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Kindl's future...


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#41 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

:ranting: Kindl Should have never been drafted, I have hated it from day 1.... Quincey was a waste of a solid 1st round draft pick and should have been let alone to sign somewhere else as an RFA, and we should have claimed whatever draft picks we would have received.... Kindl should be dealt either in a package or just for a pick, sames goes for Quincey. These are two transactions that I seriously question what the hell Holland was thinking. Lashoff and Huskins are playing way too solid to let Kindl come in, and Quincey is just taking up space until White gets back...of course Ericsson is just as enept as Quincey... IMO, Big E, Quincey and Kindl should all hit the dusty trail once our D is healed. I just wish Holland would pull his head out of his ass!

 

on a side note, I know arm-chair GM's are a dime a dozen, and if we really could do the job, we'd have the job, blah blah, but just because a lot of us don't have the credentials to land a NHL GM job, doesn't mean you or I don't know how to judge NHL talent.  If I had gone to College for whatever I had to in order to land a GM job, I guarantee I couldn't do too much worse than a few guys already in that job....and I don't even own a copy of NHL13 or 12 or 11 or 10, etc.....never owned one...I believe a good 25% (at least) of this forum alone are a better judge of NHL talent than Ken Holland or his scouts...and that is a serious statement....


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#42 dat's sick

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:49 PM

I think it's been a long time since Kindl looked really bad, but he's also not really a guy that has done much to impress. 

 

There may be potential in him though and I absolutely think giving him a good, long look right now is the right thing. Lashoff has been good but let's not go overboard, it's not like he's that invaluable to our team that we can't afford even one game without him. 



#43 kipwinger

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

:ranting: Kindl Should have never been drafted, I have hated it from day 1.... Quincey was a waste of a solid 1st round draft pick and should have been let alone to sign somewhere else as an RFA, and we should have claimed whatever draft picks we would have received.... Kindl should be dealt either in a package or just for a pick, sames goes for Quincey. These are two transactions that I seriously question what the hell Holland was thinking. Lashoff and Huskins are playing way too solid to let Kindl come in, and Quincey is just taking up space until White gets back...of course Ericsson is just as enept as Quincey... IMO, Big E, Quincey and Kindl should all hit the dusty trail once our D is healed. I just wish Holland would pull his head out of his ass!

 

on a side note, I know arm-chair GM's are a dime a dozen, and if we really could do the job, we'd have the job, blah blah, but just because a lot of us don't have the credentials to land a NHL GM job, doesn't mean you or I don't know how to judge NHL talent.  If I had gone to College for whatever I had to in order to land a GM job, I guarantee I couldn't do too much worse than a few guys already in that job....and I don't even own a copy of NHL13 or 12 or 11 or 10, etc.....never owned one...I believe a good 25% (at least) of this forum alone are a better judge of NHL talent than Ken Holland or his scouts...and that is a serious statement....

 

 

You seriously question what Holland was thinking huh?  That's funny, because in the thread "Kyle Quincey traded to Detroit in 3 team trade" on 21, Feb. 2012 at 5:13 you said, and I quote, "I may be in the minority here, but I think this is a nice deal. Kyle is a
big upgrade over Kindl, he is much better (maybe not tougher) than Commodore, he will be a nice addition here. Welcome back Kyle!"

 

For anyone interested that post can be found on page 54 of this forum. 

 

Not only did you know what he was thinking, but according to your own words it was a good move, and as an armchair GM you would have likely done the same thing. 

 

Enough with your castigating these moves already please.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#44 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:46 PM

You seriously question what Holland was thinking huh?  That's funny, because in the thread "Kyle Quincey traded to Detroit in 3 team trade" on 21, Feb. 2012 at 5:13 you said, and I quote, "I may be in the minority here, but I think this is a nice deal. Kyle is a
big upgrade over Kindl, he is much better (maybe not tougher) than Commodore, he will be a nice addition here. Welcome back Kyle!"

 

For anyone interested that post can be found on page 54 of this forum. 

 

Not only did you know what he was thinking, but according to your own words it was a good move, and as an armchair GM you would have likely done the same thing. 

 

Enough with your castigating these moves already please.

 

I questioned the RE-SIGNING of Quincey...not the trade back then.  Back then the trade seemed fine since he was a pretty good young defenseman, but when he took a dump here, he became more valuable to let go and receive a couple of picks in return.... If you read the post you above, I said Quincey should have never be RE-SIGNED and Kindl never drafted... Get yer head out of your ass and wipe your eyes...

 

and even you can admit that Q has turned out to be a waste of a 1st round pick. So if anyone is interested, and I doubt they are, find a quote of mine where I EVER supported  the Quincey re-signing, especially at $3.75M.  I may have said, ok, whatever when they signed him, but I never liked it nor will I ever. I was willing to give him a chance sure, but he is playing worse than he did last season when he came over...if he had re-signed at less than $3M....I still wouldn't like it, but I could swallow it better...him and E are the worst defenders making $3M or more...and Kindl will never crack the top 6. I knew that day 1, day ONE...if you want to go back to a 2005 draft thread I am sure you will find how muchI voiced my displeasure...

 

edit: Oh, and enough with your trying to pretend you are happy with this team. If you are happy with this team, I seriously question your judge of talent...


Edited by LeftWinger, 29 January 2013 - 06:56 PM.

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#45 Carman

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:49 PM

There isn't a reason Quincey shouldn't work out. He's played very well elsewhere. You aren't just going to let go the defenseman you spent a 1st round pick on after like 30 games. Especially when you're a team in need of defenseman.

 

Now obviously the move hasn't worked out, but it's still early in Quincey's career, wing's have invested too much, and need him to play to his potential.


Edited by Carman, 29 January 2013 - 06:51 PM.


#46 Buppy

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:04 PM

I questioned the RE-SIGNING of Quincey...not the trade back then.  Back then the trade seemed fine since he was a pretty good young defenseman, but when he took a dump here, he became more valuable to let go and receive a couple of picks in return.... If you read the post you above, I said Quincey should have never be RE-SIGNED and Kindl never drafted... Get yer head out of your ass and wipe your eyes...

Your premise is flawed. Quincey had a few days to receive offers from others teams (he didn't get any, AFAIK), then he filed for arbitration.

 

The options were either sign him or let him go for nothing. Or trade, but that option is still there.



#47 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

Your premise is flawed. Quincey had a few days to receive offers from others teams (he didn't get any, AFAIK), then he filed for arbitration.

 

The options were either sign him or let him go for nothing. Or trade, but that option is still there.

 

That is fine. I was just trying to say I was questioning the re-signing of Q. I understand it was a business deal and since Holland did blow a 1st on him, I am sure he is going to give him every chance in the world to become that player...and you are probably right, he probably didn't get many if any offers from other teams...I think arbitration is BS, it just forces the teams hand into siging you are cutting you. Buy, hey, I guess that is why they are Restricted and not Unrestricted...



There isn't a reason Quincey shouldn't work out. He's played very well elsewhere. You aren't just going to let go the defenseman you spent a 1st round pick on after like 30 games. Especially when you're a team in need of defenseman.

 

Now obviously the move hasn't worked out, but it's still early in Quincey's career, wing's have invested too much, and need him to play to his potential.

I do agree with the business aspect.  Both he and Big E were given big money (for their level of play) and Holland is going to  give them every chance....I just don't agree with the re-signings to begin with....


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#48 kipwinger

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:18 PM

I questioned the RE-SIGNING of Quincey...not the trade back then.  Back then the trade seemed fine since he was a pretty good young defenseman, but when he took a dump here, he became more valuable to let go and receive a couple of picks in return.... If you read the post you above, I said Quincey should have never be RE-SIGNED and Kindl never drafted... Get yer head out of your ass and wipe your eyes...

 

and even you can admit that Q has turned out to be a waste of a 1st round pick. So if anyone is interested, and I doubt they are, find a quote of mine where I EVER supported  the Quincey re-signing, especially at $3.75M.  I may have said, ok, whatever when they signed him, but I never liked it nor will I ever. I was willing to give him a chance sure, but he is playing worse than he did last season when he came over...if he had re-signed at less than $3M....I still wouldn't like it, but I could swallow it better...him and E are the worst defenders making $3M or more...and Kindl will never crack the top 6. I knew that day 1, day ONE...if you want to go back to a 2005 draft thread I am sure you will find how muchI voiced my displeasure...

 

edit: Oh, and enough with your trying to pretend you are happy with this team. If you are happy with this team, I seriously question your judge of talent...

 

 

You said Quincey should never have been re-signed huh?

 

From the thread "[Signed] Red Wings re-sign Quincey: 2 years, 7.55 million total" on page 22. 

 

"Blah...a little more than I would have liked, but whatever...if he
becomes one of our top 4, I guess the $250,000 overpayment will be
alright...At least we have 6 D now, wonder who the 7th will be, or are
we to expect a REAL top 4 defender and have Kindl be #7" - Leftwinger.

 

 

"A little more than I would have liked, but whatever...I guess the $250,000 overpayment will be alright".  Meanwhile, 6 months later "I said he should have never been re-signed!"

 

No you didn't say that, and the proof is in the pudding. 


Edited by kipwinger, 29 January 2013 - 07:24 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#49 LeftWinger

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:25 PM

You said Quincey should never have been re-signed huh?

 

From the thread "[Signed] Red Wings re-sign Quincey: 2 years, 7.55 million total" on page 22. 

 

"Blah...a little more than I would have liked, but whatever...if he
becomes one of our top 4, I guess the $250,000 overpayment will be
alright...At least we have 6 D now, wonder who the 7th will be, or are
we to expect a REAL top 4 defender and have Kindl be #7" - Leftwinger.

 

 

"A little more than I like, but whatever, not a big deal".  Meanwhile, 6 months later "I said he NEVER EVER should have been re-signed...EVER!"

 

Ok, and I said just a few minutes ago that when he re-signed, I may have been like, whatever and actaully that is what it looks like I said. I also said if he becomes one of our top 4 if will ok, but NEVER did I say "Oh boy I like this signing! Go Kyle Go!..." Just because I said, blah, whatever, if he works out then fine, doesn't mean I like the signing nor does it mean I think he should have been signed and if you look before the actual signing I was dead set against signing him, unless is was on the cheap... I think I may have said $3.5 at the VERY most only because Holland is Holland... keep digging, you'll never find a post where I wasever happy or jumping up and down about Quincey or Kindl....


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#50 kipwinger

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

Ok, and I said just a few minutes ago that when he re-signed, I may have been like, whatever and actaully that is what it looks like I said. I also said if he becomes one of our top 4 if will ok, but NEVER did I say "Oh boy I like this signing! Go Kyle Go!..." Just because I said, blah, whatever, if he works out then fine, doesn't mean I like the signing nor does it mean I think he should have been signed and if you look before the actual signing I was dead set against signing him, unless is was on the cheap... I think I may have said $3.5 at the VERY most only because Holland is Holland... keep digging, you'll never find a post where I wasever happy or jumping up and down about Quincey or Kindl....

 

How interesting, you can say that you're ok with something and then six months later say that you've been against it all along.  Neat trick.  Does that work on people usually or no?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#51 Dominator2005

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:50 PM

His future is with: "Battle of the Blades"
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#52 CrimsonFlame

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:58 PM

There isn't a reason Quincey shouldn't work out. He's played very well elsewhere. You aren't just going to let go the defenseman you spent a 1st round pick on after like 30 games. Especially when you're a team in need of defenseman.

 

Now obviously the move hasn't worked out, but it's still early in Quincey's career, wing's have invested too much, and need him to play to his potential.

Problem is, at some point you have to pull the plug, and preferably BEFORE leaving him in has significant consequences.  We could try and ride out the Q train for another 20 or so games.  But if his play doesn't pickup we could very easily be looking at a 5 to 10 point deficit between us an the playoffs. 

 

It's not simply a matter of leave him in long enough and he will for sure become good.  He might not.  And we really don't have the roster or the time to take this kind of risk right now. 



#53 ZigZagYourTorso

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:00 PM

Just pointing out that Kindl has looked prettttttttyyyyy prettyyyy pretty good tonight. 


Edited by ZigZagYourTorso, 29 January 2013 - 10:01 PM.

The cake is a lie...

#54 evilzyme

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

Just pointing out that Kindl has looked prettttttttyyyyy prettyyyy pretty good tonight. 

 

Really? I haven't been impressed with him today. From the start, he looked like a lost child on the break out. He stayed in datsyuk's hip pocket for the whole break out just wondering, "uhh where do I go?" He gradually has gotten decent throughout the game but he certainly isn't prettty pretty pretty good tonight, atleast in my opinion. 


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#55 ZigZagYourTorso

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:18 PM

Really? I haven't been impressed with him today. From the start, he looked like a lost child on the break out. He stayed in datsyuk's hip pocket for the whole break out just wondering, "uhh where do I go?" He gradually has gotten decent throughout the game but he certainly isn't prettty pretty pretty good tonight, atleast in my opinion. 

He started off a little shaky; but throughout the 2nd and 3rd I'd say he was one of the upper 50% of our defenseman on the ice tonight. I just feel like if he is utilized correctly he could become a solid 3-4 defenseman, who could average 30 points a year. 


The cake is a lie...

#56 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:44 AM

 

Just pointing out that Kindl has looked prettttttttyyyyy prettyyyy pretty good tonight. 

 

Agreed. Kindl played really good last night. And in an interview with him that I read on the MLive site, he stated that he had to take his opportunity to play good defense, move the puck well and not get beat 1 on 1. He did all those things against Dallas last night and that includes not getting beat 1 on 1 where late in the game he did a great job keeping the Stars puck carrier to the outside and eventually poked the puck away and ended up with it. For 3.75 mil or whatever Q makes now, I'll take Kindl playing for his life anyday.

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#57 mmamolo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:36 AM

Just pointing out that Kindl has looked prettttttttyyyyy prettyyyy pretty good tonight. 

The two games Kindl has played this year I think he has shown some improvement from last year.  By no means has he been perfect but he seems stronger, more confident and looks like he belongs a bit more.  I personally think Kindl may be at a point in his career that is similar to where Ericsson was at the beginning of last season.  They've had some ups and downs but it's time to take a big stride and to me, he looks like he may be able to do that.  I dont know if his offensive game will ever flourish but he definitely does not seem shakey out there.


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#58 kipwinger

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:20 PM

In the two games he's played so far I've noticed two things I really like about Kindl this season.  He seems more confident with the puck, and more importantly, he seems to be using his size and strength a little bit more.  In both games I've noticed him taking guys into the boards very hard.  Good for him.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#59 mmamolo

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

In the two games he's played so far I've noticed two things I really like about Kindl this season.  He seems more confident with the puck, and more importantly, he seems to be using his size and strength a little bit more.  In both games I've noticed him taking guys into the boards very hard.  Good for him.

I completely agree with that assessment.  Kindl also seems to be a bit more engaging - meaning he's taking the body to opposing players instead of getting hit.  He seems to be less timid


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#60 Euro_Twins

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

We will see, lets not forget that he started good last season as well, and we all know how he was after about 15 games







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