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#41 e_prime

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:22 PM

From THN:
 

News

Although Ryan O'Reilly's agents and the Avalanche talked recently, neither side is reportedly willing to move from their current positions.

Denver Post


Impact

 

So with 10 Avalanche games already in the books, O'Reilly might not even be close to re-signing. The question now is if a team would be willing to sign the restricted free agent to an offer sheet. The problem is that paying O'Reilly roughly what he wants - reportedly about $5 million per season - would cost the signing team at least a first and third round pick, assuming Colorado doesn't match the offer. That's a lot for O'Reilly, who is still a gamble given that he's only had one breakout season. Still, he's also young with plenty of untapped upside.

A team might ultimately decide that the risk is worth the potential reward.

Really?   So, he's up to wanting $5 million/season??

...and the first option for a team with interest is to try to sign him to an offer sheet?  :g:  Riiiiigggghhhht. 

 

Sounds like someone wants Colorado and O'Reilly to work this out because if you're going to float an offer sheet his way you have to go big.

If you try and lowball an offer and get away with just second rounder compensation... $3.364/yr average or under, Colorado is going to thank you kindly and match that offer.

 

I don't know what it is about offer sheets and the media, but seriously... if you have ANY serious interest at all in making O'Reilly a member of your club.... you're trading for his rights with something reasonable, not offering up an win/win for Colorado.


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#42 DSM

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:18 PM

From THN:
 
 

Really?   So, he's up to wanting $5 million/season??

...and the first option for a team with interest is to try to sign him to an offer sheet?  :g:  Riiiiigggghhhht. 

 

Sounds like someone wants Colorado and O'Reilly to work this out because if you're going to float an offer sheet his way you have to go big.

If you try and lowball an offer and get away with just second rounder compensation... $3.364/yr average or under, Colorado is going to thank you kindly and match that offer.

 

I don't know what it is about offer sheets and the media, but seriously... if you have ANY serious interest at all in making O'Reilly a member of your club.... you're trading for his rights with something reasonable, not offering up an win/win for Colorado.

 

O'Reilly has to agree to the offer sheet. If he wants's $5mill a season, then he certainly isn't going to sign a $3.364/yr offer sheet. If this drags out long enough, I'm seure an offer sheet is not out of the question. But it will be for the money he wants, and Colorado I'm sure will certainly match. For $5mil/yr the compensatio would be a 1st and a 3rd. For a playoff team, that's not really an awful price for a top 6 forward. Again however, if an offer sheet goes to O'Reilly it would have to be outrageous for Colorado to not match.



#43 e_prime

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:24 PM

O'Reilly has to agree to the offer sheet. If he wants's $5mill a season, then he certainly isn't going to sign a $3.364/yr offer sheet. If this drags out long enough, I'm seure an offer sheet is not out of the question. But it will be for the money he wants, and Colorado I'm sure will certainly match. For $5mil/yr the compensatio would be a 1st and a 3rd. For a playoff team, that's not really an awful price for a top 6 forward. Again however, if an offer sheet goes to O'Reilly it would have to be outrageous for Colorado to not match.

 

Oh yes, I understand all that.  If the sides are as deadlocked as they seemingly are, an offersheet is just what O'Reilly or the 'lanche may be looking for. Someone else to force their hand into making a deal.  Which is why I find the idea of an offer sheet for O'Reilly to be amusing.

 

If you're truly interested in him on your roster, you don't offersheet him.  You pry his rights from Avalanche for a younger roster player and/or a decent prospect and/or a 2nd or 3rd round pick.  (Depending on how you value him)  

 

Then you offer O'Reilly a serious wake up call of a deal. 

He's turned down both deals the Avalanche have offered: 

2 years at $7million (3.5 cap hit) and 5 years at $17million (3.4 cap hit.) 

He wants 5 years/ $25million

 

I don't think O'Reilly is worth $5 million/year. It's a shame that Colorado signed David Jones to $4/yr -- he's healthier than Jones... and yeah, he was only drafted 30 spots lower than Duchene in the same draft, but he's no Matt Duchene.

(Who will be looking for a new contract very soon)   EDIT: I thought Duchene's contract was up this year.

 

If he's looking around the league at other contracts... Well, he's no Jamie Benn either, which is what he think's he's worth.

 

He's gotta look at the bridge deals that Del Zotto and Subban got and seriously understand that with the new CBA and lower cap next year it is going to ensure that sane GMs don't overspend on solid, but yet unproven talent. 

Take that bridge contract and play your guts out for that next contract.


Edited by e_prime, 07 February 2013 - 03:58 PM.

QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#44 Richdg

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:46 PM

Things maybe heating up, and many believe he is going to be moved.

 

http://www.yardbarke...reilly/12906829

 

nyquist, tatar, and mccollum right now today.



#45 Nightfall

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

Things maybe heating up, and many believe he is going to be moved.

 

http://www.yardbarke...reilly/12906829

 

nyquist, tatar, and mccollum right now today.

 

I love how some people here can assume that another GM will take our scraps for a proven commodity.  These imbalanced trade propositions aren't going to fly.


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#46 e_prime

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:50 AM

All talk I've seen thus far concerning a possible trade for O'Reilly are with teams in the East. 

 

As far as the asking price goes, the Avalanche are looking for a young roster player and top prospect.

 

The Avalanche wouldn't trade with us in the first place, but I'm not going to say that Tatar and Nyquist don't meet the prerequisites of a posible deal.  (Tatar is on the ice for us, and most people think Nyquist should be, or would be if he were playing elsewhere)

 

Proven commodity (I don't necessarily agree that he's "proven") or not, the Avalanche have already reached an inpasse with O'Reilly and they have pretty much reached the point of no return when it comes to getting him signed and back on the ice. So, while I'm not saying they should be taking "scraps" for the guy... they gotta start thinking about getting something for him.


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#47 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:15 PM

I'd love for this deal to go down, but I just don't think it will.  All talk I've heard concerns teams in the East, and Ottawa and Toronto will go HARD after O'Reilly and have more attractive prospects, most likely.  That being said, some of the deals I've seen presented:

 

Either Franzen or Filpulla - The Avs want youth, and Franzen doesn't fit the bill.  Injury-prone and inconsistent, too.  Filpulla would be an attractive piece, but I'd rather keep him.  He and O'Reilly are very similar and losing one for the other would be a wash, most likely.

 

Nyquist and a first - A steep price for a guy who's relatively unproven and wants around 5 mil. a year.  Considering this is a very deep draft, picks are very valuable in most rounds.  Not to mention Nyquist hasn't really had a chance to earn his salt in the big leagues.  Avs might do it if this is the best offer.  Probably won't be, though. 

 

Tatar and a second - Not even close to enough to get the Avs to move a player with #1-center potential.  Doesn't fit their demands.

 

Adding Andersson - Decent, but not overwhelming player.  Avs probably don't want a checker for a top offensive talent.

 

Adding Sheahan - DUI incident hurts his trade value.  Won't be a cornerstone of any deal.

 

Adding Emmerton - A fourth line center for a first-line center?  I think not.

 

Adding Miller - Again, the Avs don't want spare parts for one of their best players.  Would not get the job done alone.

 

My guess?  He goes to either Toronto or Ottawa.  Greatest need combined with excellent prospect pools to deal from.  Our talent is at enough of a premium as it is.  We need a solid, top-line, two-way D-man who can run the power play, and another scorer to provide more on the PP.  O'Reilly only satisfies one of those.  No need to sell the farm for him, which is what it will require.


Edited by DetroitRedWings1993, 14 February 2013 - 01:32 PM.

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is rated PG-13 for epic battle sequences.


#48 Nightfall

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:29 PM

I'd love for this deal to go down, but I just don't think it will.  All talk I've heard concerns teams in the East, and Ottawa and Toronto will go HARD after O'Reilly and have more attractive prospects, most likely.  That being said, some of the deals I've seen presented:

 

Either Franzen or Filpulla - The Avs want youth, and Franzen doesn't fit the bill.  Injury-prone and inconsistent, too.  Filpulla would be an attrcative piece, but I'd rather keep him.  He and O'Reilly are very similar and losing one for the other would be a wash, most likely.

 

Nyquist and a first - A steep price for a guy who's relatively unproven and wants around 5 mil. a year.  Considering this is a very deep draft, picks are very valuable in most rounds.  Not to mention Nyquist hasn't really had a chance to earn his salt in the big leagues.  Avs might do it if this the best offer.  Probably won't be, though. 

 

Tatar and a second - Not even close to enough to get the Avs to move a player with #1-center potential.  Doesn't fit their demands.

 

Adding Andersson - Decent, but not overwhelming player.  Avs probably don't want a checker for an offensive force.

 

Adding Sheahan - DUI incident hurts his trade value.  Won't be a cornerstone of any deal.

 

Adding Emmerton - A fourth line center for a top-line talent?  I think not.

 

Adding Miller - Again, the Avs don't want spare parts for one of their best players.  Would not get the job done alone.

 

My guess?  He goes to either Toronto or Ottawa.  Greatest need combined with excellent prospect pools to deal from.  Our talent is at enough of a premium as it is.  We need a solid, top-line, two-way D-man who can run the power play, and another scorer to provide more on the PP.  O'Reilly only satisfies one of those.  No need to sell the farm for him, which is what it will require.

 

This!

 

Also, you have to consider that he is still unsigned.  He wants $5 million a season and I don't think he is worth that much for someone who has had one great season.  PK Subban wanted the big money and settled for less when his team was doing well without him.  OReilly has the leverage of his team being in last place in the Western Conference.  So even if the Wings traded away Flip and Nyquist to get him, they would still need to sign him which I know Holland isn't going to do at $5 million a season.


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#49 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:38 PM

This!

 

Also, you have to consider that he is still unsigned.  He wants $5 million a season and I don't think he is worth that much for someone who has had one great season.  PK Subban wanted the big money and settled for less when his team was doing well without him.  OReilly has the leverage of his team being in last place in the Western Conference.  So even if the Wings traded away Flip and Nyquist to get him, they would still need to sign him which I know Holland isn't going to do at $5 million a season.

Re-signing him may not be that big a deal, as we have money coming off the books after this year.  However, some of that money belongs to Fil and Howie, and I think both guys should be re-signed.  Acquiring O'Reilly, keeping Fil, and then subsequently losing Fil in the offseason doesn't make sense.  May as well have traded Fil to get O'Reilly.

 

O'Reilly's not a rental.  If we get him, he's in for the long haul.  Iginla is more of a rental-type acquisition.  Re-signing him at his current price would be very tough to do considering our free agent situation.


Edited by DetroitRedWings1993, 14 February 2013 - 01:40 PM.

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is rated PG-13 for epic battle sequences.


#50 Nightfall

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:55 PM

Re-signing him may not be that big a deal, as we have money coming off the books after this year.  However, some of that money belongs to Fil and Howie, and I think both guys should be re-signed.  Acquiring O'Reilly, keeping Fil, and then subsequently losing Fil in the offseason doesn't make sense.  May as well have traded Fil to get O'Reilly.

 

O'Reilly's not a rental.  If we get him, he's in for the long haul.  Iginla is more of a rental-type acquisition.  Re-signing him at his current price would be very tough to do considering our free agent situation.

 

I agree, I just don't see O'Reilly worth $5 million a season for a single great year.  Consistency is everything.  I just don't see it from this kid. 


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#51 RWHockey

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:23 PM

This from ESPN....

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

If you ever want to talk to Ryan O'Reilly after a hockey practice, be prepared to wait. In the past, when other Colorado Avalanche players were already on the way to their cars in the parking lot after practice, O'Reilly was often still on the ice.

When Kevin Shattenkirk was still with the Avalanche, sometimes he would aid O'Reilly in a drill the young center dreamed up. Or just watch out of curiosity.

"He's on the ice an extra, at least, half-hour every day," Shattenkirk said. "Working on the weirdest things."

For example?

"In the slot, he would sauce a puck at the net, take another [puck] and try to shoot it out of the air with another puck," he said. "He'd have two pucks going."

In another post-practice drill session, O'Reilly would have Shattenkirk fire pucks in the air at him so he could knock them down and try to get off a quick shot. Over and over and over.

"It's just little skills like that you never even think to work on," Shattenkirk said. "He does it every day. For that reason, he's pretty mature beyond his years."

When you talk to former teammates about O'Reilly's worth as his holdout now drags into the second quarter of the season, they explain that it goes beyond the 55 points he put up in 2011-12, his best season. It's the tireless work ethic to improve, along with being beloved in the dressing room, mixed in with a growing offensive stature and strong two-way game. Along with his on-ice production, it's a combination that should now make the 22-year-old highly desirable on the trade market.



#52 e_prime

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:27 AM

^ but where is he now? 

 

This is a nice story about O'Reilly's work ethic when he's got himself a contract, but currently he's a hold out and that can be viewed by many as a "bad attitude" or "bad teammate."

 

I think he could be a great player, but I wouldn't throw $5 million a season at him just yet.

 

Adrian Dater (Avs writer) offers up this analysis, which I think sums up nicely the counterpoints for all the "IS COLORADO DUMB OR WHAT!?!? SIGN THIS GUY ALREADY" analysis that's out there.

(Dater even admits to some of that analysis himself.)

 

 
I am a mean sarcastic writer sometimes. Just the way I am, take it or leave it. But I pride myself in being fair.


So I was thinking today: I’ve been a little tough on the Avs in the Ryan O’Reilly situation. Ripping on them for take-it-or-leave it offers and essentially saying “How can you not sign this guy?” But I also think it’s fair to try and put forth a counterargument as to why the Avs may be in the right for taking a hard line in salary talks.


Let me, therefore, be fair and point out a few things about O’Reilly,  maybe try to channel the Avs and their thinking a bit. I’m not saying this is what they are thinking. I’m saying I’m going to channel them as best I can.


Here goes:

- O’Reilly wants to be paid like a 30-goal scorer in this league. He scored 39 goals his first three years in the league. He’s never even scored 20. Guys who steal a few pucks and score 15-20 goals are great (his career high is 18, last year), but they aren’t $5 million a year players.


- O’Reilly is basing all his salary demands on one good year. He wants at least $5 million a year for one good year. But he’s played three. Sorry, kid, but you haven’t proven yourself enough yet to get that kind of money. Besides, if you’re as good as you say you are, then you’d have taken a one- or two-year deal, played your butt off and put up another big and maybe even better year and PROVEN you’re not just a one-year wonder. Then, you would have really had the Avs by the shorthairs at the bargaining table.

Then, you would have been eligible for arbitration and pretty much gotten any salary you’d want from the arbitrator. Or, you would have forced the Avs to cry uncle, admit you’re the real deal and then gotten that long-term deal for maybe even more money than you want now.

But you want to be guaranteed huge money for a long time without truly having proven yet that you can do it consistently.


- You had your best scoring year playing with the NHL rookie of the year. (Duchene) Which came first, the chicken or the egg?


- Your camp may be ridiculing supposed friend and teammate Matt Duchene for taking a short-money contract and thereby setting a floor too low for your own self. Fine, but guess what? Matt Duchene worked his butt off this summer, got himself in incredible shape and has played great this season, and now he’s likely looking at a huge new contract before too long. Maybe the Avs even reward him already with a rich contract extension before too long, to not have to worry about keeping him down the road.


That could have been you.


Oh, and by the way: Duchene put up 132 points his first two years in the league. You put up 52 and were a combined minus-3. In fact, your career plus-minus is -4.


- Speaking of that great last season you had, can we talk about the last six games of the year? You know, the ones that were the crunch-time games, the ones that would determine if the Avs made the playoffs or not, the ones where the really great players are supposed to rise to the occasion?

Your stats for the final six games: Zero goals, one assist, -2.

Over the final 18 games, you scored two goals for us.


- How do you think you really come off to your teammates? As a team-first guy, or a me-first guy now? Think about that one hard.


OK, I’m back to my normal self again. Channel time over. I think now that I have accomplished my mission of being fair and presenting both sides.


Now, it’s up to the real parties involved to channel the rest of this story.


                                                                           

EDIT:  Formatting. The cut and paste job of the article made it impossible to read.


Edited by e_prime, 15 February 2013 - 08:32 AM.

QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#53 evilmrt

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:08 AM

The problem with so many of these young players is that they have complete douchebags for agents. Said agents convince young kids to play hardball for big $$$. See recent PK Subban nonsense.

 

They're like the scumbag washington lobbists of the NHL.

 

The way to get around that is to lay down an offer sheet. Avs won't deal with Kenny anyways, so just do it already.



#54 Johnz96

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:48 PM

I think O'Reilly is overrated, he has had only1 year in which he has produced (with numbers similar to Hudler's but O'Reilly needed a lot more ice -time tp produce them and most of you here thought Hudler wasn't worth $4mill but O'Reilly is worth more and giving up assets for???). He has never even managed a point a game in jr. He is not physical.  I don't see why anybody would consider giving him $5mill unless they like to overpay for players making it harder to sign others at what they are worth



#55 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:03 PM

I agree, I just don't see O'Reilly worth $5 million a season for a single great year.  Consistency is everything.  I just don't see it from this kid. 

We're not really sure.  He hasn't been on the ice, and hasn't had the chance to show if he can improve or show consistency.  He has the talent to.  Teams looking to acquire him are doing just that: banking on his talent and work-ethic to carry him to improvement and consistency.


Edited by DetroitRedWings1993, 15 February 2013 - 03:03 PM.

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is rated PG-13 for epic battle sequences.


#56 Nightfall

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:48 PM

We're not really sure.  He hasn't been on the ice, and hasn't had the chance to show if he can improve or show consistency.  He has the talent to.  Teams looking to acquire him are doing just that: banking on his talent and work-ethic to carry him to improvement and consistency.

 

True, I guess it depends on if you want to roll the dice on him.  I don't think he is worth it.


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#57 Johnz96

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:08 PM

I love how some people here can assume that another GM will take our scraps for a proven commodity.  These imbalanced trade propositions aren't going to fly.

If O'Reilly was drafted by the Wings he would be fighting for pecking order on the Griffs and he would be behind Tatar and Nyquist. Both are better than he is



#58 Richdg

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:33 AM

If O'Reilly was drafted by the Wings he would be fighting for pecking order on the Griffs and he would be behind Tatar and Nyquist. Both are better than he is

That is just wrong on so many levels. O'Reilly has produced more points at the NHL level than Tatar or Nyquist have at the AHL level. Big huge giant difference. he is 22-just turned that this past week, that is YOUNGER than Nyquist. At 6-0/200 he is much better equiped to handle the grind of the NHL. he is on his way to being a 70+ point per year guy. Nyquist/tatar will never be there.

Now we can like or hate the current pay schedules in pro sports, but that is what they make.



#59 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:44 AM

Depending on how bad Datsyuk's injury is, I'd say the need for O'Reilly just opened up. The defense doomed us last night, though. Several guys out of position or commiting bad turnovers numerous times. O'Reilly may be able to help with that, to an extent. Still think he goes to either Toronto or Ottawa, but this makes things interesting.

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is rated PG-13 for epic battle sequences.


#60 Richdg

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

Depending on how bad Datsyuk's injury is, I'd say the need for O'Reilly just opened up. The defense doomed us last night, though. Several guys out of position or commiting bad turnovers numerous times. O'Reilly may be able to help with that, to an extent. Still think he goes to either Toronto or Ottawa, but this makes things interesting.

Best defense is a good offense. If we have the puck, then of course the other team doesn't. That helps our D. Even if datsyuk is playing we still need more talent across the board.







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