54 replies to this topic

[Crymson]

Suter

8 GP

4 points

-6 (worst on the team)

 

Weber

8 GP

0 points

-1

 

Sheesh. These two really did need each other in order to be effective.

[number9]

they were perfect compliments to each other

[Carman]

Suter has been much worse, he is just been atrocious defensively.

 

Weber just isn't producing points, but it's not all him, Nashville has 1.5 Goals a game, worst in the league by almost half a goal.

[VM1138]

Suter is the only NHL defrnseman on his team, which makes it harder to keep his stats up. Haha. Weber is probably just off to a slow start thanks to Nashville struggling.

[GoalieManPat]

200+ million well spent.

[RusDRW]

200+ million well spent.

Well Parise looks good. 6M good, not 10M good of course. 

 

PS Suter is your Brad Stuart. Weber is off to a slow start. He'll get his 40pts.

[puckbags]

Well Parise looks good. 6M good, not 10M good of course. 

 

PS Suter is your Brad Stuart. Weber is off to a slow start. He'll get his 40pts.

 

40 pts? I will willing to take all bets on that..he wouldn't get 40 pts in a 82 game season.

[kipwinger]

Neither of them are as bad as they look right now, but then again Suter isn't as good as he looked in the past.  Thank god Detroit didn't go out and spend that money on him, what a giant f***up.  Still not sure how anybody (other teams included) thought this guy was as valuable as they did.  Unreal. 

[LeftWinger]

Suter is better than what he looks, but he cannot carry a team of minor league defensemen... With all our injuries he may have been struggling here as well, but I still wish he was in Red and White instead of Green and Ivory.

[kipwinger]

Suter was going to struggle anywhere he went, once he no longer had a team full of defensively responsible forwards, in a defensively responsible system, with one of the best goalies in the league, and probably the premier defenseman in the game to make him look like a superstar. 

 

At his best he's a good defenseman, not a great one.  Gets paid like one though. 

[frankgrimes]

Suter is by far the best defenseman on the Wild, without looking it up I'd have a hardtime naming any other defenseman on that team but I do know, that they have a very promising young rookie named Brodhin. People also have to keep in mind that Suter has never been that sexy, flashy offensive defenseman he is an elite stay at home defender.

 

Up to this season Weber always had thte assurance of Suter staying back, so he could play a more offensive type of game but now he is paired with a guy, who is playing his second NHL season, so Weber has to be more defensive responsible I think that's the reason, why his point totals are down.

 

These two just completemented each other perfectly so I am not surprised they aren't that dominate, but keep in mind stats aren't always telling the whole story. Suter also has to adopt to a new coach,. system including all the pressure of being the #1 defenseman on the team.

[kipwinger]

Suter, for all intents and purposes, plays the EXACT same type of game as Brent Seabrook, and isn't noticeably better in any area than Seabrook.  Is Brent Seabrook worth 10 million dollars?  Of course not.  The only reason anybody thinks Suter is this good is because the UFA class was so thin last year.  Prior to that nobody talked about Suter as if he were one of the top 10-20 defensemen in the world.

 

Edit:  His agent, however, is certainly one of the top 10-20 in the world. 

Edited by kipwinger, 05 February 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[Euro_Twins]

Suter is by far the best defenseman on the Wild, without looking it up I'd have a hardtime naming any other defenseman on that team but I do know, that they have a very promising young rookie named Brodhin. People also have to keep in mind that Suter has never been that sexy, flashy offensive defenseman he is an elite stay at home defender.

 

Up to this season Weber always had thte assurance of Suter staying back, so he could play a more offensive type of game but now he is paired with a guy, who is playing his second NHL season, so Weber has to be more defensive responsible I think that's the reason, why his point totals are down.

 

These two just completemented each other perfectly so I am not surprised they aren't that dominate, but keep in mind stats aren't always telling the whole story. Suter also has to adopt to a new coach,. system including all the pressure of being the #1 defenseman on the team.

 

Ya, I agree with this. I also believe Suter and Kronwall would have complimented each other very well, and would have made a dangerous dup on the blueline. With that aside, he isn't very good as the #1 guy, he is showing now without Weber he is not elite, and not worth the money

[haroldsnepsts]

I've always thought Suter looked better because of Weber, but 8 games seems a tad premature to pass judgement on how much their success was tied to one another. 

[shoobiedoobin]

Suter was going to struggle anywhere he went, once he no longer had a team full of defensively responsible forwards, in a defensively responsible system, with one of the best goalies in the league, and probably the premier defenseman in the game to make him look like a superstar. 

 

At his best he's a good defenseman, not a great one.  Gets paid like one though. 

That's easy to say but every time I watched them I saw Suter being more responbsible than Weber. I dunno why we don't talk about it more but Weber sometimes gets caught going for the big hit, much of the time at the blue line. It was Suter who was there to sweep up the mess. When Suter was out, Weber never quite looked as effective but when Weber was out Suter looked fine. Granted I agree with the part about the team but I think that's really all it is. You can't just stare at numbers, you have to watch them and Suter hasn't looked as bad as his numbers indicate. I think he would've been fine here. Now would we have overpaid? Sure, but you have to overpay if you want good players nowadays. So you save up as long as you can until you can afford to splurge on that one important piece. And that contract isn't for 8 games, it's for many years. I have a hard time believing Suter just forgot how to be effective in 8 games. More than likely he would've done fine here .

[kipwinger]

I've always thought Suter looked better because of Weber, but 8 games seems a tad premature to pass judgement on how much their success was tied to one another. 

 

I understand what you're saying and it makes sense, but I don't think it's premature to pass any judgements, it's just premature to form conclusions.  It's not unrealistic to expect "elite" players to play like it when they move from one set of line mates to another, or one system to another.  Maybe a slight slump is anticipated, but certainly there's every expectation that a star will continue to be a star once he's been moved.  It's not unreasonable to expect Suter to play like a number one defender if that's what he really is, and for any noticeable lapses in defense to come from the half assed d-corps they put around him.  That would be fair.  But he hasn't looked that good, on his own merit, thus far.  Certainly not like the elite top partner guy he's getting paid to be. 

[Euro_Twins]

I understand what you're saying and it makes sense, but I don't think it's premature to pass any judgements, it's just premature to form conclusions.  It's not unrealistic to expect "elite" players to play like it when they move from one set of line mates to another, or one system to another.  Maybe a slight slump is anticipated, but certainly there's every expectation that a star will continue to be a star once he's been moved.  It's not unreasonable to expect Suter to play like a number one defender if that's what he really is, and for any noticeable lapses in defense to come from the half assed d-corps they put around him.  That would be fair.  But he hasn't looked that good, on his own merit, thus far.  Certainly not like the elite top partner guy he's getting paid to be. 

 

not to mention Parise is playing insanely well, like he should be for what he is getting paid, that transition should be almost seemless

[haroldsnepsts]

I understand what you're saying and it makes sense, but I don't think it's premature to pass any judgements, it's just premature to form conclusions.  It's not unrealistic to expect "elite" players to play like it when they move from one set of line mates to another, or one system to another.  Maybe a slight slump is anticipated, but certainly there's every expectation that a star will continue to be a star once he's been moved.  It's not unreasonable to expect Suter to play like a number one defender if that's what he really is, and for any noticeable lapses in defense to come from the half assed d-corps they put around him.  That would be fair.  But he hasn't looked that good, on his own merit, thus far.  Certainly not like the elite top partner guy he's getting paid to be. 

 

Don't get me wrong, based on what little I've seen and heard of Suter's performance to date, I certainly wouldn't be happy with his play so far given his paycheck. 

 

But the OP was drawing conclusions about how tied to one another Suter and Weber's success was.  It could ultimately be true, but given all the variables involved, 8 games is a ridiculously small sample to draw any reasonable conclusions about that.  Especially when we're coming off a lockout into a shortened season with no real training camp. 

[kipwinger]

That's easy to say but every time I watched them I saw Suter being more responbsible than Weber. I dunno why we don't talk about it more but Weber sometimes gets caught going for the big hit, much of the time at the blue line. It was Suter who was there to sweep up the mess. When Suter was out, Weber never quite looked as effective but when Weber was out Suter looked fine. Granted I agree with the part about the team but I think that's really all it is. You can't just stare at numbers, you have to watch them and Suter hasn't looked as bad as his numbers indicate. I think he would've been fine here. Now would we have overpaid? Sure, but you have to overpay if you want good players nowadays. So you save up as long as you can until you can afford to splurge on that one important piece. And that contract isn't for 8 games, it's for many years. I have a hard time believing Suter just forgot how to be effective in 8 games. More than likely he would've done fine here .

 

He's better defensively than Weber?  Maybe.  Or maybe he played back because he just wasn't as good offensively as Weber.  I don't really know, and I don't really think comparing the two yields any meaningful results.  Obviously, Weber will look worse with Suter out, anytime you go from playing with a pretty good defender to a worse one, your play will look worse.  That makes sense, but that doesn't make Suter elite.  He isn't.  I hear what you're saying, and I'm not trying to sit here and put Weber on a pedestal because I honestly don't think most hockey players are as good as their hype.  All I'm trying to do is knock Suter off the pedestal that a weak UFA class put him on. 

Don't get me wrong, based on what little I've seen and heard of Suter's performance to date, I certainly wouldn't be happy with his play so far given his paycheck. 

 

But the OP was drawing conclusions about how tied to one another Suter and Weber's success was.  It could ultimately be true, but given all the variables involved, 8 games is a ridiculously small sample to draw any reasonable conclusions about that.  Especially when we're coming off a lockout into a shortened season with no real training camp. 

 

Fair enough, I can agree with that.  As I said in my first post.  Neither of them are as bad as they look right now.  I just wanted to explore the idea that Suter isn't as good as he's ever looked before.

Edited by kipwinger, 05 February 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[Euro_Twins]

He's better defensively than Weber?  Maybe.  Or maybe he played back because he just wasn't as good offensively as Weber.  I don't really know, and I don't really think comparing the two yields any meaningful results.  Obviously, Weber will look worse with Suter out, anytime you go from playing with a pretty good defender to a worse one, your play will look worse.  That makes sense, but that doesn't make Suter elite.  He isn't.  I hear what you're saying, and I'm not trying to sit here and put Weber on a pedestal because I honestly don't think most hockey players are as good as their hype.  All I'm trying to do is knock Suter off the pedestal that a weak UFA class put him on. 

 

Fair enough, I can agree with that.  As I said in my first post.  Neither of them are as bad as they look right now.  I just wanted to explore the idea that Suter isn't as good as he's ever looked before.

 

Datsyuk and z are as good as their hype, and Lidstrom most certainly was