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Howard = Average


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#181 blgillett

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

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#182 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:42 PM


Howard ad one good game. And he still almost lost it. No way the Wings get a clutch cup run out of Howard.


2 goals on 47 shots...most goalies would have let in at least 5 of those shots. Go watch the game tape. The whole Wings team escaped with the squeaker win. They had their svoring chanced too but not as many close calls for almost goals. Howard outperformed the reigning Conn Smythe champ.

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#183 evilzyme

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:46 PM

2 goals on 47 shots...most goalies would have let in at least 5 of those shots. Go watch the game tape. The whole Wings team escaped with the squeaker win. They had their svoring chanced too but not as many close calls for almost goals. Howard outperformed the reigning Conn Smythe champ.


he didn't even watch the game yesterday. he was asking about it in the gdt. dude has absolutely no idea what the hell he is talking about, which is normally the case anytime he opens his mouth on here.

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#184 The Axe

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:59 PM

he didn't even watch the game yesterday. he was asking about it in the gdt. dude has absolutely no idea what the hell he is talking about, which is normally the case anytime he opens his mouth on here.


I was at Pebble watching the golf. Im allowed to do that and still like the Red Wings. You know that, right? Ive caught half the games this year, and Ive seen enough of Howard to know that he is not elite. Hes good, but considering our team is not elite anymore, good doesnt cut it.

#185 Wingsfan72

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:46 PM

Goalies in my opinion that are without a doubt better than Howard:

 

Jonnathon Quick

Tuukka Rask

Carey Price

Marc Andre Fleury

Tomas Vokoun

Jaroslav Halak

Pekka Rinne

Henrik Lundqvist

Roberto Luongo

Ryan Miller

Martin Brodeur

Cam Ward

 

That's 12 goalies, putting Howard 13th at best which is by definition, average.  Middle of the pack.  Again this is my opinion but that's where I'm coming from. 

:bad:  :bad:  :bad:

 

Also, not so much with Vokoun.

 

Howard (very much like Ozzie) is an extremely underrated goaltender.  He is incredibly talented and IMO one of the more consistent players on our team.  Just like the game against LA, he can bail the team out and carry them to a win if he has to.  I'm genuinely curious what would make people happy enough to give the guy a little credit.  He does a lot of the same things your "elite" goalies do; plays tons of games, makes great saves, can be counted on...what more does he need, a superstar cap hit?  If he needs to make 7mil a year to be considered an "Elite" goalie, then I am happy with our "average" one.


Edited by Wingsfan72, 11 February 2013 - 03:59 PM.



 
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#186 irishock

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:53 PM

:hysterical: Cam Ward


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#187 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:54 PM

Some of these goalies I don't see enough to comment for sure, but definitely not MAF.  He has always struggled with consistency.  

 

Yes he makes highlight reel saves but they're often followed by backbreaking soft goals. 

 

Given his playoff meltdowns I wouldn't put Luongo over Jimmy either. 



#188 newfy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:24 PM

Some of these goalies I don't see enough to comment for sure, but definitely not MAF.  He has always struggled with consistency.  

 

Yes he makes highlight reel saves but they're often followed by backbreaking soft goals. 

 

Given his playoff meltdowns I wouldn't put Luongo over Jimmy either. 

 

Some of these goalies I don't see enough to comment for sure, but definitely not MAF.  He has always struggled with consistency.  

 

Yes he makes highlight reel saves but they're often followed by backbreaking soft goals. 

 

Given his playoff meltdowns I wouldn't put Luongo over Jimmy either. 

Thats bold. Luongo has a gold medal and made it to game 7 of the cup finals, Jimmy hasnt really had all that much playoff success. I like Jimmy a lot and thnik hes top 10 but Luongo is a consistent Vezina threat and is still playing at a high level


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#189 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:43 PM

Thats bold. Luongo has a gold medal and made it to game 7 of the cup finals, Jimmy hasnt really had all that much playoff success. I like Jimmy a lot and thnik hes top 10 but Luongo is a consistent Vezina threat and is still playing at a high level

Yeah, honestly I may be giving too much weight to his playoff meltdowns.  He's obviously a very good goalie but just seems mentally fragile or something. 

 

How they've handled the goalie situation in Vancouver certainly hasn't helped things. Luongo got yanked last playoffs, and he was absolutely not the problem.  

 

It's one thing to do that in a game if your team is getting shelled, but if a guy is truly your number one goalie, you don't sit him on the bench to "change things up."  



#190 Johnz96

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

Goalies in my opinion that are without a doubt better than Howard:

 

Jonnathon Quick

Tuukka Rask

Carey Price

Marc Andre Fleury

Tomas Vokoun

Jaroslav Halak

Pekka Rinne

Henrik Lundqvist

Roberto Luongo

Ryan Miller

Martin Brodeur

Cam Ward

 

That's 12 goalies, putting Howard 13th at best which is by definition, average.  Middle of the pack.  Again this is my opinion but that's where I'm coming from. 

Looking at that list Howard may very well be elite.
Goalies are so hard to assess, the teams in front of them affect their stats so much. When a team is among thje best in goals allowed it is hard to attribute how much of that is due to the goalie and how much of it is due to the team in front of them and not only how good (the team in front of the goalie) they are but also how they play the game. Even the worst of them make great saves
The only one that I would say is for sure better than Howard is Lundquist. It appears that Brodeur still is but at his age, how long can that last? I think it won't be long until Mrazek proves that he is as good at least. He's got a quite confidence, nothing seems to phase him and a definite exuberance and love for playing the game. 



Yeah, honestly I may be giving too much weight to his playoff meltdowns.  He's obviously a very good goalie but just seems mentally fragile or something. 

 

How they've handled the goalie situation in Vancouver certainly hasn't helped things. Luongo got yanked last playoffs, and he was absolutely not the problem.  

 

It's one thing to do that in a game if your team is getting shelled, but if a guy is truly your number one goalie, you don't sit him on the bench to "change things up."  

I don't think they were sure who their number one was/is. I know they were/are hoping it's Schneider to save some money against the cap and power up at another position, which ideally would be the best situation for them.


Edited by Johnz96, 11 February 2013 - 07:16 PM.


#191 Barrie

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:02 PM

Goalies in my opinion that are without a doubt better than Howard:

 

Jonnathon Quick

Tuukka Rask

Carey Price

Marc Andre Fleury

Tomas Vokoun

Jaroslav Halak

Pekka Rinne

Henrik Lundqvist

Roberto Luongo

Ryan Miller

Martin Brodeur

Cam Ward

 

That's 12 goalies, putting Howard 13th at best which is by definition, average.  Middle of the pack.  Again this is my opinion but that's where I'm coming from. 

 

Actually, looking at that list, the goaltending in the League now isn't very impressive. Howard no doubt is one of the better goalies in the league.


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#192 Richdg

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:27 PM

In 2 of the past 3 seasons, Howard is top 5 in GAA and he is average...... LOL



#193 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:35 PM

Actually, looking at that list, the goaltending in the League now isn't very impressive. Howard no doubt is one of the better goalies in the league.

When you think about how many good goalies were in the league at once in the 90's.....

 

Hasek, Roy, Barasso, Vernon, Richter, Brodeur, Joseph, Belfour, Vanbiesbrouck, Ranford, Fuhr, Potvin,  etc.  

 

Now we still have Brodeur along with Quick and Lundqvist, but after that, who on the lists in this thread are actually better than Howard seeing as Howard is every bit as good as Price?  Howard may not be elite according to the history of the game, but in the league right now, he's between 5 and 7.  


This offseason will determine whether Ken Holland should still be employed with the Wings organization.

 

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#194 Johnz96

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

In 2 of the past 3 seasons, Howard is top 5 in GAA and he is average...... LOL

But he also had the best defenseman in the league and 2 of the best defensive forwards in the league on his team



#195 Richdg

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:43 PM

But he also had the best defenseman in the league and 2 of the best defensive forwards in the league on his team

True, but broduer also has a great D in front of him most years. The one thing that draws attention from most fans ref goalies is flash. That is something Howard doesn't have. On the plus side, he does have a mean streak. Not Billy Smith mean (my all time fav tender) but he doesn't take s*** either.



#196 irishock

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:13 AM

Orr benefited a whole lot from playing during the worst era in hockey: the expansion era. If you put Orr and Lidstrom in the same era, with Lidstrom born in Canada, Lidstrom would be viewed as the best defensemen ever


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#197 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:31 AM

Funny, he must have read the title of this thread before the LA game. 


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#198 number9

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:44 AM

Howard is a different style of goalie than most.

 

A lot of goalies have crazy reflexes or crazy aggressiveness, and will post shut outs or incredible games where they stand on their head. Howie grits his teeth and does work. He might not get shut outs or glamorous wins, but he does consistently find ways to win and is very level-headed. He doesn't often post amazing games, but he also doesn't often post crap games. Reliable and efficient.

 

Lids was amazing to say the least, but many people give him way too much credit for Howards play. One man, even Lids, only does so much. 


Edited by number9, 12 February 2013 - 12:46 AM.


#199 heyfolks

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:45 PM

The NHL has 30 teams.  If you cannot name 14 goalies that are better than Howard, the statement is incorrect.

 

IMO - The guy is far above average.  A workhorse who has taken to the job as the team has gone through a transition.  He had a 40 year-old Nick, a bad back rafalski, home sick Stuart and a cap era balance of roster.  I believe Howard is easily in the top 10 and working his way to the top 5.  



#200 Euro_Twins

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:44 PM

The NHL has 30 teams.  If you cannot name 14 goalies that are better than Howard, the statement is incorrect.

 

IMO - The guy is far above average.  A workhorse who has taken to the job as the team has gone through a transition.  He had a 40 year-old Nick, a bad back rafalski, home sick Stuart and a cap era balance of roster.  I believe Howard is easily in the top 10 and working his way to the top 5.  

 

ya, not to mention he takes the blame for each loss and never makes excuses. He never says, "well if Quincey hadn't gotten out of position I could have made a save" he says "I should have made the save, I lost sight of the puck and they made me pay for it" 

 

He is a workhorse, a stand up guy, and definitely top 10 in the league


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