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Superman54

Bottom Six

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In 8 games our bottom 6 forwards have tallied 0 goals, n' 1 assist (which was on the pp for Eaves). I know with the absence of Helm we could see a bit of a struggle, but apparently we need him healthy to see anything coming from our secondary scoring. Its almost at the part Babs needs to shake things up... Our PK is bad enough where its hard for me to justify Cleary, Miller, and Emmerton being dressed every night. If theres no fight to make this roster, then I dont see some players giving it their best to stay on it. He's got to create more competition, I mean Dats and Zetterberg can only do so much.

Thoughts?

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The absence of Helm and Samuelsson pulls away resources from the 3rd line. Cleary's disappearance has also not helped.

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Might want to load up Miller - Helm - Eaves on the third and go with Cleary - Abdelkader - Tootoo on the bottom line. Babs would never demote Cleary though.

What I'd like to see is an Abdelkader - Helm - Eaves 3rd line but that leaves us with nothing much on the fourth and Cleary/Sammy unused. I just think these guys can put up some much needed scoring together.

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Bring up Sheahan and Nyquist

Eventually they will. But, It's not a dire enough situation to call them up and lose assets for nothing. You can only have 23 players on the roster, and these guys have proven to be productive enough bottom six players(outside of Emmerton) that they will be given the opportunity to prove themselves over a longer stretch than 8 games.

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Not much Babcock can do other than benching someone. He has to use the roster he's given. A shakeup at this point falls on Holland's desk, a change in personnel.

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With helm back we get some more depth, but I still would rather have him in the future as a supercenter on the forth line with Abby - Helm - Eaves/Tootoo and then bring up Sheahan or Jarnkrok to center the third line and get some production out of our third line next year with an injection of youth.

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Brunner

Nyquist - Filppula - Franzen

Tatar - Jarnkrok - Bert

Abby - Helm - Eaves/Tootoo

Buyout Sammy let Cleary go (he's done).

Not many teams could match that forward depth with Having Emmerton/Andersson and Tootoo as 13/14 guys.

Its also a cost effective lineup. Can spend money on the back end.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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I posted this in the "pk issue" thread at about the same time this thread got going. It seems relevant here:

What we need is another legit bottom 6 centre man to carry the 4th line the way Helm carries the 3rd.

The Wings have always been strong down the middle. This year the depth isn't there, and it's showing.

Emmerton sucks, and Abdeldkader is a 4th line winger. With those 2 at centre,it's not hard to see why our bottom 6 have only got the 1 point. There's also no point having Tootoo if he can't play special teams.

so my PK would have Helm/MIller 1st unit

Legit 4th line centre/ Eaves 2nd unit.

bottom 6: Cleary/Helm/Bertuzzi

MIller/ Mystery centerman/Eaves

I won't win any of you over cutting Abby and Tootoo, but for (almost) twice the cost, can you really say that they're better than Miller and Eaves? Especially on the PK.

Who do I have in mind for my 4th line centre? Nobody on the Griffins, and I don't know enough about the other teams to say. But we do have plenty of bottom 6 depth to trade.

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I posted this in the "pk issue" thread at about the same time this thread got going. It seems relevant here:

What we need is another legit bottom 6 centre man to carry the 4th line the way Helm carries the 3rd.

The Wings have always been strong down the middle. This year the depth isn't there, and it's showing.

Emmerton sucks, and Abdeldkader is a 4th line winger. With those 2 at centre,it's not hard to see why our bottom 6 have only got the 1 point. There's also no point having Tootoo if he can't play special teams.

so my PK would have Helm/MIller 1st unit

Legit 4th line centre/ Eaves 2nd unit.

bottom 6: Cleary/Helm/Bertuzzi

MIller/ Mystery centerman/Eaves

I won't win any of you over cutting Abby and Tootoo, but for (almost) twice the cost, can you really say that they're better than Miller and Eaves? Especially on the PK.

Who do I have in mind for my 4th line centre? Nobody on the Griffins, and I don't know enough about the other teams to say. But we do have plenty of bottom 6 depth to trade.

if you see my post above, I think we should make helm a super-4th line center and have massive reliance on our 4th line as energy and luxury. Bringing up Jarnkrok for 3rd line (ala filppula) and turning our 4th line into a scoring threat could achieve that. Only problem is our third line would be small and inexperienced but that could be worked on.

EDIT: of course this would happen next year.

Edited by dirtydangles

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I never thought I would say this but I miss Sammy. I have never been a huge Samuelsson fan but he can provide secondary scoring. If I am Babs, I would sit Cleary....sorry to all the fans of 11,but he has been terrible. He turns the puck over constantly. He makes misguided decisions with the puck....and he has lost a step. He and Miller have been the biggest disappointments so far.

When Helm is back wit h Samuelsson, bring up Nyqvist and sit Cleary. To me he is the obvious choice although I know he is fan fav and he is trying but at this point, he is a liability even in his own end where he was an asset.

Wing-in-avs-town likes this

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I never thought I would say this but I miss Sammy. I have never been a huge Samuelsson fan but he can provide secondary scoring. If I am Babs, I would sit Cleary....sorry to all the fans of 11,but he has been terrible. He turns the puck over constantly. He makes misguided decisions with the puck....and he has lost a step. He and Miller have been the biggest disappointments so far.

When Helm is back wit h Samuelsson, bring up Nyqvist and sit Cleary. To me he is the obvious choice although I know he is fan fav and he is trying but at this point, he is a liability even in his own end where he was an asset.

I think everyone is with you on this one. Looking back at every GDT you see Cleary getting trashed because he just can't cut it anymore physically and he doesn't have the size to go on like Bert. He needs to go now, we can't afford to be sentimental on this one.

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I never thought I would say this but I miss Sammy. I have never been a huge Samuelsson fan but he can provide secondary scoring. If I am Babs, I would sit Cleary....sorry to all the fans of 11,but he has been terrible. He turns the puck over constantly. He makes misguided decisions with the puck....and he has lost a step. He and Miller have been the biggest disappointments so far.

When Helm is back wit h Samuelsson, bring up Nyqvist and sit Cleary. To me he is the obvious choice although I know he is fan fav and he is trying but at this point, he is a liability even in his own end where he was an asset.

I've really liked Dan Cleary, but m God he gets kocked off the puck now like never before. Vs Columbus somebody sent him flying through the air. It's got to be a leg/knee issue. If this is the case, playing him is not doing anybody any good except our opponents. You're exactly right; sit him and bring someone else up to get experience and most likely be as effective or more.

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I've really liked Dan Cleary, but m God he gets kocked off the puck now like never before. Vs Columbus somebody sent him flying through the air. It's got to be a leg/knee issue. If this is the case, playing him is not doing anybody any good except our opponents. You're exactly right; sit him and bring someone else up to get experience and most likely be as effective or more.

It's sad to see because he is a heart and soul guy but I agree with dirty dangles....we can't be sentimental about it....the season is too short to have him waste up a space on the roster. Cleary has to go.

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Gee, I have been off the Cleary bus for a couple of years now, nice to see the folks catching on...I do agree though, he is worse now than he has ever been...Before I just didn't like him on the top 6, but now I don't like him on this team. Either waive him or trade him for a draft pick...maybe he can go to a young team a be a vet. leader in the lockeroom...maybe. Either way he MUST NOT BE RE-SIGNED!!!

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Gee, I have been off the Cleary bus for a couple of years now, nice to see the folks catching on...I do agree though, he is worse now than he has ever been...Before I just didn't like him on the top 6, but now I don't like him on this team. Either waive him or trade him for a draft pick...maybe he can go to a young team a be a vet. leader in the lockeroom...maybe. Either way he MUST NOT BE RE-SIGNED!!!

A couple of years ago he scored 26 goals in 68 games and was leading the team in goals before getting injured

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A couple of years ago he scored 26 goals in 68 games and was leading the team in goals before getting injured

Thats cool but hes not doing it anymore. Might as well bring stevie back cause he won cups for us in the last 2 decades. When a guy is done hes done.

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Thats cool but hes not doing it anymore. Might as well bring stevie back cause he won cups for us in the last 2 decades. When a guy is done hes done.

People were saying that about Selanne when he played for Colorado 9 years ago although I must admit Cleary hasn't looked good for the few games so far this year and last year but apparently he was playing on 1 leg last year and maybe he doesn't have his leg strength back yet

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People were saying that about Selanne when he played for Colorado 9 years ago although I must admit Cleary hasn't looked good for the few games so far this year and last year but apparently he was playing on 1 leg last year and maybe he doesn't have his leg strength back yet

That was after one "bad" year, where he still managed 16 goals. Cleary had a bad year and hasn't gotten a point in 8 games so far. Basically what you are saying is he needs a change of scenery? couldn't agree more

Not to mention Cleary got 26 goals once, and 20 goals twice. He has never been even a 50 point producer, Selanne's bad year would be a pretty decent year for Cleary, you shouldn't compare them.

Edited by Euro_Twins

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That was after one "bad" year, where he still managed 16 goals. Cleary had a bad year and hasn't gotten a point in 8 games so far. Basically what you are saying is he needs a change of scenery? couldn't agree more

Not to mention Cleary got 26 goals once, and 20 goals twice. He has never been even a 50 point producer, Selanne's bad year would be a pretty decent year for Cleary, you shouldn't compare them.

Cleary scored 33 points last year, one more than Selanne did with the lanche

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Cleary scored 33 points last year, one more than Selanne did with the lanche

Cleary's two best seasons were 46, and 42 points. 33 points was a decent season for him, even with the knee.

Selanne has hit 100+ points 3 times, is over a ppg for his career, and he got 40 goals and 90 points after his 32 point season. Like I said they are not comparable.

Edited by Euro_Twins
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A couple of years ago he scored 26 goals in 68 games and was leading the team in goals before getting injured

A couple of years ago I could fill up my car with 20 bucks......but thats never happening again

Euro_Twins and dirtydangles like this

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Cleary's time with Detroit is just up...He may have some more to give, but he needs to give it elsewhere because the role he has been given here is not good for him. He is not a top 6 guy on this team, I wouldn't even give him top 9 minutes on this team. He should move on to another team and maybe the fresh start will wake him up again. He is in the same boat as Franzie, they both need to move on for a fresh start they are just dragging this team down. They need to go...

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The Selanne comparison doesn't work. Corset isn't just in a scoring rut. He is visibly struggling to play the game. I'm not anti-Cleary, but if his body needs a rest, bench him and use him on a rotational basis. Whether his decline is real or just a rut, he cannot currently hang with the opposition. He trained all year and conditioned himself, but it doesn't appear to have worked. I dont mind if he stays, but he isnt doing us any good playing every game.

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