• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Richdg

Finding a dance partner and rebuilding our team.

Rate this topic

32 posts in this topic

  • Datsyuk should not and will not be traded..

Samuelsson should not and will not be on the first line...

Franzen's contract is too long, but its not a bad contract, you will not find many players who will produce the #'s he will for a lesser cap hit, the ones you do find will not be traded...

The Wings will not be getting any RFA's, any offer we make will be matched and Colorado won't trade O'Reilly unless they have no hope at all of re-signing him

NHL 13 isn't real life or a real life representation of how hockey management works....

Projecting the roster as far ahead as 2018 is a lesson in futility.

Wingsfan72 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Datsyuk should not and will not be traded..
  • Samuelsson should not and will not be on the first line...
  • Franzen's contract is too long, but its not a bad contract, you will not find many players who will produce the #'s he will for a lesser cap hit, the ones you do find will not be traded...
  • The Wings will not be getting any RFA's, any offer we make will be matched and Colorado won't trade O'Reilly unless they have no hope at all of re-signing him
  • NHL 13 isn't real life or a real life representation of how hockey management works....
  • Projecting the roster as far ahead as 2018 is a lesson in futility.

Futility you say? So every NHL, NBA, NFL, MLB, NCAA team is exercising futility? Every corporation in the world is just wasting their time? Every resposable household is just winging it, and hoping their is money for the kids to go to college or to retire someday? this is what is called startegic planning, and everyone, repeat everyone does it. It comes in many forms. a 1 year plan, 3 year plan, 5 year plan, 10 year plan, 20 year plan etc... In a day an age with a salary cap, it becomes even more important.

You also cleary didn't read and understand what I have said. i didn't say make an offer to an RFA, although if that chance arises, we should. I said make a trade for O'reilly. No, he doesn't look to be resigning with Col. and all the rumors say they are far apart. If we can deal for him, we should. can we? Who the hell knows. but again, that is what the GM is supposed to be doing. making calls and finding ways to get better.

As for the notion that datsyuk can't be traded, answer: gretzky. he was, so anyone can be. Without a major infusion of talent, young talent prefered, we will not win a SC with him here again. Now there are 3 ways you can pick up talent: draft-takes 3-5 years to be ready, UFA's very expensive and is a total crap shoot, and trades. That is it. Talent doesn't drop from the sky and magicaly appear. We have limited cap space, if we resign Filppula, Howard and Brunner, and limited high end pieces to move via trade. between NTC's, age, and bad contracts, That really only leaves datsyuk as a piece that can be moved for some young pieces. Like it or not, but it is true. Now will it happen? i wouldn't hold my breath. it would take some major balls to do it, and at this stage of his career, I don't see Holland being that bold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Futility you say? So every NHL, NBA, NFL, MLB, NCAA team is exercising futility? Every corporation in the world is just wasting their time? Every resposable household is just winging it, and hoping their is money for the kids to go to college or to retire someday? this is what is called startegic planning, and everyone, repeat everyone does it. It comes in many forms. a 1 year plan, 3 year plan, 5 year plan, 10 year plan, 20 year plan etc... In a day an age with a salary cap, it becomes even more important.

You also cleary didn't read and understand what I have said. i didn't say make an offer to an RFA, although if that chance arises, we should. I said make a trade for O'reilly. No, he doesn't look to be resigning with Col. and all the rumors say they are far apart. If we can deal for him, we should. can we? Who the hell knows. but again, that is what the GM is supposed to be doing. making calls and finding ways to get better.

As for the notion that datsyuk can't be traded, answer: gretzky. he was, so anyone can be. Without a major infusion of talent, young talent prefered, we will not win a SC with him here again. Now there are 3 ways you can pick up talent: draft-takes 3-5 years to be ready, UFA's very expensive and is a total crap shoot, and trades. That is it. Talent doesn't drop from the sky and magicaly appear. We have limited cap space, if we resign Filppula, Howard and Brunner, and limited high end pieces to move via trade. between NTC's, age, and bad contracts, That really only leaves datsyuk as a piece that can be moved for some young pieces. Like it or not, but it is true. Now will it happen? i wouldn't hold my breath. it would take some major balls to do it, and at this stage of his career, I don't see Holland being that bold.

Corporations and households aren't sports franchises so that comparison is as ridiculous as the idea of trading Pavel Datsyuk. Strategic Planning does not include making a fantasy roster out of guys that aren't even professional athletes yet. You can't possibly believe NCAA teams are projecting who will be on their team 5 years in advance, That would mean scouting athletes as young as 13-14 years old. Long term strategic planning for a pro sports team would involve planning around those signed into the year in question so the Wings 2018 Roster would have only 3 players on it, Zetterberg, Franzen and Kronwall. Outside of that it would be blank and it would be filled in as we got closer to 2018.

The Illitch family might have a 20 year plan for the team's finances, but there is no GM who has a roster plan for 20 years involving players who are toddlers or not even born yet. As I said...its a lesson in futitily. The cap also has no bearing on the plan that far ahead as it will change drastically between now and then...cap projections would be done year to year as would all roster decisions.

I know you said make a trade for O'Reilly, but Colorado isn't going to trade him unless he comes out and publicly says he'll never play for them again. Its also a bad idea because we'll have to sign him if we trade for him and his demands are over 5 million a year on a multi year deal.

I didn't say Datsyuk could not be traded...I said he should not and will not be traded. The Wings are not the Oilers and they aren't so far into debt that they need to trade their best player for cash to keep the team afloat. They show loyalty to those that have been loyal to them.

Your final paragraph is among the most ridiculous things I've ever read...you propose that the best way to get an infusion of talent to win another cup with Datsyuk on the roster is to trade Datsyuk for said talent.

Edited by FlashyG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Corporations and households aren't sports franchises so that comparison is as ridiculous as the idea of trading Pavel Datsyuk. Strategic Planning does not include making a fantasy roster out of guys that aren't even professional athletes yet. You can't possibly believe NCAA teams are projecting who will be on their team 5 years in advance, That would mean scouting athletes as young as 13-14 years old. Long term strategic planning for a pro sports team would involve planning around those signed into the year in question so the Wings 2018 Roster would have only 3 players on it, Zetterberg, Franzen and Kronwall. Outside of that it would be blank and it would be filled in as we got closer to 2018.

The Illitch family might have a 20 year plan for the team's finances, but there is no GM who has a roster plan for 20 years involving players who are toddlers or not even born yet. As I said...its a lesson in futitily. The cap also has no bearing on the plan that far ahead as it will change drastically between now and then...cap projections would be done year to year as would all roster decisions.

I know you said make a trade for O'Reilly, but Colorado isn't going to trade him unless he comes out and publicly says he'll never play for them again. Its also a bad idea because we'll have to sign him if we trade for him and his demands are over 5 million a year on a multi year deal.

I didn't say Datsyuk could not be traded...I said he should not and will not be traded. The Wings are not the Oilers and they aren't so far into debt that they need to trade their best player for cash to keep the team afloat. They show loyalty to those that have been loyal to them.

Your final paragraph is among the most ridiculous things I've ever read...you propose that the best way to get an infusion of talent to win another cup with Datsyuk on the roster is to trade Datsyuk for said talent.

Um yes they do. in fact i have worked in 2 different universities athletic departments, and they do it all the time. You recruit guys today, for the purpose of them being starters 3, 4, 5 years done the road. That is how it works in every sport. You see if in the NFL every draft. Let's see.... My starting QB is 32, so teams go draft the next starter with the thought of them sitting the bench for 2-4 years and then taking over. GB did it with farve and rodgers. I guarente you that somewhere in RW HQ you can find a chart with dates on it that they project when each and every player needs to be replaced. That is how you develop a draft plan.

yes btw, kids that are 13-14 years old in HS are being recruited by major college programs already. junior hockey does it even younger, which in turn feeds college and pro hockey. This is the way of all sports teams around the world. In europe they have the club levels that feed the highest level. The U15, U17, and U19 teams in soccer, the U19 and U21 teams in rugby. Go look at all the swedish teams. they have teams for every age group, because it all fills/flows to the top like a funnel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

forgetting xavier and backman as d prospects. they go along with smith, lashoff, and sproul as guys who will likely pan out very well. If you add big E and Kronner to that list you have too many dmen. I think at this point we should try to either:

a) trade talented prospects for current talent under 30years old

b) sign some stop gaps on short deals and let our talent develop for a couple years

Option b means we won't be competing for another 2-3 years but we will likely be solid for the future.

Option a means we get guaranteed talent for likely overpayment and can compete earlier but we run into having no nhl ready talent in the pipe for another 5 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um yes they do. in fact i have worked in 2 different universities athletic departments, and they do it all the time. You recruit guys today, for the purpose of them being starters 3, 4, 5 years done the road. That is how it works in every sport. You see if in the NFL every draft. Let's see.... My starting QB is 32, so teams go draft the next starter with the thought of them sitting the bench for 2-4 years and then taking over. GB did it with farve and rodgers. I guarente you that somewhere in RW HQ you can find a chart with dates on it that they project when each and every player needs to be replaced. That is how you develop a draft plan.

yes btw, kids that are 13-14 years old in HS are being recruited by major college programs already. junior hockey does it even younger, which in turn feeds college and pro hockey. This is the way of all sports teams around the world. In europe they have the club levels that feed the highest level. The U15, U17, and U19 teams in soccer, the U19 and U21 teams in rugby. Go look at all the swedish teams. they have teams for every age group, because it all fills/flows to the top like a funnel.

You could be right when it comes to the NCAA, I don't have much knowledge when it comes to US college recruiting.

There is a big difference between what NFL teams like Green Bay did and what you were doing though, The Packers drafted Rodgers then put him on their depth chart and estimated he'd be a starter in a couple years. They didn't have him on their depth chart as their future quarterback 5 years earlier when he was playing quarterback in high school, nor did they while he was starring at Cal.

Teams project when someone might retire, and will often plan to fill that spot via the draft, but while they may have several prospects in mind to take that spot they wouldn't bother slotting them into their projected line-ups until they know if he's even available to them in the draft.

Speculating what an entire roster will look like 5 years from now is futile because you have no idea how those players will develop, how many of them will even still be on the team, how high or low the cap will be, what prospects will be available at your draft positions, or what trades you'll be offered etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could be right when it comes to the NCAA, I don't have much knowledge when it comes to US college recruiting.

There is a big difference between what NFL teams like Green Bay did and what you were doing though, The Packers drafted Rodgers then put him on their depth chart and estimated he'd be a starter in a couple years. They didn't have him on their depth chart as their future quarterback 5 years earlier when he was playing quarterback in high school, nor did they while he was starring at Cal.

Teams project when someone might retire, and will often plan to fill that spot via the draft, but while they may have several prospects in mind to take that spot they wouldn't bother slotting them into their projected line-ups until they know if he's even available to them in the draft.

Speculating what an entire roster will look like 5 years from now is futile because you have no idea how those players will develop, how many of them will even still be on the team, how high or low the cap will be, what prospects will be available at your draft positions, or what trades you'll be offered etc.

A couple of things. If I come across as crass once in a while sorry, no offense meant. Second, there is no difference in practice. The NFL doesn't have a minor league system, so their prospects sit the bench on the big club. But every other sport brings guys in, in the hope that some point down the line they are able to take a spot. Most of the time-with high level picks, they have a player in mind for replacement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0