Howard = Average

[GrindL1n3 2]

^Definitely.. I got tunnel vision right as he started to let it go. I wish I could've been his conscience for about 1 second and say "look there! another 250 degrees of possible space to play the puck and not turn it over..

[Dabura 12,206]

The thing I don't like about him trying to play the puck more in these past two games is that, by his own admission, it's because he saw Mrazek do it and he thought it was great. Which is fine. I'm all for trying to improve your game and become a more complete player. Just save it for later, i.e. after the playoffs. Don't experiment against the frickin' Bruins. He was probably in their heads a bit, and now he's not, largely because of that stupid mistake.

As for him being average, I'd say he's probably above average. Name 12 goalies who would tear s*** up behind our defense.

[Hack & Whack Rule! 160]

Howard's never been very good at handling the puck, so a play like this shouldn't be entirely too surprising, like the guy or not. It's a weakness of his game, and all goalies have weaknesses. It was a terrible play and utterly atrocious timing for such a play, but if you liked the guy before and this is the only reason you're bent out of shape now, you either haven't been paying too close of attention or you'll get over it. I suspect the latter.

As said, he's never been known to be too hot at handling the puck, but he does many other things well a lot of the time. He's not perfect as we've seen through this regular season, but he was great in game 1, had some great moments in this game, and in the end, we absolutely didn't lose this game because of that play. I wouldn't even call it momentum turning. What was momentum turning, if you can even call it that this early, is when we kept taking stupid penalties and getting rattled by Boston's physical game. That is what lost this game for us.

If we can stay composed and stay out of the box and use our speed against Boston to draw penalties, we can beat them. If we lose our cool and give Boston too many power play opportunities, we're toast, and bad or great, Howard's play won't end up being the factor that changes the outcome of the series. Don't get me wrong, he needs to be on his A-Game no doubt to keep us in it, but it won't be enough to overcome Boston if the rest of the guys lose their cool and play into Boston's game.

No, he hasn't been very good at handling the puck. But that play was very surprising. He should know that he's no that fantastic, and should have picked a better spot to put it. Hell, he could have pushed it into the corner for the d-man to pick up. You're right, though, I'll likely get over it.

I think it was a turning point. A play like that can bring down the spirits of the entire team. It was after that, the second goal I believe, where he looked like he was shaken and was too far out from the net, Bruins loser got behind him, and scored.

Mostly, I've liked him. Despite his sketchiness and lack of puck handling abilities, I've thought he was good. In the playoffs, though, I get dickheaded about performances. I just think it's a ridiculous time to bring anything other than your A+ game.

[GrindL1n3 2]

Now I want to be Pekka Rinne's conscience "...Go to the Red Wings..." 2016 'if you build it he will come'.. lol or Craig Anderson

[Salviaman 104]

Howard just had a very bad game. If he has another poor showing in game 3 does Babs start Gus for game 4?

[Guest DeGraa55]

Howard just had a very bad game. If he has another poor showing in game 3 does Babs start Gus for game 4?

No

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

If Howard keeps it up, I foresee his next career being in broadcasting.

[13dangledangle 957]

That initial fopaux of Jimmy's was ridiculous and a game changer. However the boys never showed up at all. They looked confused and out of sorts it didn't matter if they were defending or breaking out it just looked sloppy. No room for bad games on either side, but at least they did it on the sane day.

Jimmy & The Wings will show up on Tuesday! LGW

[VM1138 1,921]

Howard wasn't terrible. The pass was awful, but as far as making good saves, he did pretty good. I'd say he was at fault for two of the goals. We have to score more than once a game.

Makes me excited for Mrazek, though. His puck handling can create offense.

[Holmstrom96 347]

We need to score more, but we also need Jimmy to hold them to 2 goals.

He stood on his head for Game 1, and had he not been perfect, we would have lost.

[lwing 68]

So it's too late to treat an old dog new tricks? There is no way Howard could actually try to improve his puck handling skills? After all he is a highly skilled athlete. Or are you saying his genetic makeup makes it impossible to learn how to handle the puck well enough to make a bantam league moronic mistake in a major NHL playoff game? Obviously I am being sarcastic. In 2001 Datsyuk was easy to push around and made too many moves. Were those his weaknesses he had to accept for the rest of his career? Every single year he has modified and improved his training and skills. He is constantly evolving. Howard isn't close to the level of Datsyuk, but he can take a cue and do real work to improve his weaknesses.

Howard's never been very good at handling the puck, so a play like this shouldn't be entirely too surprising, like the guy or not. It's a weakness of his game, and all goalies have weaknesses. It was a terrible play and utterly atrocious timing for such a play, but if you liked the guy before and this is the only reason you're bent out of shape now, you either haven't been paying too close of attention or you'll get over it. I suspect the latter.

As said, he's never been known to be too hot at handling the puck, but he does many other things well a lot of the time. He's not perfect as we've seen through this regular season, but he was great in game 1, had some great moments in this game, and in the end, we absolutely didn't lose this game because of that play. I wouldn't even call it momentum turning. What was momentum turning, if you can even call it that this early, is when we kept taking stupid penalties and getting rattled by Boston's physical game. That is what lost this game for us.

If we can stay composed and stay out of the box and use our speed against Boston to draw penalties, we can beat them. If we lose our cool and give Boston too many power play opportunities, we're toast, and bad or great, Howard's play won't end up being the factor that changes the outcome of the series. Don't get me wrong, he needs to be on his A-Game no doubt to keep us in it, but it won't be enough to overcome Boston if the rest of the guys lose their cool and play into Boston's game.

[roboturner 562]

I gotta say, I felt quite vindicated after seeing the responses here & in the GDT to that utterly ridiculous "pass", if it can even be called that, by Howie. I just hope that everybody can now see what I've been talking about in terms of his lack of puck-handling skills coming back to bite us.

We almost surely would have lost that game regardless, as Boston thoroughly out-played us. But, when you are an underdog against the Presidents Trophy winners and you're trying to weather the storm early in a game, you absolutely can not have you're goalie making bonehead plays and spotting them their first goal of the series. That goal, and to a lesser extent the second goal, completely changed everything. Demoralizing. Any intimidation that we had from game 1 vanished in an instant. Just can't happen.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

One goal off a bad pass didn't cost the game. The fact that Glendening scored the only goal cost the game.

[gcom007 1,465]

So it's too late to treat an old dog new tricks? There is no way Howard could actually try to improve his puck handling skills? After all he is a highly skilled athlete. Or are you saying his genetic makeup makes it impossible to learn how to handle the puck well enough to make a bantam league moronic mistake in a major NHL playoff game? Obviously I am being sarcastic. In 2001 Datsyuk was easy to push around and made too many moves. Were those his weaknesses he had to accept for the rest of his career? Every single year he has modified and improved his training and skills. He is constantly evolving. Howard isn't close to the level of Datsyuk, but he can take a cue and do real work to improve his weaknesses.

I never said that I don't think he should improve that area of his game. I said it shouldn't be surprising because thus far, he's not been a good puck handler. A bonehead play like this was just waiting to happen given his ability or lack thereof. Frankly, it's why his little Mrazak comment from game 1 was a little alarming to me, because the playoffs is not the time to shake things up, especially in a part of your game that has been notoriously weak.

But I'd love it if Howard worked as hard in he the summer on his weaknesses like Dats and the other greats do. That's why they get paid. Jimmy gets paid like them to. I was saying he should do this years ago if you were to go back and look at some old posts. He's got a solid skill set but he has clear areas that need improvement, and improving in those areas could really help him reach those highs more consistently and authoritatively.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

One goal off a bad pass didn't cost the game. The fact that Glendening scored the only goal cost the game.

While I agree we needed to score more goals, and definitely could've used the pp not being terrible, I don't think you can say one way or the other whether that cost us the game.

Things could've been completely different had that play not happened. Momentum and playing from behind are big things.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Wheelchairsuperhero

[DickieDunn 2,571]

One goal off a bad pass didn't cost the game. The fact that Glendening scored the only goal cost the game.While I agree we needed to score more goals, and definitely could've used the pp not being terrible, I don't think you can say one way or the other whether that cost us the game.

Things could've been completely different had that play not happened. Momentum and playing from behind are big things.

If you let a play like that kill you you don't deserve to win

[roboturner 562]

If you let a play like that kill you you don't deserve to win

That'd be fine if this was the Wings of '02 or '08/'09. This current Wings team can't overcome those kinds of stupid mistakes in a series where they are clearly over matched talent-wise. They need everybody playing their best hockey right now, including especially the goaltender.

Howard of Game 1 gives us an excellent chance to win this series.

Howard of Game 2 means we're not gonna win another game till October.

[cnot19 191]

I do not want Howard stick handling anytime soon, he simply isn't good enough at it. What I rally would like to see him work on is knocking down dump ins behind the net and settling dump ins behind the net for the d men. He doesn't have to make any passes or anything like that simply leave it in the trapezoid after stopping the dump in, makes it much easier on defenseman specially against hard forechecking teams, trust me.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

That'd be fine if this was the Wings of '02 or '08/'09. This current Wings team can't overcome those kinds of stupid mistakes in a series where they are clearly over matched talent-wise. They need everybody playing their best hockey right now, including especially the goaltender.

Howard of Game 1 gives us an excellent chance to win this series.

Howard of Game 2 means we're not gonna win another game till October.

At work so I haven't been able to post for a bit, but this is about what I would've said. These are the Bruins, can't give them momentum. That goal let them dictate the pace. Like I said though I'm not saying it's the reason we lost, I'm just saying you can't definitively say one way or the other if it cost us the game. Who knows how we would've played had we scored first, or kept the board at 0's like game one. I do know our PP has to start doing something though. Edited April 21, 2014 by Wheelchairsuperhero

[Mitchmac33 103]

I gotta say, I felt quite vindicated after seeing the responses here & in the GDT to that utterly ridiculous "pass", if it can even be called that, by Howie. I just hope that everybody can now see what I've been talking about in terms of his lack of puck-handling skills coming back to bite us.

We almost surely would have lost that game regardless, as Boston thoroughly out-played us. But, when you are an underdog against the Presidents Trophy winners and you're trying to weather the storm early in a game, you absolutely can not have you're goalie making bonehead plays and spotting them their first goal of the series. That goal, and to a lesser extent the second goal, completely changed everything. Demoralizing. Any intimidation that we had from game 1 vanished in an instant. Just can't happen.

When you're an underdog you also can't get into a penalty war and go 2/4 on the kill and 0/4 on the PP. Blame can't fall only on Jimmy. I'm not trying to say he had a strong game, because he didn't, but nor did anyone else really (besides Datsyuk).

[roboturner 562]

When you're an underdog you also can't get into a penalty war and go 2/4 on the kill and 0/4 on the PP. Blame can't fall only on Jimmy. I'm not trying to say he had a strong game, because he didn't, but nor did anyone else really (besides Datsyuk).

I wasn't blaming it only on Jimmy, like I said, we probably would have lost regardless (that's on the whole team), and that everybody has to be playing their best right now. But seeing as how the goalie, regardless of who it is, is the last line of defense, they can't be making the same stupid mistakes as everybody else. Especially if they are going to leave the net wide open and then make a boneheaded 'pass' that not even a magician like dats would have been able to receive. If a defenceman had made that atrocious pass, at least someone would have been in the net to make a play on it.

[IndianaRedWing 15]

That'd be fine if this was the Wings of '02 or '08/'09. This current Wings team can't overcome those kinds of stupid mistakes in a series where they are clearly over matched talent-wise. They need everybody playing their best hockey right now, including especially the goaltender.

Howard of Game 1 gives us an excellent chance to win this series.

Howard of Game 2 means we're not gonna win another game till October.

Then prepare to lose.

When was the last time a team won the cup by having their goalie steal 16 games? If Hasek, Brodeur, and Roy didn't steal every game (or even every win), you can be reasonable sure that Howard won't either.

The problem here is that someone could just as easily rewrite that post by saying "This isn't the Wings of '02 . . . they don't have a Dominic Hasek in his prime. They can't afford to be scoring one goal per game, frittering away their power plays. The decision to accept lack of talent among 18 skaters but not the 19th is just baffling to me. It's completely and utterly arbitrary.

Focusing on Howard just strikes me as lazy. It's easier to point fingers at one guy than at 18.

Yes, having your goalie give up an early goal can have some vague effect on morale which can alter the course of the game.

You know what else can have a vague effect on morale which can alter the course of the game? Not waiting until 30 minutes in to get on the board. Jumping on the opponent and making them second-guess themselves has that effect, too.

This is funny - I don't think I've ever been fully on the Howard bandwagon. I'm not his biggest cheerleader. It's just that I don't agree with singling him out.

Edited April 22, 2014 by IndianaRedWing

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

Then prepare to lose.

When was the last time a team won the cup by having their goalie steal 16 games? If Hasek, Brodeur, and Roy didn't steal every game (or even every win), you can be reasonable sure that Howard won't either.

The problem here is that someone could just as easily rewrite that post by saying "This isn't the Wings of '02 . . . they don't have a Dominic Hasek in his prime. They can't afford to be scoring one goal per game, frittering away their power plays. The decision to accept lack of talent among 18 skaters but not the 19th is just baffling to me. It's completely and utterly arbitrary.

Focusing on Howard just strikes me as lazy. It's easier to point fingers at one guy than at 18.

Yes, having your goalie give up an early goal can have some vague effect on morale which can alter the course of the game.

You know what else can have a vague effect on morale which can alter the course of the game? Not waiting until 30 minutes in to get on the board. Jumping on the opponent and making them second-guess themselves has that effect, too.

This is funny - I don't think I've ever been fully on the Howard bandwagon. I'm not his biggest cheerleader. It's just that I don't agree with singling him out.

Not trying to sound snarky here but, have you been reading the posts? He isn't being singled out, at least that's not how I've been looking at it. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees the team played like crap. But giving Howard NONE of the blame is ridiculous.

Edit: and I also don't think anyone expects us to win 16 consecutive, but I think hoping that we don't give games away (like I think we did in game 2) isn't unreasonable.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Wheelchairsuperhero

[IndianaRedWing 15]

I only scanned the last several posts. I'm sure I'm not completely up to speed on everything that's been written on LGW.

It just seemed like "here we go again. If the wings are going to win, Howard needs to stand on his head. Howard proceeds not to stand on his head and the Wings lose. Ergo, Howard is a bum."

I hear it from other people, I see it on other sites, and I thought I was seeing it again here.

FWIW, I think my game 3-4 key is the power play. I expect Detroit to play with a jump back at the Joe, and think playing at home will help with the zebras. What they do with those chances will probably have a lot to do with how the series stands going back to Boston.

Unless Howie follows up game 2 by giving up a six-spot in game 3. If that happens, I'll just disappear in shame until next playoff season, lol

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

I only scanned the last several posts. I'm sure I'm not completely up to speed on everything that's been written on LGW.

It just seemed like "here we go again. If the wings are going to win, Howard needs to stand on his head. Howard proceeds not to stand on his head and the Wings lose. Ergo, Howard is a bum."

I hear it from other people, I see it on other sites, and I thought I was seeing it again here.

FWIW, I think my game 3-4 key is the power play. I expect Detroit to play with a jump back at the Joe, and think playing at home will help with the zebras. What they do with those chances will probably have a lot to do with how the series stands going back to Boston.

Unless Howie follows up game 2 by giving up a six-spot in game 3. If that happens, I'll just disappear in shame until next playoff season, lol

I like Jimmy. He's had a rough year but I think he's a good goalie. He does play the puck like crap though. I agree on the power play. Special teams are key here.