Rumor O'Reilly Trade Rumor

[RWHockey 3]

This from ESPN....

Any thoughts?

If you ever want to talk to Ryan O'Reilly after a hockey practice, be prepared to wait. In the past, when other Colorado Avalanche players were already on the way to their cars in the parking lot after practice, O'Reilly was often still on the ice.

When Kevin Shattenkirk was still with the Avalanche, sometimes he would aid O'Reilly in a drill the young center dreamed up. Or just watch out of curiosity.

"He's on the ice an extra, at least, half-hour every day," Shattenkirk said. "Working on the weirdest things."

For example?

"In the slot, he would sauce a puck at the net, take another [puck] and try to shoot it out of the air with another puck," he said. "He'd have two pucks going."

In another post-practice drill session, O'Reilly would have Shattenkirk fire pucks in the air at him so he could knock them down and try to get off a quick shot. Over and over and over.

"It's just little skills like that you never even think to work on," Shattenkirk said. "He does it every day. For that reason, he's pretty mature beyond his years."

When you talk to former teammates about O'Reilly's worth as his holdout now drags into the second quarter of the season, they explain that it goes beyond the 55 points he put up in 2011-12, his best season. It's the tireless work ethic to improve, along with being beloved in the dressing room, mixed in with a growing offensive stature and strong two-way game. Along with his on-ice production, it's a combination that should now make the 22-year-old highly desirable on the trade market.

[e_prime 1,936]

^ but where is he now?

This is a nice story about O'Reilly's work ethic when he's got himself a contract, but currently he's a hold out and that can be viewed by many as a "bad attitude" or "bad teammate."

I think he could be a great player, but I wouldn't throw $5 million a season at him just yet.

Adrian Dater (Avs writer) offers up this analysis, which I think sums up nicely the counterpoints for all the "IS COLORADO DUMB OR WHAT!?!? SIGN THIS GUY ALREADY" analysis that's out there.

(Dater even admits to some of that analysis himself.)

I am a mean sarcastic writer sometimes. Just the way I am, take it or leave it. But I pride myself in being fair.

So I was thinking today: I’ve been a little tough on the Avs in the Ryan O’Reilly situation. Ripping on them for take-it-or-leave it offers and essentially saying “How can you not sign this guy?” But I also think it’s fair to try and put forth a counterargument as to why the Avs may be in the right for taking a hard line in salary talks.

Let me, therefore, be fair and point out a few things about O’Reilly, maybe try to channel the Avs and their thinking a bit. I’m not saying this is what they are thinking. I’m saying I’m going to channel them as best I can.

Here goes:

- O’Reilly wants to be paid like a 30-goal scorer in this league. He scored 39 goals his first three years in the league. He’s never even scored 20. Guys who steal a few pucks and score 15-20 goals are great (his career high is 18, last year), but they aren’t $5 million a year players.

- O’Reilly is basing all his salary demands on one good year. He wants at least $5 million a year for one good year. But he’s played three. Sorry, kid, but you haven’t proven yourself enough yet to get that kind of money. Besides, if you’re as good as you say you are, then you’d have taken a one- or two-year deal, played your butt off and put up another big and maybe even better year and PROVEN you’re not just a one-year wonder. Then, you would have really had the Avs by the shorthairs at the bargaining table.

Then, you would have been eligible for arbitration and pretty much gotten any salary you’d want from the arbitrator. Or, you would have forced the Avs to cry uncle, admit you’re the real deal and then gotten that long-term deal for maybe even more money than you want now.

But you want to be guaranteed huge money for a long time without truly having proven yet that you can do it consistently.

- You had your best scoring year playing with the NHL rookie of the year. (Duchene) Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

- Your camp may be ridiculing supposed friend and teammate Matt Duchene for taking a short-money contract and thereby setting a floor too low for your own self. Fine, but guess what? Matt Duchene worked his butt off this summer, got himself in incredible shape and has played great this season, and now he’s likely looking at a huge new contract before too long. Maybe the Avs even reward him already with a rich contract extension before too long, to not have to worry about keeping him down the road.

That could have been you.

Oh, and by the way: Duchene put up 132 points his first two years in the league. You put up 52 and were a combined minus-3. In fact, your career plus-minus is -4.

- Speaking of that great last season you had, can we talk about the last six games of the year? You know, the ones that were the crunch-time games, the ones that would determine if the Avs made the playoffs or not, the ones where the really great players are supposed to rise to the occasion?

Your stats for the final six games: Zero goals, one assist, -2.

Over the final 18 games, you scored two goals for us.

- How do you think you really come off to your teammates? As a team-first guy, or a me-first guy now? Think about that one hard.

OK, I’m back to my normal self again. Channel time over. I think now that I have accomplished my mission of being fair and presenting both sides.

Now, it’s up to the real parties involved to channel the rest of this story.

EDIT: Formatting. The cut and paste job of the article made it impossible to read.

Edited February 15, 2013 by e_prime

[evilmrt 636]

The problem with so many of these young players is that they have complete douchebags for agents. Said agents convince young kids to play hardball for big $$$. See recent PK Subban nonsense.

They're like the scumbag washington lobbists of the NHL.

The way to get around that is to lay down an offer sheet. Avs won't deal with Kenny anyways, so just do it already.

[Guest Johnz96]

I think O'Reilly is overrated, he has had only1 year in which he has produced (with numbers similar to Hudler's but O'Reilly needed a lot more ice -time tp produce them and most of you here thought Hudler wasn't worth $4mill but O'Reilly is worth more and giving up assets for???). He has never even managed a point a game in jr. He is not physical. I don't see why anybody would consider giving him $5mill unless they like to overpay for players making it harder to sign others at what they are worth

[DetroitRedWings1993 49]

I agree, I just don't see O'Reilly worth $5 million a season for a single great year. Consistency is everything. I just don't see it from this kid.

We're not really sure. He hasn't been on the ice, and hasn't had the chance to show if he can improve or show consistency. He has the talent to. Teams looking to acquire him are doing just that: banking on his talent and work-ethic to carry him to improvement and consistency.

Edited February 15, 2013 by DetroitRedWings1993

[Nightfall 871]

We're not really sure. He hasn't been on the ice, and hasn't had the chance to show if he can improve or show consistency. He has the talent to. Teams looking to acquire him are doing just that: banking on his talent and work-ethic to carry him to improvement and consistency.

True, I guess it depends on if you want to roll the dice on him. I don't think he is worth it.

[Guest Johnz96]

I love how some people here can assume that another GM will take our scraps for a proven commodity. These imbalanced trade propositions aren't going to fly.

If O'Reilly was drafted by the Wings he would be fighting for pecking order on the Griffs and he would be behind Tatar and Nyquist. Both are better than he is

[Richdg 267]

If O'Reilly was drafted by the Wings he would be fighting for pecking order on the Griffs and he would be behind Tatar and Nyquist. Both are better than he is

That is just wrong on so many levels. O'Reilly has produced more points at the NHL level than Tatar or Nyquist have at the AHL level. Big huge giant difference. he is 22-just turned that this past week, that is YOUNGER than Nyquist. At 6-0/200 he is much better equiped to handle the grind of the NHL. he is on his way to being a 70+ point per year guy. Nyquist/tatar will never be there.

Now we can like or hate the current pay schedules in pro sports, but that is what they make.

[DetroitRedWings1993 49]

Depending on how bad Datsyuk's injury is, I'd say the need for O'Reilly just opened up. The defense doomed us last night, though. Several guys out of position or commiting bad turnovers numerous times. O'Reilly may be able to help with that, to an extent. Still think he goes to either Toronto or Ottawa, but this makes things interesting.

[Richdg 267]

Depending on how bad Datsyuk's injury is, I'd say the need for O'Reilly just opened up. The defense doomed us last night, though. Several guys out of position or commiting bad turnovers numerous times. O'Reilly may be able to help with that, to an extent. Still think he goes to either Toronto or Ottawa, but this makes things interesting.

Best defense is a good offense. If we have the puck, then of course the other team doesn't. That helps our D. Even if datsyuk is playing we still need more talent across the board.

[Guest Johnz96]

That is just wrong on so many levels. O'Reilly has produced more points at the NHL level than Tatar or Nyquist have at the AHL level. Big huge giant difference. he is 22-just turned that this past week, that is YOUNGER than Nyquist. At 6-0/200 he is much better equiped to handle the grind of the NHL. he is on his way to being a 70+ point per year guy. Nyquist/tatar will never be there.

Now we can like or hate the current pay schedules in pro sports, but that is what they make.

YOU are so wrong on so many levels.He scored 55 points last year, his best year and the only year he has shown any offensive potential. In the 2 previous seasons he scored 26 points each. Even in jr he could never manage a point per game in a season. Both Nyquist and Tatar have scored more than 55 points in a season and have done it with a lot less than 81 games. O'Reilly has scored 107 points in 236 NHL games a 0.45 PPG Nyquist has 107 points in 111 AHL games a 0.96 PPG. Tatar has scored 186 points in 248 games a 0.76 PPG. O'Reilly hasn't scored more in the NHL than either of them in the AHL in a season or for their careers (in fact Nyquist more than doubles O"Reilly's PPG and Tatar almost does as well). Please stop lying on these threads, that's the second time in less than a week that I have caught you lying about stats.

Sure he is a little bigger than Nyquist and Tatar but Nyquist is much faster and Tatar is also faster but also more physical, probably stronger and tougher, he is a workout warrior, with very little body fat.

The only reason O'Reilly has more points in the NHL than they do is because of the team he was drafted by. If he was drafted by the Wings he would still be toiling in the minors and you would consider him a middling prospect without any star potential because he would be behind Tatar and Nyquist in the pecking order.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Johnz96

[Richdg 267]

YOU are so wrong on so many levels.He scored 55 points last year, his best year and the only year he has shown any offensive potential. In the 2 previous seasons he scored 26 points each. Even in jr he could never manage a point per game in a season. Both Nyquist and Tatar have scored more than 55 points in a season and have done it with a lot less than 81 games. O'Reilly has scored 107 points in 236 NHL games a 0.45 PPG Nyquist has 107 points in 111 AHL games a 0.96 PPG. Tatar has scored 186 points in 248 games a 0.76 PPG. O'Reilly hasn't scored more in the NHL than either of them in the AHL in a season or for their careers (in fact Nyquist more than doubles O"Reilly's PPG and Tatar almost does as well). Please stop lying on these threads, that's the second time in less than a week that I have caught you lying about stats.

Sure he is a little bigger than Nyquist and Tatar but Nyquist is much faster and Tatar is also faster but also more physical, probably stronger and tougher, he is a workout warrior, with very little body fat.

The only reason O'Reilly has more points in the NHL than they do is because of the team he was drafted by. If he was drafted by the Wings he would still be toiling in the minors and you would consider him a middling prospect without any star potential because he would be behind Tatar and Nyquist in the pecking order.

LOL, this is funny and kinda sad at the same time. Are you really trying to compare AHL points to NHL points? if so, there is nothing else to discuss. those 2 things are not even close. 58 points in the 2012 season Nyquists and tatars best full seasons to date is not better in any way shape or form than 55 points in the NHL for the same season. its like Al bundy bragging about once scoring 4 touchdowns in a HS football game. if you can't see this you destroy any and all validity in all your points. BTW neither Nyquist or tatar ever scored a point a game in Juniors either-they didn't play. They played overseas and Nyquist played college hockey, which again isn't the same, by a long shot.

O'Reilly would be the 3rd or 4th best F on our team. Only datsyuk and Z clearly better right now, and he is about equal to Filppula. The difference is, he is on the upswing, where the rest are on the down swing.

One last thing. Nyquist can't stick on our team right now. he once again has been sent down. He isn't able to beat guys like eaves, Cleary, Abby, Emmerton, etc....

Edited February 17, 2013 by Richdg

[Guest Johnz96]

LOL, this is funny and kinda sad at the same time. Are you really trying to compare AHL points to NHL points? if so, there is nothing else to discuss. those 2 things are not even close. 58 points in the 2012 season Nyquists and tatars best full seasons to date is not better in any way shape or form than 55 points in the NHL for the same season. its like Al bundy bragging about once scoring 4 touchdowns in a HS football game. if you can't see this you destroy any and all validity in all your points. BTW neither Nyquist or tatar ever scored a point a game in Juniors either-they didn't play. They played overseas and Nyquist played college hockey, which again isn't the same, by a long shot.

O'Reilly would be the 3rd or 4th best F on our team. Only datsyuk and Z clearly better right now, and he is about equal to Filppula. The difference is, he is on the upswing, where the rest are on the down swing.

One last thing. Nyquist can't stick on our team right now. he once again has been sent down. He isn't able to beat guys like eaves, Cleary, Abby, Emmerton, etc....

You are the one who was comparing NHL stats to AHL stats when you said that O'Reilly scored more in the NHL than Tatar and Nyquist scored in the AHL, I was poin ting out that that was a flat out lie. The years in which Nyquist and Tatar scored 58 points they did it in a lot less than the 81 games it took O'Reilly to score 55.

[Richdg 267]

You are the one who was comparing NHL stats to AHL stats when you said that O'Reilly scored more in the NHL than Tatar and Nyquist scored in the AHL, I was poin ting out that that was a flat out lie. The years in which Nyquist and Tatar scored 58 points they did it in a lot less than the 81 games it took O'Reilly to score 55.

ya 76 games. a lot less vs a lot less competition. O'reilly is a much better player today, tomorrow, and baring serious injury his whole career. Now you can say we should target others, which is fine. Everyone has their favs. But if we could get O'Reilly-and there is no evidence we are even trying, we should. Would be an instant upgrade to our team. He alone is better than Nyquist and tatar together.

[DetroitRedWings1993 49]

Best defense is a good offense. If we have the puck, then of course the other team doesn't. That helps our D. Even if datsyuk is playing we still need more talent across the board.

Oh, I agree. We need a solid, top-pairing, two-way D-man who can run the power-play and provide consistent defense and offensive production and a proven, consistent goal-scorer to help stabilize the 5-on-5 offense and get the power-play going, at least. We could use even more, but those two things are the biggest need that I see. Would love for that scorer to be a true, gritty power forward, too. Problem is, neither of those two things seem to be available now or well into the future. Of course, I don't see Holland trying very hard, either. I certainly hope there's something going on behind closed doors that we don't know about, because I've heard absolutely nothing.

[Guest Johnz96]

ya 76 games. a lot less vs a lot less competition. O'reilly is a much better player today, tomorrow, and baring serious injury his whole career. Now you can say we should target others, which is fine. Everyone has their favs. But if we could get O'Reilly-and there is no evidence we are even trying, we should. Would be an instant upgrade to our team. He alone is better than Nyquist and tatar together.

Nyquist did it in 56 games and Tatar also scored 57 in 70

[Richdg 267]

Nyquist did it in 56 games and Tatar also scored 57 in 70

tatar scored 58 in 76 games. Again doesn't matter. AHL points are not the same as NHL points. Go back and look at the points totals from last year, and see where O'reilly and his 55 points compare to others around him. Some of the others that scored 50-60 points: kane, Ryan, Toews, getzlaf, Backes, versteeg, etc etc.... Now go check what those guys make per season. 5 million is the market rate.

BTW with the crappy play that Fil is showing to date this season, O'Reilly would be our 3rd best player. A close 3rd behind D and Z.

[Guest Johnz96]

tatar scored 58 in 76 games. Again doesn't matter. AHL points are not the same as NHL points. Go back and look at the points totals from last year, and see where O'reilly and his 55 points compare to others around him. Some of the others that scored 50-60 points: kane, Ryan, Toews, getzlaf, Backes, versteeg, etc etc.... Now go check what those guys make per season. 5 million is the market rate.

BTW with the crappy play that Fil is showing to date this season, O'Reilly would be our 3rd best player. A close 3rd behind D and Z.

He also scored 57 in 70.

You lie, you leave out pertinent info when trying to make an argument and you're a dick that's why you have the worst +/- ever recorded here.

O'Reilly scored a few more points than Hudler did last year but needed a lot more ice-time to do so, other than last year he has never produced much at any level, not even in jr.

[Richdg 267]

He also scored 57 in 70.

You lie, you leave out pertinent info when trying to make an argument and you're a dick that's why you have the worst +/- ever recorded here.

O'Reilly scored a few more points than Hudler did last year but needed a lot more ice-time to do so, other than last year he has never produced much at any level, not even in jr.

Lie? How. I used his best season. As for +/- on a forum, you have to be kidding.... Are you 12? Also, in 08/08 while playing for Erie, O'reilly scored 66 points in 68 games. Next year he was a rookie in the NHL. Never played in the minors like Nyquist and tatar are. Year before O'Reilly put up 52 points in 61 games. So, as I have stated before, he improves every year. Which is what you want from your young stars.

[Guest Johnz96]

Lie? How. I used his best season. As for +/- on a forum, you have to be kidding.... Are you 12? Also, in 08/08 while playing for Erie, O'reilly scored 66 points in 68 games. Next year he was a rookie in the NHL. Never played in the minors like Nyquist and tatar are. Year before O'Reilly put up 52 points in 61 games. So, as I have stated before, he improves every year. Which is what you want from your young stars.

I already pointed out your lies. You said O'Reilly scored more in the NHL than Nyquist or Tatar scored in the AHL. A lie. You said "Just for reference, tatar's best season in GR was 58 points. Emmerton......52. Nothing to see here, please move along......". A lie

O'Reilly never played in the minors because of the team he plays for, if he was drafted by the Wings, he would still be toiling in the minors and you would consider him a middling prospect without any star potential because he would be behind Tatar and Nyquist in the pecking order.

Even Emmerton managed to score a lot more than than a point a game in jr.

O'Reilly scored 5 more points (7 fewer goals) than Hudler last year but did it with 313 more minutes of ice-time an equivalent of more than 20 games for Hudler.

[Richdg 267]

I already pointed out your lies. You said O'Reilly scored more in the NHL than Nyquist or Tatar scored in the AHL. A lie. You said "Just for reference, tatar's best season in GR was 58 points. Emmerton......52. Nothing to see here, please move along......". A lie

O'Reilly never played in the minors because of the team he plays for, if he was drafted by the Wings, he would still be toiling in the minors and you would consider him a middling prospect without any star potential because he would be behind Tatar and Nyquist in the pecking order.

Even Emmerton managed to score a lot more than than a point a game in jr.

O'Reilly scored 5 more points (7 fewer goals) than Hudler last year but did it with 313 more minutes of ice-time an equivalent of more than 20 games for Hudler.

Yes I misquoted myself on Nyquist and Emmerton, which I admitted to. it was Abdelkader that scored 52, not Emmerton. So glad that finding every mistake everyone makes is the sole goal of your life. Fact O'reilly is better than Nyquist and tatar. O'Reilly is already producing at the NHL level and those 2 have not. In fact, Nyquist can't even keep a job here.

Now you can not beleive it, keep hoping coal turns into a diamond, and that is fine. But trying to deny that O'reilly wouldn't be an upgrade is just wrong. He would be the 3rd best player on our team right now, and only get better.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Yes I misquoted myself on Nyquist and Emmerton, which I admitted to. it was Abdelkader that scored 52, not Emmerton. So glad that finding every mistake everyone makes is the sole goal of your life. Fact O'reilly is better than Nyquist and tatar. O'Reilly is already producing at the NHL level and those 2 have not. In fact, Nyquist can't even keep a job here.

Now you can not beleive it, keep hoping coal turns into a diamond, and that is fine. But trying to deny that O'reilly wouldn't be an upgrade is just wrong. He would be the 3rd best player on our team right now, and only get better.

fact tatar has 2 goals and 2 assists in 7 games this year, and is being promoted to the top 6 in place of cleary, I'll keep Tatar up here

[Guest Johnz96]

Yes I misquoted myself on Nyquist and Emmerton, which I admitted to. it was Abdelkader that scored 52, not Emmerton. So glad that finding every mistake everyone makes is the sole goal of your life. Fact O'reilly is better than Nyquist and tatar. O'Reilly is already producing at the NHL level and those 2 have not. In fact, Nyquist can't even keep a job here.

Now you can not beleive it, keep hoping coal turns into a diamond, and that is fine. But trying to deny that O'reilly wouldn't be an upgrade is just wrong. He would be the 3rd best player on our team right now, and only get better.

They weren't misquotes, you're a liar.

[DSM 114]

All of this debate over O'Reilly is pointless because there is absolutely no chance that he gets traded to Detroit.

Why you ask?

Two major reasons:

1. They have been stating all along that Colorado would prefer to send him to an Eastern conference team.

Pretty cut and dry. I'm sure guys out there that like to trade like Sather and Holmgren have already been on the phone multiple times.

2. What Colorado wants vs. what Holland will normally shell out.

Colorado wants a roster player that can make an impact, a 1st or 2nd rounder AND a decent prospect.

Forget all of the players that most of you want Detroit to trade like Cleary, Filppula, Quincey, Samuelsson etc etc. Colorado is going to want a roster player that can come in and make an impact and potentially get some years out of them. They are severely lacking offense from the back end, so at the top of their list would be Brendan Smith. If not him, I'm betting the next player they would want would be Darren Helm. For the prospect would want either Nyquist or Tatar.

In almost 16 years, Holland has never traded prospects of Tatar and Nyquists ilk, and has only traded a roster player of Smith or Helms calibre once in a deal to bring a player to the team. I doubt he is going to start now.

The chances of this deal happening are extremely slim to none.

[Richdg 267]

fact tatar has 2 goals and 2 assists in 7 games this year, and is being promoted to the top 6 in place of cleary, I'll keep Tatar up here

you are not really silly enough to judge any player on 7 games are you? Didn't Smith have a great little 8 game streak last year as well? The question with tatar is can he do it over 80 games? i don't think he can or will. Untill he plays a full season or 2, we will not know. I have said on many different threads, PLAY NYQUIST and Tatar so we do know. When it is all said and done, I beleive they will settle in as 40 point per year players. 18-20 goals and 20 or so assists every year. Horrible, no. Stars? No.

All of this debate over O'Reilly is pointless because there is absolutely no chance that he gets traded to Detroit.

Why you ask?

Two major reasons:

1. They have been stating all along that Colorado would prefer to send him to an Eastern conference team.

Pretty cut and dry. I'm sure guys out there that like to trade like Sather and Holmgren have already been on the phone multiple times.

2. What Colorado wants vs. what Holland will normally shell out.

Colorado wants a roster player that can make an impact, a 1st or 2nd rounder AND a decent prospect.

Forget all of the players that most of you want Detroit to trade like Cleary, Filppula, Quincey, Samuelsson etc etc. Colorado is going to want a roster player that can come in and make an impact and potentially get some years out of them. They are severely lacking offense from the back end, so at the top of their list would be Brendan Smith. If not him, I'm betting the next player they would want would be Darren Helm. For the prospect would want either Nyquist or Tatar.

In almost 16 years, Holland has never traded prospects of Tatar and Nyquists ilk, and has only traded a roster player of Smith or Helms calibre once in a deal to bring a player to the team. I doubt he is going to start now.

The chances of this deal happening are extremely slim to none.

I agree. It is the type of move we need, but we will not make.