46 replies to this topic

[GMRwings1983]

Neither one of em are better defensively than Sid. I'd say in 10 years, Sid can easily be a multiple time Selke winner when he's not as good offensively anymore.

 

05-06 ove-106 points crosby-102 points

06-07 ove-92 points crosby-120 points

07-08 ove-112 points crosby-72 points (53 games, but ppg was the same for the year) malkin 106 points

08-09 ove-110 points crosby-103 points malkin-113 points

09-10 ove-109 points crosby-109 points (ove played 9 less games though)

 

ya cosby is sooooo much better

 

Edit: ove +78/career crosby +81/career

yes +/- isn't always accurate but that is pretty close if you ask me, and ove doesn't  have nearly as good a team around him as crosby does

 

Why didn't you look at 2011 and 2012 stats?  PPG I mean?

 

Is it because Crosby has become even better when healthy, while Ovie's numbers have decreased?  

[Euro_Twins]

Why didn't you look at 2011 and 2012 stats?  PPG I mean?

 

Is it because Crosby has become even better when healthy, while Ovie's numbers have decreased?  

 

Crosby didn't play a full season with both seasons combined, and yes I have mentioned several times about oves down streak (which I believe to be a result of Crosby being injured, he always liked to compete for points with him)

[Z Winged Dangler]

If Crosby plays a full season, he puts up much higher numbers than all those guys.  He was on a feverish pace a few years ago before his injury.  There is nobody better than him when healthy.  

 

As for the topic, I'm not sure I'd put Hank on the top five Swedes of all time at this point in his career.  And there are many 32 year olds better than him in the NHL currently.  

 

Maybe Gretzky was just being nice.  

 

Maybe Gretzky respects Z a great deal cause he battles harder than most people in the NHL on a regular basis and has one of the best 2 way games in the history of the NHL, not unlike our boy Yzerman.

And to add to things, to hell with the regular season.  Since the lockout, NO ONE in the NHL has more playoff points than Z.

 

Boom goes the dynamite!

Edited by Z Winged Dangler, 01 February 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[kook_10]

Maybe Gretzky respects Z a great deal cause he battles harder than most people in the NHL on a regular basis and has one of the best 2 way games in the history of the NHL, not unlike our boy Yzerman.

And to add to things, to hell with the regular season.  Since the lockout, NO ONE in the NHL has more playoff points than Z.

 

Boom goes the dynamite!

 

 

No one has more playoff points because everyone has zero.   

 

Oh, you meant that other lockout.

Edited by kook_10, 01 February 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Z Winged Dangler]

No one has more playoff points because everyone has zero. 

 

Oh, you meant that other lockout.

 

smartass.  yeah, the last one.

[GMRwings1983]

Maybe Gretzky respects Z a great deal cause he battles harder than most people in the NHL on a regular basis and has one of the best 2 way games in the history of the NHL, not unlike our boy Yzerman.

And to add to things, to hell with the regular season.  Since the lockout, NO ONE in the NHL has more playoff points than Z.

 

Boom goes the dynamite!

 

He's indeed been great in the playoffs.    

 

But to make that statement, you should look at PPG, rather than overall playoff points.  Detroit has probably had more playoff games than any other team since the lockout.  

 

With that said, I would rank him the best playoff performer since the lockout in the NHL.

[Z Winged Dangler]

He's indeed been great in the playoffs.    

 

But to make that statement, you should look at PPG, rather than overall playoff points.  Detroit has probably had more playoff games than any other team since the lockout.  

 

With that said, I would rank him the best playoff performer since the lockout in the NHL.

 

The longer his beard gets the better he plays.  It's like that things takes over him like Dr. Octavious' robot arms or Chris Griffins pimple.....but in a good way.

[toby91_ca]

1-1.5 mil under what Crosby's making. All 3 had ridiculously good years but still not comparable to a 100% not concussed Crosby. Plus Sid's better defensively than any of them

A ppg difference of 0.15 is actually fairly significant, but I'm assuming you are looking at career ppg vs. more current.  At the time Crosby got hurt, he was operarting at a pace that would get him 130-140pts, or more since he was slow out of the gate to start.  The scoring champ these days gets about 105pts or so.

 

I have no doubt that a healthy Crosby would very likely put up significantly more points than anyone else in the league, but the big question is whether there will be a healthy Crosby.  Looks like he is off to a fairly sluggish start by his standards, but you can't really take much from that due to the circumstances.  If he's still sluggish in a month or so, then I think people in Pittsburgh might start getting a little concerned.

[Euro_Twins]

A ppg difference of 0.15 is actually fairly significant, but I'm assuming you are looking at career ppg vs. more current.  At the time Crosby got hurt, he was operarting at a pace that would get him 130-140pts, or more since he was slow out of the gate to start.  The scoring champ these days gets about 105pts or so.

 

I have no doubt that a healthy Crosby would very likely put up significantly more points than anyone else in the league, but the big question is whether there will be a healthy Crosby.  Looks like he is off to a fairly sluggish start by his standards, but you can't really take much from that due to the circumstances.  If he's still sluggish in a month or so, then I think people in Pittsburgh might start getting a little concerned.

 

I think that someone who gets 100+ points a season should get about the same amount of money as Crosby, simple as that, anywhere over a ppg and you are a superstar and deserve more money than anyone else. If Z and D can get 7mil a year, malkin can have 8.7

[RedWingsDad]

Crosby has the highest points per game of any active player. He could easily have had 100+ pts for every single season of his career if he had the durability. I'm not hopping on the proverbial Crosby train, but I'm also not hopping on the all things-Crosby hate train. He's by far the best player in the game when healthy and unless you're a Philly fan there's no denial.

 

The ability to not get injured is an intangible that Corsby doesn't have much of. Avoiding big hits, for example,  is a definite skill and part of being a good hockey player.  There could have been many more legendary hockey players if we played 'what could have been' and filled in their game missed due to injury with their stats 'when healthy'. Point is, let's not give Crosby credit for what could have been. On the stats page, where it matters, there are better players than him the last few years.

Edited by RedWingsDad, 01 February 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[toby91_ca]

I think that someone who gets 100+ points a season should get about the same amount of money as Crosby, simple as that, anywhere over a ppg and you are a superstar and deserve more money than anyone else. If Z and D can get 7mil a year, malkin can have 8.7

So, you think that somone who scores 100pts should get paid the "about the same amount of money" as someone who scores 200pts?  Unrealistic example, I know, but trying to understand your point.  If Crosby scores 140+ pts, I think he's worth more money than someone who scores 100pts.

 

The thing is, people will show why someone that scores 90pts should make signifcantly more than someone than scores 50pts, why is that so different? 

 

I'm not a big fan of the amount of money Z is currently making though.  Not so much for the past few years, but he has a cap hit of $6.1M for 8 years after this season.  Assuming he plays that long, he won't be worth that kind of money for much longer.  However, I guess it goes away if he retires early (hence the loophole).

[Euro_Twins]

So, you think that somone who scores 100pts should get paid the "about the same amount of money" as someone who scores 200pts?  Unrealistic example, I know, but trying to understand your point.  If Crosby scores 140+ pts, I think he's worth more money than someone who scores 100pts.

 

The thing is, people will show why someone that scores 90pts should make signifcantly more than someone than scores 50pts, why is that so different? 

 

I'm not a big fan of the amount of money Z is currently making though.  Not so much for the past few years, but he has a cap hit of $6.1M for 8 years after this season.  Assuming he plays that long, he won't be worth that kind of money for much longer.  However, I guess it goes away if he retires early (hence the loophole).

 

You keep reverting back to that 40 point difference. When in reality Crosby has yet to hit 140 points, he hit 120 once, but not 140 ever. Sure he was on pace for 120-130 points when he was injured, but what if he wasnt injured, and he hit a 7-8 game point slump, the fact is its more like a 10 point difference in points until he puts up more than 120 points. So it is like saying someone who scores 90 points should get relatively the same as a 75-80 point scorer, which isn't too far off.

[Z Winged Dangler]

So, you think that somone who scores 100pts should get paid the "about the same amount of money" as someone who scores 200pts?  Unrealistic example, I know, but trying to understand your point.  If Crosby scores 140+ pts, I think he's worth more money than someone who scores 100pts.
 
The thing is, people will show why someone that scores 90pts should make signifcantly more than someone than scores 50pts, why is that so different? 
 
I'm not a big fan of the amount of money Z is currently making though.  Not so much for the past few years, but he has a cap hit of $6.1M for 8 years after this season.  Assuming he plays that long, he won't be worth that kind of money for much longer.  However, I guess it goes away if he retires early (hence the loophole).

As much as it sucks to say, my boy Z doesnt have 8 years left in his back and his last 2 or so seasons is 1 mil per is it not? So while we have him he'll be worth the money. Especially the way he carries himself and often the team in the playoffs

[toby91_ca]

You keep reverting back to that 40 point difference. When in reality Crosby has yet to hit 140 points, he hit 120 once, but not 140 ever. Sure he was on pace for 120-130 points when he was injured, but what if he wasnt injured, and he hit a 7-8 game point slump, the fact is its more like a 10 point difference in points until he puts up more than 120 points. So it is like saying someone who scores 90 points should get relatively the same as a 75-80 point scorer, which isn't too far off.

Yeah, I get that, I'm referring to it because that's where he was when he got hurt and he put up that pace when he came back last year.  You are right though, he hasn't done it yet.

 

The thing I look at as well though, is that different players seem to come and go in terms of being near the top of the scoring race year after year.  Crosby seems to be there every single year with the only exception being due to injury.  The concussion thing appears to have come by fluke though, the problem is that it was a concussion, not the type of injury you can necessarily 100% recover from and never worry about again (we just don't know).

As much as it sucks to say, my boy Z doesnt have 8 years left in his back and his last 2 or so seasons is 1 mil per is it not? So while we have him he'll be worth the money. Especially the way he carries himself and often the team in the playoffs

I was thinking about the cap hit though, not the actually salary.  If you look at actual salary, he's not worth what he's "currently" getting paid.

[shoobiedoobin]

Neither one of em are better defensively than Sid. I'd say in 10 years, Sid can easily be a multiple time Selke winner when he's not as good offensively anymore.

None of them play defense so it doesn't really matter. It's like comparing 3 Range Rovers and then talking about gas mileage. It's just not something any of them are good at and it's not the focal point. Granted Sid is the only one who will try but trying doesn't equal playing defense. He'll skate into his own zone but doesn't quite know how to read a play or play D like true Selke winners.

[Z Winged Dangler]

Yeah, I get that, I'm referring to it because that's where he was when he got hurt and he put up that pace when he came back last year.  You are right though, he hasn't done it yet.

 

The thing I look at as well though, is that different players seem to come and go in terms of being near the top of the scoring race year after year.  Crosby seems to be there every single year with the only exception being due to injury.  The concussion thing appears to have come by fluke though, the problem is that it was a concussion, not the type of injury you can necessarily 100% recover from and never worry about again (we just don't know).

I was thinking about the cap hit though, not the actually salary.  If you look at actual salary, he's not worth what he's "currently" getting paid.

 

YES HE IS!  

 

Z's beard > Crosby's headaches.  I feel I have made my point. 

[dirtydangles]

5 point night tonight. making his case lol

[GMRwings1983]

5 point night tonight. making his case lol

 

 

Crosby laughs at mere trivialities

 

 

[irishock]

Well, Z's game tonight certainly didn't help with my hockey takes. Lol. Much rather be wrong than be right in that case.

[Mickey Redmond]

This Zetterberg thread is awesome