Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 Zetterberg, and Helm arethe two hardest workers on the team IMO, they give it their all every night, they leave their hearts on the ice, for someone to question that is ridiculous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogreslayer 1,069 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 That's 1 min 18s per game. I know it's not a big difference but it is consistent since the lockout. If it was a fluke, Datsyuk would have some years in which he had a little more ice-time. Altogether it's close to 1000 mins difference in games they have both played or the equivalent of almost 50 games. I think Babcock thinks Z is a little better and apparently so does Gretzky. I think Datsyuk is. And I think this thread is a lot better than some of the doom and gloom ones. There are 30 teams that have the same goal in a league that stresses parity, you have to expect some lean years and we haven't had any in more than 2 decades and I don't think this one will be either. So let's go back to your original comment where you stated "I guess Babcock must think Zetterberg is better..." Since the lockout, Hank has averaged all of 0.2375 shifts a game more than Pavs. Not even a quarter of a shift. You could probably flip a coin with Z on one side & Pavs on the other over an entire season & not get that close. The number of shifts a player gets per game, not TOI, is a much more accurate indicator of the value a coach places on individual players in all-around situations. A coach realistically only has indirect influence on a players TOI through the DIRECT influence of how many shifts he gives a player. A .2375 shift per game variance between the two since the first lockout? Really? To me it feels like you're looking for a conspiracy where one doesn't exist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoobiedoobin 138 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 There's a guy (GoWings) on the Red Wings Central Forum that called him Zoidberg and posted crap about Z questioning his effort all season long. I've seen that guy a few times, he's an oaf. Then again a lot of people are over there. I lurked but didn't even waste my time registering nevermind replying. If you're new or don't go along with the opinion of the 5 or 6 dumbasses who stick together and have been there forever, you're shunned. It's kinda sad but they have no one to mod their board so it's turned into to garbage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 Zetterberg, and Helm arethe two hardest workers on the team IMO, they give it their all every night, they leave their hearts on the ice, for someone to question that is ridiculous I know. I think you have to include Datsyuk in there as they are the 3 hardest workers on the team Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 I know. I think you have to include Datsyuk in there as they are the 3 hardest workers on the team Datsyuk does, but he doesn't play with the same heart the Z and helm do, that is why he is Captain. Datsyuk in my mind is the better player, but Z gives it everything he has, injury or not, and he is loyal to us, no one even knows if datsyuk wants to resign in the nhl next year or not Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 JohnZ.....do you realize how much you're splitting hairs here? It's not as if Dats is getting 14 a night while Z rocks a solid 24+. You're questioning a matter of seconds here. The reason the TOI differential seems minuscule is because its irrelevant. Babs has 100% faith in sticking either of these two guys out there at any time. He doesn't favor Z, however PK time has proven to be an area he excels at....hence the likely tiny differential. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 So let's go back to your original comment where you stated "I guess Babcock must think Zetterberg is better..." Since the lockout, Hank has averaged all of 0.2375 shifts a game more than Pavs. Not even a quarter of a shift. You could probably flip a coin with Z on one side & Pavs on the other over an entire season & not get that close. The number of shifts a player gets per game, not TOI, is a much more accurate indicator of the value a coach places on individual players in all-around situations. A coach realistically only has indirect influence on a players TOI through the DIRECT influence of how many shifts he gives a player. A .2375 shift per game variance between the two since the first lockout? Really? To me it feels like you're looking for a conspiracy where one doesn't exist. I wasn't thinking conspiracy. More like Babcock likes him a little more, but O guess maybe I was reading too much into a miniscule difference but only because it has been so consistent over the yrs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoobiedoobin 138 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 I know. I think you have to include Datsyuk in there as they are the 3 hardest workers on the team Flip, too. Datsyuk is hard to label. He doesn't visually exert himself too much but that's his style, he doesn't have to. He's more methodical and it works. Datsyuk at full speed is more of a once in awhile when it's truly necessary sort of thing. That said he never gives up on a play, or a game and is always trying in his own way to make something happen. He doesn't take games off though. Neither do Hank or Helm or Flip. They're great examples. I hate that Franzen is so lazy but at least he's not a top 3 player on the team. Some teams have top 3 guys, leaders and even captains who refuse to work hard. That's gotta suck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 I don't have any stats to back this up, but I feel like Z is generally matched up against the other team's top line if possible. If they play more, then he likely will too. Seems like this happens in the playoffs quite a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
55fan 5,133 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 Gentlemen, it is true that Hank has a teensyweensey bit of extra time during the regular season and a bit more during the playoffs. Please note, however, that Hank is not now as he always was. He used to be clean-shaven during the regular season and only grow a beard for the playoffs. Now he wears a beard year-round. Had he had a beard full-time during the length of his career, his ice time would be higher during the regular season also. Also, it was during his unbearded days that he had trouble with his wrist and back that kept him from playing. (He also was single when he had wrist and back troubles, but I'm sure that's a coincidence and it's actually the lack of the beard that had hindered him.) Quite simply, the more facial hair Z sprouts, the greater his ice time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigWillieStyle 662 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 The puck bunnies that chase Z, are 1% cuter than those that chase Pavel. I feel that Babcock is behind this, also. Such a conspiracy. 1 ogreslayer reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 Gentlemen, it is true that Hank has a teensyweensey bit of extra time during the regular season and a bit more during the playoffs. Please note, however, that Hank is not now as he always was. He used to be clean-shaven during the regular season and only grow a beard for the playoffs. Now he wears a beard year-round. Had he had a beard full-time during the length of his career, his ice time would be higher during the regular season also. Also, it was during his unbearded days that he had trouble with his wrist and back that kept him from playing. (He also was single when he had wrist and back troubles, but I'm sure that's a coincidence and it's actually the lack of the beard that had hindered him.) Quite simply, the more facial hair Z sprouts, the greater his ice time. Or essentially, Zetterberg gets about 20 minutes a game, with his beard picking up the extra minute or two. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electrophile 3,554 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 Why is there a "but" at the end of the thread title? Zetterberg's great. Period. Datsyuk is great. Period. Be grateful they play for us, not someone else. 3 Jesusberg, Serratoni and 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 I know. I think you have to include Datsyuk in there as they are the 3 hardest workers on the team And tootoo so far.. That guy gives 110% whenever he steps on the ice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted January 30, 2013 I'm a die hard Wings fan...does that mean I'm not allowed to like St. Louis and Chicago? Cause I do. I've liked the Hawks and Blues since the days of Roenick and Chelios, Hull and Oates. I've been a Sabres fan since LaFontaine and Mogilny. Hell, I used to like the Cansucks when they had Bure and Mogilny. I hope we're not supposed to hate teams cause they aren't the Wings. Once it comes to playoff time, I cheer for Wings far and away #1, but if they get knocked out and Chicago and St. Louis are still in you can bet your ass I'll be cheering for them over crap like Pittsburgh and Vancouver and San Jose. On the bright side though, if the Wings play in the playoffs the way they did last night then we should actually see a legit playoff run. That may be top to bottom the best game I've seen the Wings play in about 2 1/2 - 3 years. Not a schelacking goal wise, but they played 60 minutes of hard nosed hockey and played really well all around. You are a die hard HOCKEY fan. As a die hard WINGS fan, you are NOT allowed to like their division rivals. Thats the definition of NOT being die hard. If you are not absolutely devastated when the Wings lose in the playoffs and dont immediately start counting the days to the next season, then you are NOT a die hard Wings fan. And btw, theres nothing wrong with yhat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electrophile 3,554 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 The puck bunnies that chase Z, are 1% cuter than those that chase Pavel. I feel that Babcock is behind this, also. Such a conspiracy. This is totally an aside, but I really really really really dislike puckbunnies. Holy crap, do they irritate the living daylights out of me. There's few things more offensive to a female sports fan than other females who are only into the sport to drool over rich men. You can spot them by their pink hats, pink jerseys, and total lack of knowledge about what's going on on the diamond/ice/field/court. They make the rest of us look bad. 1 shoobiedoobin reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoobiedoobin 138 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 And tootoo so far.. That guy gives 110% whenever he steps on the ice. Bingo. And look at when Helm is in the lineup-we seem to collectively work and skate a bit harder. And when he's actually on the ice, man oh man, the whole game goes into fast forward. He's such a game changer. Eaves was always a hard skater too. Now maybe we've had slow starts but over the course of the season esp after the STL game where we were in preseason mode, we look like a much harder working team than the past two seasons. We've added Tootoo, got Eaves back, Helm's back and Brunner's a hard worker too. It's no coincidence that the whole team is skating harder. Even Franzen, while still prone to standing around watching, is working a tad harder. Sometimes all it takes it an extra couple guys to give the whole team that extra push in the right direction. 1 Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted January 30, 2013 This is totally an aside, but I really really really really dislike puckbunnies. Holy crap, do they irritate the living daylights out of me. There's few things more offensive to a female sports fan than other females who are only into the sport to drool over rich men. You can spot them by their pink hats, pink jerseys, and total lack of knowledge about what's going on on the diamond/ice/field/court. They make the rest of us look bad. Newsflash: Puck Bunnies AND Knowledgeable hockey chicks hate us hockey nerds all the same!!! And yah, we are all hockey nerds! I am perfectly ok with a little eye candy in the stands and some chicks in tight spandex skating around and swooping up the excess snow during breaks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electrophile 3,554 Report post Posted January 30, 2013 Newsflash: Puck Bunnies AND Knowledgeable hockey chicks hate us hockey nerds all the same!!! And yah, we are all hockey nerds! I am perfectly ok with a little eye candy in the stands and some chicks in tight spandex skating around and swooping up the excess snow during breaks. .....those aren't the people I'm talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoobiedoobin 138 Report post Posted January 31, 2013 This is totally an aside, but I really really really really dislike puckbunnies. Holy crap, do they irritate the living daylights out of me. There's few things more offensive to a female sports fan than other females who are only into the sport to drool over rich men. You can spot them by their pink hats, pink jerseys, and total lack of knowledge about what's going on on the diamond/ice/field/court. They make the rest of us look bad. Women who throw themselves at a man and change who they are to get their attention sicken me. It's impossible to respect and it not only says something about the woman who is doing it, but it says quite a bit about the man who would accept it. But the society we live in encourages it in a very derpy kinda of beer commercial mentality. From a male's point of view we're told to "tap that bro" or "what are you ***, hit it and quit it!" and from a female's perspective, women are taught to be a man's toy or prize or thing he owns. Toss yourself at him, you're a brainless ditz! I should just stop here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted January 31, 2013 .....those aren't the people I'm talking about. Youre talking about the hot ass chick with the pink hat, 500 dollar boots, tight ass red wings shirt over her fake DD's, tight ass 300 dollar jeans, drinking a glass of wine and blabbering on about wanting some bullsht pair of sunglasses her rich ass boyfriend is going to have to buy her with his dad's money. I know who you are talking about. In telling you that you need to start liking these chicks. The worlds a better place with them in it. Women who throw themselves at a man and change who they are to get their attention sicken me. It's impossible to respect and it not only says something about the woman who is doing it, but it says quite a bit about the man who would accept it. But the society we live in encourages it in a very derpy kinda of beer commercial mentality. From a male's point of view we're told to "tap that bro" or "what are you ***, hit it and quit it!" and from a female's perspective, women are taught to be a man's toy or prize or thing he owns. Toss yourself at him, you're a brainless ditz! I should just stop here... Yes. Just stop. Easier to smile and be nice to everyone. These people mean you no harm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted January 31, 2013 Gentlemen, it is true that Hank has a teensyweensey bit of extra time during the regular season and a bit more during the playoffs. Please note, however, that Hank is not now as he always was. He used to be clean-shaven during the regular season and only grow a beard for the playoffs. Now he wears a beard year-round. Had he had a beard full-time during the length of his career, his ice time would be higher during the regular season also. Also, it was during his unbearded days that he had trouble with his wrist and back that kept him from playing. (He also was single when he had wrist and back troubles, but I'm sure that's a coincidence and it's actually the lack of the beard that had hindered him.) Quite simply, the more facial hair Z sprouts, the greater his ice time. While I absolutely agree z's beard is the reason for the extra ice time, this doesn't explain all of kronwalls I've time... I may have to investigate further, I feel there is something I'm missing here, we have to dig deeper 1 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted January 31, 2013 While I absolutely agree z's beard is the reason for the extra ice time, this doesn't explain all of kronwalls I've time... I may have to investigate further, I feel there is something I'm missing here, we have to dig deeper Kronwall's beard is actually fake. Its made out of Z's shaved hair though!!! 2 McAwesome and 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest irishock Report post Posted January 31, 2013 Pavel grew a better beard than Zetterberg in the 2011 playoffs, He played 50 seconds less than Z. So your argument is invalid. 1 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Johnz96 Report post Posted January 31, 2013 Youre talking about the hot ass chick with the pink hat, 500 dollar boots, tight ass red wings shirt over her fake DD's, tight ass 300 dollar jeans, drinking a glass of wine and blabbering on about wanting some bullsht pair of sunglasses her rich ass boyfriend is going to have to buy her with his dad's money. I know who you are talking about. In telling you that you need to start liking these chicks. The worlds a better place with them in it. Yes. Just stop. Easier to smile and be nice to everyone. These people mean you no harm. Fake **** are ugly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
