 million to spend this off season, without trades or buyouts. But we also have to resign Howard 5-6 million, Filppula 5-6 million, and Brunner 3 million +. That basicly wipes out our entire FA budget. Now we could keep datsyuk and let Filppula walk. But why would you do that? Fil put up equal numbers to dat and is 6 years younger. Might be able to gt him cheaper as well. If you let Fil walk, then we get nothing. At least dat brings 2-3 NHL ready players back.

BTW, the 29 other teams in the NHL had a chance to sign Q last summer, and all passed on him. Now you think some teamis willing to give up something to get him? Very unlikely. But again, if we can trade him, DO IT! I would rather trade guys than cut them. We get zero from a cut. I don't care if we pick up just 7th rd picks. There is still a chance with those.

You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?

1st off, I made no mention of where prospects fit in the line up, I merely responded to your notion that we had no quality prospects. Also, where is your speculation on Ferraro, Andersson and Tatar from? I'm not saying that I know where they will end up, but Ferraro has made huge imporvement in just his 2nd AHL season, and Tatar and Andersson are near point per game performers in the AHL... All three are performing better than Sheahan, who you have included in your cute NHL13 fantasy.

Secondly, Quincey was an RFA this past summer. Do I need to explain to you what the difference is between a UFA and an RFA? 29 teams did not have the chance sign him, the Red WIngs held his rights. And before you blab about offer sheets, understand that they only come around for real CLUTCH players like top line forwards and top pairing dmen. For what Detroit signed him for, a team would've had to sacrifice a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick for him. I'm sure a lot of teams wouldn't have wanted to give up their first three picks in the next draft.

Lastly... Have you watched any games so far this season? Datsyuk has been this teams best forward. You want to trade him out of fear of losing Filppula via UFA? It's a good thing you don't have Ken Hollands job... For one thing, there's no way Filppula gets 5-6mil if the Red Wings resign him...

SMH...

[Richdg 267]

You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?

1st off, I made no mention of where prospects fit in the line up, I merely responded to your notion that we had no quality prospects. Also, where is your speculation on Ferraro, Andersson and Tatar from? I'm not saying that I know where they will end up, but Ferraro has made huge imporvement in just his 2nd AHL season, and Tatar and Andersson are near point per game performers in the AHL... All three are performing better than Sheahan, who you have included in your cute NHL13 fantasy.

Secondly, Quincey was an RFA this past summer. Do I need to explain to you what the difference is between a UFA and an RFA? 29 teams did not have the chance sign him, the Red WIngs held his rights. And before you blab about offer sheets, understand that they only come around for real CLUTCH players like top line forwards and top pairing dmen. For what Detroit signed him for, a team would've had to sacrifice a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick for him. I'm sure a lot of teams wouldn't have wanted to give up their first three picks in the next draft.

Lastly... Have you watched any games so far this season? Datsyuk has been this teams best forward. You want to trade him out of fear of losing Filppula via UFA? It's a good thing you don't have Ken Hollands job... For one thing, there's no way Filppula gets 5-6mil if the Red Wings resign him...

SMH...

Fill isn't going to get 5-6 million per year? Are you nuts? Q just got 3.5 million! Hell he makes 4 million now. if brunner keeps playing like he has, he will go well above 3 million. So again, there is no FA money to spend.

yes dats is playing well. That is why he has value. That is why he can get you 2-3 nhl ready players. Which btw we need. Between now and the end of next season the following are all UFA's: bert, Sammy, filppula, miller, cleary, Ericsson, Huskins, Brunner, DATSYUK, White, Quincey, Colavacio, Eaves, and Howard. Emmerton, Mursak, Smith, Kindl, and Lashoff are all RFA's. We don't have enough money to reisgn them all as it is. Some need to go anyway. Over the next 1.5 years the numbers at GR that are ready to play just are not there. New blood is needed asap. if you can't see this, I am sorry you are blind.

As for guys producing or not producing at GR, please don't waste our time quoting their numbers. It means nothing. Yes a guy like tatar can score in the AHL. he will not be able to in the NHL. To small, to slow, and isn't that skilled. yes i watch the Griffins play. several times per year. Just to compare, Emmerton adn Mursak scored at GR as well. How are they doing in the NHL? Abby scored at a pretty good clip as well. There are a few checkers like Sheahan that can fill the 3rd/4th lines. But that is all we have ready. There are no big time scorers coming anytime soon. That is the problem. Everyone is assuming that datsyuk will resign after nxt season and continue to produce. What if he don't? we are screwed. same with Howard this year. he is in the drivers seat. he could push for 7+ million and we have to pay it. There is nothign in the system to replace him, and all UFA's are far worse than he is.

There are those that like to trot out the "chicken little" insult. But they are not facing the reality of what the RW's are facing. Kinda like last summer when so many were convinced that parise adn Sutar were coming here, because after all we are the Red Wings. Didn't work did it. So instead we get Colo-hurt yet again and sammy-hurt yet again. wasting another 5.5 million that could have been spent elsewhere. Yes tootoo is a nice pick up-still shocked the Holland signed him. But we could have done that move reguardless, and needed to.

[Adidarw 35]

As for the impossibility of some trades, I give you one name: Gretzky. Those arguments are invalid.

[Richdg 267]

Been busy the last few days, I am sure some are glad. but i would like to finish up my thoughts here. As of today, with the players we have and assuming everyone is healthy, the best possible lineup I can come up with is:

franzen-Z-sammy

bert-dat-Fil

Nyquist-Abby-brunner

Sheahan-helm-22

Kronwall-E

Smith-Q

Lashoff-kindl

Howard in the net.

Keeping Emmerton, Miller, Huskins, and Gus as the backups. Everyone else can go.

Now from here, I would do the following in order:

1. resign Howard-6 mill, Fil-5 mill, and brunner-3 mil. That pretty much uses up the full 64.3 million for next years cap. Leaving just enough to resign lashoff and Smith in the off season.

2. Get on the damn phone with Colorado. offer: Nyquist, McCollom, eaves, and our 1st in 2014 for Ryan O'Reilly. If they agree, YES!!!!!!! Then buy out Colavacio.

3. Once #2 is complete, now we talk to the NYR. Datsyuk and Almquist (spelling) for kreider, bickel, and sauer.

Once those 3 things are done we are looking at the following lineup for 2013/2014:

Franzen-Z-sammy

Kreider-Fil-Bert

Abby-O'reilly-brunner

Sheahan-Helm-22

emmerton and Andersson

Kronwall-E

Smith-Bickel

Lashoff-sauer

Huskins

Howard

Gus

That leaves us with a payroll of 60.3 million, and we have 4 million left over.

We also still have Quincey on the roster. try to move him for a 2013 draft pick, 3rd round is just fine. If we wish to free up a few more dollars to spend and go after a big name UFA, buyout either sammy-3 million of franzen-4 million. That would give us about 7 million to spend on 1 big name UFA.

Also you may have noticed we now have 2 RH Dmen to pair up with some of our guys. Great! We have a huge shortage of RH players in our organization.

back to the O'Reilly deal for a couple of thoughts. 1. he will be our number 1 C in a few years. Right now he can play on the 3rd line with zero pressure, and we once again actually have 3 good scoring lines. As for the why a 2014 1st, simple. The 2013 draft is beleived to be as deep if not deeper than the 2003 draft. The 2014 draft is weaker.

If we want another RH Dman, then we can move E in the off season. Then we would have 3 pairs of D, each with a LH and a RH shooter.

I will throw out a draft later. but right now i want to get as many picks as possible for the 2013 draft. if we can get anything out of: Miller, Cleary, Colavacio, sammy, and franzen, do it. The first 4 you might be able to get a 6th/7th round pick from a playoff bound team. Do so. Quincey might get you a 3rd, and franzen could get a 2nd/3rd. Move their contracts/salaries, and take the picks. I would love to walk into the draft with 1 1st, 1 2nd, 3 3rds, 2 4th, 1 5th, 1 6th, and 2 or 3 7ths. Use the 6th's and 7th's to move up in the 3rd, 4th, and/or 5th round.

As for the impossibility of some trades, I give you one name: Gretzky. Those arguments are invalid.

Bingo!

[Wingsfan72 198]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be "that guy", but....are you trolling? Are these actual scenarios that you think should happen? Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, I am genuinely curious because the things you propose are quite....out there.

I mean, you lost me at "...the best possible lineup I could come up with" with Sammy was on the 1st line while Brunner is on the third. What is the logic behind this? Brunner has been playing very well on the top 2 line this season, why would "the best you can come up with" have him suddenly get demoted to the third line?

As far as the trades go, I agree that Kenny needs to make a move or two- key words move or two. What you are suggesting is shaking up the entire lineup. I hate to break this to you, but these things don't happen in real life. The only situations in which a rebuild of the magnitude that you are proposing are if a team is bottom 5 of the league annually with no glimpse of hope for improvement, and GM mode in NHL13.

The Wings needs, IMO, a top pairing Dman and some scoring wingers for the bottom six. It would be nice if Kenny could get a top 6 scorer as well, but I think the other two needs should be addressed first. After that, you're looking at a playoff contending team, I think.

I wish Kenny would have signed Steve Sullivan instead of Sammy - the worst signing he made IMO.

Honestly, as far as trade-bait goes, I think everyone is expendable except for Dats, Z, and Brunner. Z and Dats for obvious reasons and Brunner because he is a young scoring (possibly cheap) winger. I used to have Kronner on that list, but honestly I don't think he can meet the expectations that have been put on him as our go-to Dman. That being said, I think he should only be moved if a top tier Dman is coming back in return.

This is my thinking process, and I have come to the conclusion that it is a good thing that neither of us are the Wings GM lol.

[puckbags 863]

Been busy the last few days, I am sure some are glad. but i would like to finish up my thoughts here. As of today, with the players we have and assuming everyone is healthy, the best possible lineup I can come up with is:

franzen-Z-sammy

bert-dat-Fil

Nyquist-Abby-brunner

Sheahan-helm-22

Kronwall-E

Smith-Q

Lashoff-kindl

Howard in the net.

Keeping Emmerton, Miller, Huskins, and Gus as the backups. Everyone else can go.

Now from here, I would do the following in order:

1. resign Howard-6 mill, Fil-5 mill, and brunner-3 mil. That pretty much uses up the full 64.3 million for next years cap. Leaving just enough to resign lashoff and Smith in the off season.

2. Get on the damn phone with Colorado. offer: Nyquist, McCollom, eaves, and our 1st in 2014 for Ryan O'Reilly. If they agree, YES!!!!!!! Then buy out Colavacio.

3. Once #2 is complete, now we talk to the NYR. Datsyuk and Almquist (spelling) for kreider, bickel, and sauer.

Once those 3 things are done we are looking at the following lineup for 2013/2014:

Franzen-Z-sammy

Kreider-Fil-Bert

Abby-O'reilly-brunner

Sheahan-Helm-22

emmerton and Andersson

Kronwall-E

Smith-Bickel

Lashoff-sauer

Huskins

Howard

Gus

That leaves us with a payroll of 60.3 million, and we have 4 million left over.

We also still have Quincey on the roster. try to move him for a 2013 draft pick, 3rd round is just fine. If we wish to free up a few more dollars to spend and go after a big name UFA, buyout either sammy-3 million of franzen-4 million. That would give us about 7 million to spend on 1 big name UFA.

Also you may have noticed we now have 2 RH Dmen to pair up with some of our guys. Great! We have a huge shortage of RH players in our organization.

back to the O'Reilly deal for a couple of thoughts. 1. he will be our number 1 C in a few years. Right now he can play on the 3rd line with zero pressure, and we once again actually have 3 good scoring lines. As for the why a 2014 1st, simple. The 2013 draft is beleived to be as deep if not deeper than the 2003 draft. The 2014 draft is weaker.

If we want another RH Dman, then we can move E in the off season. Then we would have 3 pairs of D, each with a LH and a RH shooter.

I will throw out a draft later. but right now i want to get as many picks as possible for the 2013 draft. if we can get anything out of: Miller, Cleary, Colavacio, sammy, and franzen, do it. The first 4 you might be able to get a 6th/7th round pick from a playoff bound team. Do so. Quincey might get you a 3rd, and franzen could get a 2nd/3rd. Move their contracts/salaries, and take the picks. I would love to walk into the draft with 1 1st, 1 2nd, 3 3rds, 2 4th, 1 5th, 1 6th, and 2 or 3 7ths. Use the 6th's and 7th's to move up in the 3rd, 4th, and/or 5th round.

Bingo!

You have to be on some kind of uppers. Holy crap.

You're like that person on FB who post's a status update and then is the first person to respond to their own update

Edited February 5, 2013 by puckbags

[Richdg 267]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be "that guy", but....are you trolling? Are these actual scenarios that you think should happen? Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, I am genuinely curious because the things you propose are quite....out there.

I mean, you lost me at "...the best possible lineup I could come up with" with Sammy was on the 1st line while Brunner is on the third. What is the logic behind this? Brunner has been playing very well on the top 2 line this season, why would "the best you can come up with" have him suddenly get demoted to the third line?

As far as the trades go, I agree that Kenny needs to make a move or two- key words move or two. What you are suggesting is shaking up the entire lineup. I hate to break this to you, but these things don't happen in real life. The only situations in which a rebuild of the magnitude that you are proposing are if a team is bottom 5 of the league annually with no glimpse of hope for improvement, and GM mode in NHL13.

The Wings needs, IMO, a top pairing Dman and some scoring wingers for the bottom six. It would be nice if Kenny could get a top 6 scorer as well, but I think the other two needs should be addressed first. After that, you're looking at a playoff contending team, I think.

I wish Kenny would have signed Steve Sullivan instead of Sammy - the worst signing he made IMO.

Honestly, as far as trade-bait goes, I think everyone is expendable except for Dats, Z, and Brunner. Z and Dats for obvious reasons and Brunner because he is a young scoring (possibly cheap) winger. I used to have Kronner on that list, but honestly I don't think he can meet the expectations that have been put on him as our go-to Dman. That being said, I think he should only be moved if a top tier Dman is coming back in return.

This is my thinking process, and I have come to the conclusion that it is a good thing that neither of us are the Wings GM lol.

Some things in your response. I only have 2 trades, the rest is mearly clearing out crap. Cleary and Miller are UFA's and gone 1 way or another after the season. mursak is a rfa and could be allowed to walk. Huskins is a UFA as well, but I would like to keep him. Fil, brunner, and Howard are all UFA's and should be resigned. So, like I said there are only 2 moves.

It still comes back to the same problem. if we want to get something of value, you have to give up something of value. Kronwall has a full NTC, Z is our captain, and Datsyuk. That is really all we have of value. The rest would only get draft picks or career AHL guys. So what about FA? well, if we resign Howard, fil and brunner, there isn't much money left to do it. Not to mention, there are no sure things in FA. Just because we want and offer Getzelf, or Perry, or Horton, or Clarkston etc.... Doesn't mean they will sign. See Sutar and Parise last year. It has been 5 or 6 years now since our last big name FA signing-Hossa.

You have to be on some kind of uppers. Holy crap.

You're like that person on FB who post's a status update and then is the first person to respond to their own update

yet you still have to post. Deep thoughts take time. You should try it sometime....lol

[wingedominance13 112]

Wow. Speechless at the effort it took to wrote that all down.

[DSM 114]

Wait, you included Thomas McCollum in a trade?

Oh boy...

[Richdg 267]

Ok draft time.... Thought about a new thread, but then the forum police complain about having to many threads on a forum. oddest thing I ever heard of. But whatever.

So let's look forward a few years. Lets say it in now August 1, 2018-5 seasons from now. We currently have only 3 players signed that long. Franzen-then 39, Z then 38, and Kronwall then 37. Between them they we be making 14 million per year or eating up 20% of or cap space, give our take a bit. we have several Dmen that should still be here and hopefully developed by then: Ericsson 34, Kindl 31, Smith 29, lashoof 28, Deleyser 9yes I think we sign him) 28, and De Haas 24, all LHed shots. From the right side the only legit long term prospect looks like Sproul 25. yes we have jensen 28, marchenko 26, and Nicastro 28, but I am not sold on any of them yet. That makes 8 guys that should be in the NHL producing, not including any future picks. not a bad group to be building from. Only 3 of the 8 over 30. 7 of the 8 6-2 or taller.

At g we should be set as well. Howard should still be around and playing well. he isn't a speed tender so should be performing at a high level. plus we have marzck (spelling). Howard will be in his early 30 and marz mid 20's.

Forwards is much more of a concern. We seem to have 2 types of forwards: small european skilled guys or larger NA checkers. Very few that can play a total game. by total game I am talking 25 goals, 60+ points, 80 PIM's that skates wel and plays D. Almost all of our forwards are also LHed. Only 5 in our entire system are RH: Hudon, Jarnkrok, frk, Callahan, and Pulkkinen.

looking at the potential forward group there are 10 guys that I see in the top 5 lines in detroit and top 2 in GR: Tvrdon, McKee (yes he is playing D in junior, but fits much better as a LW), Abdelkader, Andersson (maybe) Zetterberg if he has anything left, helm, Sheahan, Filppula, Frk, and callahan. Yes I am sure there will be 1 or 2 more that develop and make it, and some of the guys I listed will be gone: released, traded, get hurt, price themselves out of our range etc....

All that being said, we have a draft in June. Every site known to mankind has every player ranked in different spots. The deeper you go, the more range there is, so please don't waste the time saying playing so and so is ranked higher/lower than that. It varies greatly.

Here is what i would like to see, based on no trades and we finish in the middle of the pack.

1st round:

with the 18th pick the detroit Red wings take Valentin Zykov RW/C. 6-1/215.

2nd round:

with the 48th pick the DRW take: Mike McCarron RW 6-5/230.

3rd round:

with the 78th pick the DRW take: John Hayden C 6-3/210.

4th round:

with the blah blah blah: Jerret Smith D 6-2/200.

5th round:

Parker Reno D 6-2/200.

6th round:

Sergey Kuptsov LW 6-2/215.

7th round:

Jordan DeKort G 6-4/190.

Yes everyone of the skaters but Kuptsov is RHed.

This is also a very very dep draft. many scouts are talking as good if not better than 2003. That being said, anything we can do to pick up some extra 2nd and 3rd round picks only adds to the depth and talent, and competition for playing time. Those are good things. if I can spin off Franzen for an extra pick between 50 and 70, do it asap! Quincey for a pick between 80 and 100, DONE!

There is one other guy that i would target with those extra picks. Move into the bottom of the 1st if I have to to get him. That is Hudson Fasching C/RW 6-2/215 another RH shot.

If this was our draft we could then see a lineup in 2018 that looks like this:

Tvrdon 6-2/210 25-Zetterberg 5-11/190 38-Filppula 6-0/195 34

Kuptsov 6-2/215 23-Haydon 6-3/210 23-McCarron 6-5/230 23

McKee 6-5/230 25-Fasching 6-2/215 23-Zykov 6-2/215 23

Abdelkader 6-1/220 31-Helm 5-11/190 31-Sheahan 6-2/215 27

Andersson 6-2/210 and Callahan 6-0/200 27

Ericsson 6-4/220 34-Sproul 6-3/200 25

Smith 6-2/200 29-Lashoff 6-3/210 28

Dekeyser 6-3/200 28-Kindl 6-3/215 31

De Haas 6-4/210

Yes Kronwall could still be playing instead of Kindl.

Last thoughts on this. If we were so lucky as to actually draft some of these guys, spend our money here, get them signed and have them play in Toledo for 1.5 to 2 years, then GR for the same amount of time. get them playing on lines now and have them grow and develop together.

If by some chance of fate, we actually make either/both of the trades I mentioned above, now add in O'Rielly, Krieder, Bickle, and Sauer to this lineup, and we once again become a loaded team.

Now I realize this is just some crazy thoughts from a accused troll, but just imagine for a few minutes. There is some method to my madness. Yes i understand that Holland has some serious man love for small european fowards. Got it. But still, think a bit and dare to dream......