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Howard = Average

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How is this thread still in existence? The same people who bow at the alter of Osgood are calling Jimmy average. Talk about a catch-22.

Had we jimmy Howard on those 90s wings teams, I feel like Scotty would have had to start putting rings on his toes.

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How is this thread still in existence? The same people who bow at the alter of Osgood are calling Jimmy average. Talk about a catch-22.

Had we jimmy Howard on those 90s wings teams, I feel like Scotty would have had to start putting rings on his toes.

Ozzie>Howard, Ozzie>Manny(by a long shot)

I think Mraz is going to prove he is better then all of them

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Ozzie>Howard, Ozzie>Manny(by a long shot)

I think Mraz is going to prove he is better then all of them

Seriously? Ozzie is better than howie? this was a joke right? very few times in Osgoods career did he put up numbers as good as howie has in his first three years, and you can't argue that he had a MUCH better team in front of him, the fact that you would even consider ozzie to be better than howie is laughable. I loved ozzie, but c'mon he was shaky at best most nights, how many times did he need to be bailed out?

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Seriously? Ozzie is better than howie? this was a joke right? very few times in Osgoods career did he put up numbers as good as howie has in his first three years, and you can't argue that he had a MUCH better team in front of him, the fact that you would even consider ozzie to be better than howie is laughable. I loved ozzie, but c'mon he was shaky at best most nights, how many times did he need to be bailed out?

What are you talking about. Osgood's career average is 2.49, Howard's is 2.43 but Osgood played in an era when goalie equipment wasn't so big and there were almost 2 goals a game more scored in games then there are now. Osgood's career playofff average is 2.09 and Howard's is 2.63. Osgood also played for weaker teams like NYI and St. Louis and Howard hasn't. Osgood helped us win 2 Cups and helped us to another SCF. There are only 2 goalies with more wins than Osgood. And he came up big in the playoffs his playoff stats are as good or better than Brodeur, Roy and Hasek's all HoFs or future HoFers who played when Osgood did.

Howard's pretty good but he hasn't accomplished nearly as much as Osgood

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Osgood was good in the playoffs you are right there, but did ozzie ever have a .920 or .924 save percentage in a full season? did he ever finish a season with 2.13gaa after coming back from an injury and not playing as well, because howie did all of those in the past three years, and he was on pace to finish last season well under 2 goals against before being injured. Teams like NYI then were pretty much on par with the mid level teams of todays nhl

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I know I shouldn't be surprised that yet another thread was turned into one about Osgood, but the topic is about Howard being average.

Let's stick to that.

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Osgood was good in the playoffs you are right there, but did ozzie ever have a .920 or .924 save percentage in a full season? did he ever finish a season with 2.13gaa after coming back from an injury and not playing as well, because howie did all of those in the past three years, and he was on pace to finish last season well under 2 goals against before being injured. Teams like NYI then were pretty much on par with the mid level teams of todays nhl

Ozzie mostly played in an era when goalie equipment was heavier, less flexible and most of all a lot smaller and there was much more scoring in the NHL because of it.

Howard never played on a mid level team

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Ozzie mostly played in an era when goalie equipment was heavier, less flexible and most of all a lot smaller and there was much more scoring in the NHL because of it.

Howard never played on a mid level team

If you didn't see it, we were kindly asked to revert back to discussing Howard, not Osgood. So let's chalk this up to, you have your opinion and I have mine.

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If you didn't see it, we were kindly asked to revert back to discussing Howard, not Osgood. So let's chalk this up to, you have your opinion and I have mine.

I think Howard is better than average

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Take the red tinted glasses off. No defenseman in history did what Bobby Orr did. Hes easily #1. #2 aint bad for Lidstrom. And you consider Damian Brunner and Tootoo as "big splashes" hmmm. Theyve been good signings but far from big splashes. So winning a Cup has nothing to do with how good a squad is its all about getting hot. Right. Guess that 02 Wings team just got hot.

The Kings were the better team today and save for the 1st period it wasn't even close. They just ran into a hot goalie. Something which we Wings fans know something about. Its 6-2 atleast without Howard.

Of course the Kings were the better team today....They have been resting since Thursday, while the Wings played one of the fastest teams in the league less than 24 hours before taking on the Kings.

If the situation had been reversed the Wings probably would have blown out the Kings, especially with Quick playing like he did.

So far this season

Howard is 6-4-1 with a GAA of 2.78 and a SV% of .906 with 0 shutouts

Quick is 3-4-2 with a GAA of 2.70 a SV% of .891 with 0 shutouts.

Howard has also faced 90 more shots than Quick. Is Quick average too now?

Edited by FlashyG

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If you didn't see it, we were kindly asked to revert back to discussing Howard, not Osgood. So let's chalk this up to, you have your opinion and I have mine.

I was using an elite goalie for comparison

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Take the red tinted glasses off. No defenseman in history did what Bobby Orr did. Hes easily #1. #2 aint bad for Lidstrom. And you consider Damian Brunner and Tootoo as "big splashes" hmmm. Theyve been good signings but far from big splashes. So winning a Cup has nothing to do with how good a squad is its all about getting hot. Right. Guess that 02 Wings team just got hot.

The Kings were the better team today and save for the 1st period it wasn't even close. They just ran into a hot goalie. Something which we Wings fans know something about. Its 6-2 atleast without Howard.

Your right, but I'll still take Lidstrom #1... And yeah, Brunner is leading the team in goals and is 10th in the league in goals. So yeah, adding that offense in the top 6 is a big splash. Besides Parise or Suter, he is the best Free agent we could have added. And one of the biggest deficiencies on last years team was a lack of a physical, fast, 4th line player. Tootoo satisfies this need. So we are weaker on the back end, no doubt, but stronger at the forward position. And Helm hasn't even played.

The NHL today is more about teams getting hot and being healthy at the right time. LA was a good team last year and played their best hockey when it mattered. But if they were so great, why did they barely sneak into the playoffs? You cannot compare this to the 02 wings. It is apples and oranges. That team had an accumulation of talent never seen before on a team. They clinched a playoff berth more than a month before any other team. They didn't have to sneak in. That was possible because there was no salary cap.

In todays game, with the salary cap, the top 10 teams are so close in talent and skill that games and series can go either way. Its parity.

And I agree, the Kings outplayed the wings today. The wings were dead tired and the Kings were on two days rest. But the Wings look better than the Kings so far this year, and probably will into the playoffs.

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I know I shouldn't be surprised that yet another thread was turned into one about Osgood, but the topic is about Howard being average.

Let's stick to that.

Osgood is Jimmy's predecessor. He is what most most people compare Jimmy to. It is fair to point out that if Jimmy is being called average around here, it is comical that those same people think Osgood was among the best goalies of all time. (Using the 401 wins argument.)

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What does "elite" mean anyways? Are the top 5 goalies in the league elite? Top 10? Who is going to argue that Howard isn't one of the top 10 goalies in the league? Come on, bring it on...........

Edited by SFwingsfan

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What does "elite" mean anyways? Are the top 5 goalies in the league elite? Top 10? Who is going to argue that Howard isn't one of the top 10 goalies in the league? Come on, bring it on...........

Bingo! At worst Howie is top 10. Heck one could make a good argument that G is our deepest and strongest position right now. Great starter, good backup in Gus (even though he is currently hurt) and 2 good young guys in the minors on the way.

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Take the red tinted glasses off. No defenseman in history did what Bobby Orr did.

Cool. Lidstrom couldn't score like Orr. Orr couldn't play D like Lidstrom. I'll take that anyday. Orr as a myth has become bigger than Orr as a player.

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Cool. Lidstrom couldn't score like Orr. Orr couldn't play D like Lidstrom. I'll take that anyday. Orr as a myth has become bigger than Orr as a player.

Lidstrom wouldn't block shots like Orr clear the front of the net like Orr, battle in the corners like Orr, hit like Orr or fight like Orr.

Orr was +124 in 70-71, that's gotta be a record.

Or was not only the best defenseman ever but the best hockey player ever.

Edited by Johnz96
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If it wasn't for Howard performance last night, we had lost.

....and there are a lot of nights we can say the same thing. Howie > average. Can we change the topic title to that at least?

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Howard ad one good game. And he still almost lost it. No way the Wings get a clutch cup run out of Howard.

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What does "elite" mean anyways? Are the top 5 goalies in the league elite? Top 10? Who is going to argue that Howard isn't one of the top 10 goalies in the league? Come on, bring it on...........

Goalies in my opinion that are without a doubt better than Howard:

Jonnathon Quick

Tuukka Rask

Carey Price

Marc Andre Fleury

Tomas Vokoun

Jaroslav Halak

Pekka Rinne

Henrik Lundqvist

Roberto Luongo

Ryan Miller

Martin Brodeur

Cam Ward

That's 12 goalies, putting Howard 13th at best which is by definition, average. Middle of the pack. Again this is my opinion but that's where I'm coming from.

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