Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 21 votes

Howard = Average


  • Please log in to reply
781 replies to this topic

#201 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

Nobody is questioning Howard's personality. I love the fact that he's a gamer and never creates a problem. I just dont think he's a great goalie. I think he's good, but that we can do better.

#202 cupforwings

cupforwings

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,097 posts

Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

IMO, there is an intersting trend with the "great goalies" in the NHL.  We look at Bryz in Phoenix when he was a vezina candidate, Mike Smith in Phoenix, Ryan Miller in Buffalo, even Craig Anderson when he was in Colorado and these goalies are on teams who get out shot most games because their team just isn't that good.  They are constantly getting peppered with shot and have to make 40 saves a game.  They are good goalies, but their stats get inflated because of the number of shots they see.  Its noticeable that goalies who get a lot of shots per might, and are constantly getting action, are better throughout the game.

 

Bryz left Phoenix to a better team getting less shots a night, he struggled.  Brian Elliot joined the best defensive team in the league and became an all star.  Craig Anderson left Colorado and sucked it up his first year in Ottawa.  

 

IMO, it shows that it is harder to make saves when you have to sit at your end for most of the period with no action.  Chris Osgood and Jimmy Howard have done this quite well.  They have the mental toughness to be prepared with for the occasional chance.  Luongo struggled big time with this in Vancouver.  He is a great talent but he was mentally weak.

 

That is why Jimmy is great.  He learned mental toughness from Chris Osgood, and Jimmy is more talented than Osgood.  Its more than just raw skill.  Jimmy has great talent, great size, elite competitiveness, and an elite mentality.


Edited by cupforwings, 12 February 2013 - 02:12 PM.


#203 beachwing

beachwing

    Reader

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,253 posts
  • Location:Destin

Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

He also has to be his own enforcer as the wings never stAnd up for for him.

Ive never played goal and cant pretend to understand the mental side of it but knowing you may get run every rush cant help your game and he still gives us a chance every night . Top 10 for sure!

#204 Heaton

Heaton

    Oh noez

  • HoF Booster Mod
  • 9,311 posts
  • Location:Rochester Hills, MI

Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

I've always been of the opinion that you do not pay any goalie more than 5m per season.  I don't care if it's Henrik Lundqvist or Patrick Rinne, no goaltender is worth that in a capped league.  The biggest reason for this is the uncertainty of the position, when your big money goalie has a bad night they can cost you a game, when your big money forward or defensemen has a bad night it may result in a minus or zero points, but a loss isn't always the worst case scenario.  

 

In the case of Jimmy Howard, I think he's a really good goalie, I think he's a homegrown talent and we can win with him.  But the problem is if he asks for more than 4m/season the best thing to do would be to let him walk.  There's too many decent goalies available to wrap that much cap space into that position.  


Moral victories are for losers.

#205 Barrie

Barrie

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,938 posts

Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

When you think about how many good goalies were in the league at once in the 90's.....

 

Hasek, Roy, Barasso, Vernon, Richter, Brodeur, Joseph, Belfour, Vanbiesbrouck, Ranford, Fuhr, Potvin,  etc.  

 

Now we still have Brodeur along with Quick and Lundqvist, but after that, who on the lists in this thread are actually better than Howard seeing as Howard is every bit as good as Price?  Howard may not be elite according to the history of the game, but in the league right now, he's between 5 and 7.  

 

I agree, there isn't to many big game goalies now. Good ones, but not ones you can call big game or elite. Maybe it has to do with the Cap. With the talent spread around it probably effects the quality of goaltending.



He also has to be his own enforcer as the wings never stAnd up for for him.

Ive never played goal and cant pretend to understand the mental side of it but knowing you may get run every rush cant help your game and he still gives us a chance every night . Top 10 for sure!

 

This year's team can stand up for him.


Lets Go:
Red Wings
Tigers
Roughriders
Lions
Spartans
Pistons

#206 Euro_Twins

Euro_Twins

    Healthy Scratch

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,466 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:45 PM

I've always been of the opinion that you do not pay any goalie more than 5m per season.  I don't care if it's Henrik Lundqvist or Patrick Rinne, no goaltender is worth that in a capped league.  The biggest reason for this is the uncertainty of the position, when your big money goalie has a bad night they can cost you a game, when your big money forward or defensemen has a bad night it may result in a minus or zero points, but a loss isn't always the worst case scenario.  

 

In the case of Jimmy Howard, I think he's a really good goalie, I think he's a homegrown talent and we can win with him.  But the problem is if he asks for more than 4m/season the best thing to do would be to let him walk.  There's too many decent goalies available to wrap that much cap space into that position.  

 

Pekka Rinne* 

 

I beg to differ, there may be decent goalies out there like Monster you can grab for around 2mil/season. The problem with that is now you let a great goalie walk, and you suddenly have to score an extra 2 goals a night to get the win, decent goalie = 3 gaa. Howie is a 2gaa typpe goalie, pay him 5mil if thats the proverbial hill he'll die on (thanks for that quote bettman :P)



#207 joesuffP

joesuffP

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,186 posts

Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:25 PM

detroit can win a cup with jimmy in net



#208 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

detroit can win a cup with jimmy in net


I dont think this is true

#209 shoobiedoobin

shoobiedoobin

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:59 PM

I dont think this is true

Antii Niemi is much, much worse than Jimmy Howard. It's debatable but I'd also take Jimmy over Cam Ward, MA Fleury and JS Giguere. Not 2003 Giguere (which is still overrated) but the 07 Giguere who just wore oversized equipment and played "hope it hit's me" butterfly style without ever extending his arms or legs. I've seen glaciers move faster than him.

 

The whole "can a goalie win a cup" thing is just storytelling sensationalism to me. No goalie wins one by themselves. If you're good enough to carry a team for a little awhile, you're good enough to win a championship if your team helps you out. There are plenty of goalies capable of winning championships if the team does their part. It really is a team game. I've watched a lot of hockey for a long many years and I've only seen two goalies truly carry piss poor teams to the finals-The Beezer in 96 and Hasek in 99. Neither won. Just like some teams have gone down because their goalie let in softies. It's not possible at all to win without a full team effort. And Jimmy isn't one of those guys who we groan about because he gives up softies, he's shown he can do his share. You gotta think-if the team in front of him does enough, would Jimmy piss it away? I have a hard time believing that even at my most pessimistic.


Edited by shoobiedoobin, 12 February 2013 - 07:01 PM.


#210 Number19

Number19

    I like our team

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 355 posts

Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:00 PM

detroit can win a cup with jimmy in net

If we had a stacked defense like '97 yeah.
 



#211 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:18 PM

If we had a stacked defense like '97 yeah.
 


Exactly. I dont think Jimmy is the problem. I dont think the team is or will be good enough.

#212 BuckeyeWingsfan80

BuckeyeWingsfan80

    The more the better

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,922 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:11 AM

Jimmy could stop a million shots, look like Dominik Sawchuk McCujo and some people would not give up their stubborn opinion that he's average. It's pretty obvious to everyone but them that it's just an emotional reaction to seeing one goal they don't think he should've given up, stuff like that. It's ridiculous. You could take a game where he stops 28 of 30, looks amazing, and if we lose 2-1 he's average and if we win 3-2 he's amazing. Same game, different opinion on our goalie based on goals against the other team. That's the difference between Howard and Quick. Nothin' but the team in front of them.

 

When you support a team you usually react emotionally and knee jerk opinions are formed. 

A lot of the same people said the same crap over and over again about Ozzy and now they likely love him.  It's just morons being keyboard heroes on the interwebz....


Don't take it from fans on LGW, take it from his peers. NHL players have spoken and they think Tootoo is the dirtiest player in the league.

Get a clue already.

#213 redwings15

redwings15

    Rookie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 107 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:06 PM

People who say Howard is not an elite goaltender must have never played a single shift of hockey in their lives. The way he cuts down the angles on breakaways and shootouts. The way he has progressed tremendously from two years ago. The way he slides from side to side on 2-on-1s. With our suspect defense and power play, Howard keeps us in the game every game.



#214 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:55 PM

People who say Howard is not an elite goaltender must have never played a single shift of hockey in their lives. The way he cuts down the angles on breakaways and shootouts. The way he has progressed tremendously from two years ago. The way he slides from side to side on 2-on-1s. With our suspect defense and power play, Howard keeps us in the game every game.


He single handedly lost us that game. 3 soft goals. Did not make saves when necessary. Howard is an average goalie who plays well once every 5 to 6 starts. Its that simple.

#215 BottleOfSmoke

BottleOfSmoke

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,150 posts
  • Location:It's so hot in the P

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:57 PM

He single handedly lost us that game.

 

In the game I was watching, he had plenty of help in losing this game.


LGWsig_zpsa75c5d1e.jpg

 


#216 evilmrt

evilmrt

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,582 posts
  • Location:Winter Freakin Wonderland

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:00 PM

He single handedly lost us that game. 3 soft goals. Did not make saves when necessary. Howard is an average goalie who plays well once every 5 to 6 starts. Its that simple.

 

He should have shot the puck at the net from the other end of the rink because nobody else on the team seemed to be able to. 



#217 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:00 PM

 
In the game I was watching, he had plenty of help in losing this game.


Wings didnt play well, but a good goalie wins that game for us.

#218 BottleOfSmoke

BottleOfSmoke

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,150 posts
  • Location:It's so hot in the P

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:04 PM

Wings didnt play well, but a good goalie wins that game for us.


So does a better D, or more digging in and creating offensive opportunities by our forwards. You can't cherry pick who needs to be better. Yes, Howie let in some soft goals. But there are a myriad of other ways this team could have won this particular game. Howie has bailed this team out at times, the shirts in front of him need to be able to do the same. There's enough blame to go around.

LGWsig_zpsa75c5d1e.jpg

 


#219 LeftWinger

LeftWinger

    42 years in Detroit! Time to spend the rest in paradise!

  • Silver Booster
  • 8,732 posts
  • Location:HART - MI

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:06 PM

While I believe Howard is way above average, I also believe M-Raz is and will be better.  In two years, I believe M-Raz will be starting and Howard may not even be around...nothing personal, just business.


Don't Be Jealous, But I Live Here...

www.thinkdunes.com

 

Nestrasil, yes...Cleary....No!

Dump Q and K Now!


#220 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:08 PM

So does a better D, or more digging in and creating offensive opportunities by our forwards. You can't cherry pick who needs to be better. Yes, Howie let in some soft goals. But there are a myriad of other ways this team could have won this particular game. Howie has bailed this team out at times, the shirts in front of him need to be able to do the same. There's enough blame to go around.


I will agree with you. Win and lose as a team. But we would win more with a better goalie.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users