Howard = Average

[frankgrimes 1,836]

At this rate a shooter trainer would give jimmy a run for his money. That said, i have high hopes for mrazek as well.

Anyone else think after Gus' big season he'll go somewhere else for a starting job/more money?

If he keeps up this stellar performance there are will for sure be a market for him.

[number9 3,297]

Mrazek's only 21. Gotta think Monster will have 2-4 more years here in the D, unless we end up going with Petr over Jimmy

[roboturner 562]

Time to bump this thread with an Update...

***This isn’t just a reaction to the game today but rather Howie’s season as a whole.***

Here is how Howard ranks in some categories. (as of 3/9/14)

Wins: 30th with 13 wins......Top 19 goalies all have 20+ wins

Overtime Loses: 1st with 10 (yes 10! overtime loses, not good)

GAA: 40th (after taking out a few guys who played less than 10 games)

SV%: 40th (again subtracted the guys with less than 10 games)

So what we have is a goalie who is CURRENTLY 30th-40th in terms of numbers compared to other NHL Goalies and has the most overtime/SO loses (meaning he isn't very clutch when the time comes).

I stressed Currently because you can argue about what he did in the past or what he might do in the future, but RIGHT NOW he is not very good. and nowhere near ELITE, unless you consider being the 30th best goalie in the league elite!

30th-40th doesn't even get you to Average, Thread title should now be Howard = Well Below Average

And I understand that it's not 100% his fault, the rest of the team has some impact on these numbers, but that only gets you so far. I mean Ryan Miller was putting up better numbers in BUF and they have a really s***ty team.

Most of the other goalies in the league have to deal with:

the same kind of bounces

the same kind of deflections and

to some extent the same times when your offense doesn't show up that Howie faces, so that's no excuse for his #'s being so low.

Bottom Line, we need better goaltending if our team isn’t going to be scoring too many goals, Howard just isn’t getting the job done.

*Important* Just because some of us posters are criticizing his game doesn't mean we are rooting for him to play poorly. I sincerely hope he turns it around and has some good games and if he does I'd be more than willing to applaud him for it.

I'm not trying to bash on Howard or place the team's struggles solely on him, but given his current #'s the criticism is warranted and a discussion about where the team should go at the Goalie position moving forward is also warranted. I'm more than willing to give him the time to prove himself again but if he is still struggling like this through some portion of next season then a decision is going to have to be made regarding his future with the team.

Edited March 9, 2014 by roboturner

[dirtydangles 1,328]

There was some discussion in the GDT today about his rebound control and puck handling skills having an affect on the outcome of games. There HAS to be a reason why the team scores about 1 goal per game more in front of monster than howard. Often times I see a soft dump in that howie steers to the corner where the dman has to dig it out while the forecheck comes hard on them. Monster seems more capable of controlling that puck and settling it down for the dman to break out of the zone and defeat the forecheck. Thats just what I see. We seem to get trapped in our zone less. Howard also tends (in my opinion) to leave rebounds out on top of his crease that lead to mad scrambles in front of the net (especially in the last minutes of periods) whereas Monster has kicked more rebounds out wide or absorbed them.

Worst of all I have seen howard give up on plays in 2 recent games where it lead directly to a goal (once in NJ). If anything, when down on your luck you should put in a full effort to give yourself a shot at success.

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

Howard = Our starter for the next few years.

This thread gets bumped after every hot and cold streak out of Howard. It's the same debate back and forth, over and over.

The goalie is the easiest player to blame on the ice. Today was the defense, most will disagree and argue anyway. I wonder how much more original discussion can be brought up here or if it should be renamed "The Jimmy Howard Complaining Thread".

Monster is injured, that means more Howard going forward. Like it or hate it, there aren't many options right now.

[roboturner 562]

There was some discussion in the GDT today about his rebound control and puck handling skills having an affect on the outcome of games. There HAS to be a reason why the team scores about 1 goal per game more in front of monster than howard. Often times I see a soft dump in that howie steers to the corner where the dman has to dig it out while the forecheck comes hard on them. Monster seems more capable of controlling that puck and settling it down for the dman to break out of the zone and defeat the forecheck. Thats just what I see. We seem to get trapped in our zone less. Howard also tends (in my opinion) to leave rebounds out on top of his crease that lead to mad scrambles in front of the net (especially in the last minutes of periods) whereas Monster has kicked more rebounds out wide or absorbed them.

Worst of all I have seen howard give up on plays in 2 recent games where it lead directly to a goal (once in NJ). If anything, when down on your luck you should put in a full effort to give yourself a shot at success.

Yeah I agree with all of this. It just seems like after 5 years in the league someone could have worked with him after practice or something so he would at least have some kind of passing game. I would add that he holds onto a lot of playable pucks that end up giving great scoring chances when we lose the ensuing face-off. If he played it a bit more there would be fewer face-offs for that kind of stuff to happen and we might be able to catch someone on a bad line change.

Howard = Our starter for the next few years.

This thread gets bumped after every hot and cold streak out of Howard. It's the same debate back and forth, over and over.

The goalie is the easiest player to blame on the ice. Today was the defense, most will disagree and argue anyway. I wonder how much more original discussion can be brought up here or if it should be renamed "The Jimmy Howard Complaining Thread".

Monster is injured, that means more Howard going forward. Like it or hate it, there aren't many options right now.

That's why I said this isn't just a reaction to a single recent game but a look at his stats for the whole season. It was maybe a reaction to the last goal where he looked ridiculous. But mostly it was to looking at his ranking compared to other NHL Goalies. I was just kind of shocked to see he was ranked so low in most categories. I don't see how it would be beneficial to the Wings to keep playing a Goalie who ranks so low in so many categories.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

He's not one of the elite guys but he isn't being paid like one either. Mrazek might eventually be better but for now there aren't many better options.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Mrazek's only 21. Gotta think Monster will have 2-4 more years here in the D, unless we end up going with Petr over Jimmy

2-4 years? Jesus ..... And mrazek is gonna spend 6 yrs in the ahl? I feel another prospect not being happy which I'd understand and then we trade him and lie ah la jarnkrok and say mrazek was nothing but a career backup coming if that's the case

If it's not monster I see another backup signing here for 1 year and then we bring down mrazek ...think he's 22 .... One more year in the ahl and then He backs up for a year and probably ends up playing 40 games cause howard will probably have yet again another injury and people will see his greatness

Edited March 9, 2014 by nyqvististhefuture

[toby91_ca 620]

He's not one of the elite guys but he isn't being paid like one either. Mrazek might eventually be better but for now there aren't many better options.

Pretty sure he's getting top 10 money

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Pretty sure he's getting top 10 money

He is, and I would take a handful of other goalies over him that are in his range.

1. Rinne, Pekka » G NAS 31 2012 2019 7 $7,000,000 2. Quick, Jonathan » G LAK 28 2013 2023 10 $7,000,000 3. Luongo, Roberto » G FLA 34 2010 2022 12 $6,714,000 4. Ward, Cam » G CAR 30 2010 2016 6 $6,600,000 5. Miller, Ryan » G STL 33 2009 2014 5 $6,250,000 6. Lehtonen, Kari » G DAL 30 2013 2018 5 $6,250,000 7. Rask, Tuukka » G BOS 26 2013 2021 8 $6,000,000 8. Fleury, Marc-Andre » G PIT 29 2008 2015 7 $5,750,000 9. Price, Carey » G MTL 26 2012 2018 6 $5,750,000 10. Howard, Jimmy » G DET 29 2013 2019 6 $5,500,000

[Crashnburnluder 385]

I think everyone knows Howard are playing well below where he should. What annoys me are the people that are saying trade him now, and play Gus/mrazek tandem. Like that actually is a possibility or a good idea for a tandem. Gus couldn't hold a starting role for a reason.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Howard had the 12th highest cap hit. Halak, Crawford, Hiller, and Varlemov ate free agents this summer and may pass him.

Edited March 9, 2014 by DickieDunn

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Howard had the 12th highest cap hit. Halak, Crawford, Hiller, and Varlemov ate free agents this summer and may pass him.

I would take all them except Halak over Howard.

[MabusIncarnate 5,344]

Howard had the 12th highest cap hit. Halak, Crawford, Hiller, and Varlemov ate free agents this summer and may pass him.

Literally all of them have tremendous consistency issues. Halak could never hold down a starting job, he is always in some kind of time share. Crawford was so up and down that he was questioned heavily as a starting goaltender after his first great half season. Hiller had two awful seasons and lost his starting job to Fasth last year just to pick it back up again this season.

This is the reality of goaltending. Miller has slumped for a couple months on end. Quick has done the same. Luongo had an terrible season and a half which sparked the controversy in Vancouver a couple years ago. Lundqvist had an brutal start to this season.

No goalie has ever been great at all times, all season, every season. Every goalie listed above has had struggles ranging from weeks, to months, to extending beyond one season. It happens. Roy and Brodeur, the legends of the position, have had off months and a few bad seasons.

This is a fact that must be accepted if you are a fan of hockey. It's not an excuse to protect Howard, but if we had Hiller, Halak, Varlamov, Crawford, any goalie mid to high range there will always be consistency issues and we'd have a thread just like this one about them also. Period. No goalie is 100% elite at all times, all season every season.

[RedWingsRox 614]

Yah, 1st year after big contract phenomenon ... this year is a write off for Howie. Average says it all. He'll be back next year as elite ... if not, then we'll have to talk about trading him.

[Guest DeGraa55]

On that list where is king henrik? I'm thought he is paid more than Howard?

[wings_fanatic 677]

On that list where is king henrik? I'm thought he is paid more than Howard?

He is paid more then Howard and rightfully so. That guy gets the job done on what have been some very average Rangers teams over the years.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

There is a lot of cheese tied up in salary here paying goaltenders who can't do the job.

[sjr2012 439]

i love how everyone attacks jimmy look at today it was 3-0 i didnt know goalies where suppose to score too its sad we get 7 goals with gus and none with jimmy

[Richdg 267]

Silliness.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

I'd take Hiller in a heartbeat! Just say no more to Gustavsson....his grrrrrroin is worse than Hasek's!

[Guest fat guy in a maltby jersey]

start Mrazek on Tuesday.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

Wow.... "We didn't know Goalies were supposed to score goals..." so it can't be Howard's fault then!

WAIT! Stop Everything! Rewind to 2003 first round sweep by Anaheim.....

"It's Cujo's Fault!" "Cujo sucked here" "Oh God, please not another Cujo experiment!"

...any of those quotes sound familiar? Oh BTW, Fedorov was the leading scorer on the Wings that playoff with 3, yes T.H.R.E.E. points... You guys cannot have it both ways. A lot of this season is the team's fault, but a majority of it is Howard's crap ass below average play. He cannot control a rebound, gives up the VERY untimely goal and RARELY makes the timely save when it is needed! Oh, and lets not even talk about shootouts....BTW, Monster isn't much better...

[roboturner 562]

i love how everyone attacks jimmy look at today it was 3-0 i didnt know goalies where suppose to score too its sad we get 7 goals with gus and none with jimmy

We're not attacking him over today's game. That would be stupid. We're attacking his overall numbers for the whole season. They aren't good.

I understand the want to look at each goal against individually and say "That one was tipped, not his fault." or "Not getting any help from the defense, not his fault." and in some instances that true, not all of the goals he gives up are his fault.

But at some point you have to look at his overall numbers and realized he's just not getting it done.

When he signed his new contract he was paid as a Top 10 NHL Goalie. Most of his stats currently rank him in the 30-40s, not Top 10. The guys record is 13-25 (Don't be fooled by the W-L-OL stat. A win is a win and a loss is a loss!). THIRTEEN AND TWENTY-FIVE!!! That's not the kind of record and not the kind of stats you want out of your Top 10 Starting Goalie. If it was one or the other that was bad and the other was reasonable, that might be more acceptable, but as it currently stands its just not good enough. The Team is already struggling enough as it is, we don't need a shaky goalie w/ confidence issues added to it.

Edited March 10, 2014 by roboturner

[Richdg 267]

So..... cut/trade Howard and go forward with Gus-hurt again and mrasek-getting torched tonight. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGHHHTTTTTTT............