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Howard = Average


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#241 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:09 PM

We need a change of scenery at Goalie. Im sorry, but we need an elite goalie to bail out our less than elite team. Howard isnt it. Thats plain and simple.


An in his prime Brodeur would have a hard time with all the horrific turnovers this D produces. What we need is another top D man and less injuries

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#242 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:09 PM

We need a change of scenery at Goalie. Im sorry, but we need an elite goalie to bail out our less than elite team. Howard isnt it. Thats plain and simple.

 

Whatever man If you know so much maybe you can see if you can get Kenny's job?



#243 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:16 PM

You want an elite goalie like Miller who is playing worse this season and has a more complete team in front of him? You would hate him in a week anyway, maybe we can rotate goalies off waivers until one gets us a shutout and then cut him as soon as he allows one goal. The goalie shuffle has worked out brilliantly for Philly over the years that's exactly what we need, consistency be damned.



Go take a look at elite goalie numbers this season like Quick, Miller, Lundqvist and compare those numbers to Howard and reassess the situation.


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#244 Richdg

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:18 PM

I guess we need a thread for each and every player. That way when they play well we can talk about their HOF career and when they play bad we can talk about how crappy they are.

As for Howard, not sure how much more he can do. If it wasn't for him we would have a losing record and be giving up 7 or 8 goals a game.



#245 LeftWinger

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:31 PM

An in his prime Brodeur would have a hard time with all the horrific turnovers this D produces. What we need is another top D man and less injuries

 

While I concur with this regarding our D, I am all for giving Howard a break and letting M-Raz get about 4 or 5 games in a row so Jimmy gets that little (or huge) push he needs to "defend" his #1 spot.  M-Raz is ready, and in two years he could very well be the #1 guy here. IMO he has more skills than Howard and is/will be the better of the two. Howard needs to sit and get angry about it and secure his job for the next couple of seasons...oh ya, winning big games in the playoffs once in awhile would help too...but that is a different book and right now this team is not in that story...


Edited by LeftWinger, 15 February 2013 - 11:32 PM.

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#246 LeftWinger

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:38 PM

Whatever man If you know so much maybe you can see if you can get Kenny's job?

 

Honestly, you dont have to be a GM to be a good judge of talent.  I can guarantee that half of the users on this forum can judge NHL talent just as good as Holland and some even better. Then only thing most of us lack is the business sense and aspect of the game.  I know Axe is far from a Jimmy supporter and he is entitled to his opinion.  I will NEVER like Franzine and nothing he can do or anyone can say will change my mind.  Just our opinions.  BUT, that doesn't mean that we or you or anyone cannot have a saavy sense of judging talent, we just don't have the means or resources Holland has or credentials to be in his spot.  But I am willing to bet if a few of our beloved friends on here had all of Hollands resourses and credentials and business sense, they would be just as good if not a better GM in the league...


Edited by LeftWinger, 15 February 2013 - 11:40 PM.

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#247 Richdg

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:55 PM

Honestly, you dont have to be a GM to be a good judge of talent.  I can guarantee that half of the users on this forum can judge NHL talent just as good as Holland and some even better. Then only thing most of us lack is the business sense and aspect of the game.  I know Axe is far from a Jimmy supporter and he is entitled to his opinion.  I will NEVER like Franzine and nothing he can do or anyone can say will change my mind.  Just our opinions.  BUT, that doesn't mean that we or you or anyone cannot have a saavy sense of judging talent, we just don't have the means or resources Holland has or credentials to be in his spot.  But I am willing to bet if a few of our beloved friends on here had all of Hollands resourses and credentials and business sense, they would be just as good if not a better GM in the league...

Yes and no. Yes most fans can see if player X has talent and plays well. the trick is can you see how well that player will play in 5 years. For even the best scouts and GM it is the toughest part of the job. The second hardest is not hitting the panic button things get tough. Yet at the sme time, trying to find ways to improve your team.



#248 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:01 AM

Honestly, you dont have to be a GM to be a good judge of talent.  I can guarantee that half of the users on this forum can judge NHL talent just as good as Holland and some even better. Then only thing most of us lack is the business sense and aspect of the game.  I know Axe is far from a Jimmy supporter and he is entitled to his opinion.  I will NEVER like Franzine and nothing he can do or anyone can say will change my mind.  Just our opinions.  BUT, that doesn't mean that we or you or anyone cannot have a saavy sense of judging talent, we just don't have the means or resources Holland has or credentials to be in his spot.  But I am willing to bet if a few of our beloved friends on here had all of Hollands resourses and credentials and business sense, they would be just as good if not a better GM in the league...

 

It's fine to have an opinion but when you come off as you KNOW IT ALL and your opinion matters every time you post a thread? Yeah that says it all. Howard is average thread says it all. Thread should be locked in my opinion.

 

Next thing we will be hearing next year/season or this year is Dats or Z is average. Stupid thread tbh and I'm ashamed as a Wings fan to be posting in it. Night fellow Wings fans...


Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 16 February 2013 - 12:02 AM.


#249 The Axe

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:11 AM

He's currently 29th in save percentage, 32nd in goals against average, and 15th in wins. I think I might have been generous in saying he's average.

#250 GMRwings1983

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:10 AM

Why are people offended when Howard is called average?

 

Is that a derogatory term?


According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#251 The Greek

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:31 AM

He's currently 29th in save percentage, 32nd in goals against average, and 15th in wins. I think I might have been generous in saying he's average.


What's the minimum number of games played in your sample?

#252 The Axe

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:00 AM

What's the minimum number of games played in your sample?


From NHL.com.

#253 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:21 AM

From NHL.com.

Yes this is called "the source" but it doesn't answer the question of how minimum games played factor into these numbers. 14 goalies in front of Howard have played 3 games or less, which pretty much puts your statistics on Howard in the null and void column. He is currently in company with these awful goaltenders going by what you are looking at on NHL.com; Miller, Lundqvist, Ward, Backstrom, and Fleury. Statistically he's ahead of Quick, Bryzgalov, Smith, and Halak respectively. 

 

So unless you are considering Yann Danis the best goalie in the league this year, who sits at number 1 on your list along with Chad Johnson and Darcy Krumper who also are on top of the list from your source, the numbers you offer are just flat out wrong. You can't really count one or two games played by backup goalies and throw Howard that far down the rankings, not quite how stats work in this argument.


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#254 The Axe

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:41 AM

Yes this is called "the source" but it doesn't answer the question of how minimum games played factor into these numbers. 14 goalies in front of Howard have played 3 games or less, which pretty much puts your statistics on Howard in the null and void column. He is currently in company with these awful goaltenders going by what you are looking at on NHL.com; Miller, Lundqvist, Ward, Backstrom, and Fleury. Statistically he's ahead of Quick, Bryzgalov, Smith, and Halak respectively. 
 
So unless you are considering Yann Danis the best goalie in the league this year, who sits at number 1 on your list along with Chad Johnson and Darcy Krumper who also are on top of the list from your source, the numbers you offer are just flat out wrong. You can't really count one or two games played by backup goalies and throw Howard that far down the rankings, not quite how stats work in this argument.


You make a valid point. So pick a number of games started that suits you and throw out the goalies that dont have that many. Say 7 or 8? He's still in the middle of the pack to low end. And he'd be lower in the win column if he wasnt starting every game. You cant dance around it much longer. He's getting exposed for what he is = a good goalie, which makes him average in the NHL.

#255 13dangledangle

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:57 AM

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....Ladies and Gentlemen Jimmy "F%$*ing" Howard.

#256 Euro_Twins

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

You make a valid point. So pick a number of games started that suits you and throw out the goalies that dont have that many. Say 7 or 8? He's still in the middle of the pack to low end. And he'd be lower in the win column if he wasnt starting every game. You cant dance around it much longer. He's getting exposed for what he is = a good goalie, which makes him average in the NHL.

 

He is a good goalie in the nhl, with poor defense in front of him. name 10 goalies that are "elite"



#257 CrimsonFlame

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:28 AM

He is a good goalie in the nhl, with poor defense in front of him. name 10 goalies that are "elite"

 

If 10 goalies are "elite" then they aren't really elite after all...



#258 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:10 PM

While I concur with this regarding our D, I am all for giving Howard a break and letting M-Raz get about 4 or 5 games in a row so Jimmy gets that little (or huge) push he needs to "defend" his #1 spot.  M-Raz is ready, and in two years he could very well be the #1 guy here. IMO he has more skills than Howard and is/will be the better of the two. Howard needs to sit and get angry about it and secure his job for the next couple of seasons...oh ya, winning big games in the playoffs once in awhile would help too...but that is a different book and right now this team is not in that story...

I agree.  I would go as far as to say this is an experiment year and the 2 goalies can split time until Monster comes back and then get Mrazek carrying the load again in GR.  I'm really liking what we're seeing from all the GR boys.  


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#259 The Axe

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:16 PM

I agree.  I would go as far as to say this is an experiment year and the 2 goalies can split time until Monster comes back and then get Mrazek carrying the load again in GR.  I'm really liking what we're seeing from all the GR boys.  


Yes. The young guys are ready.

#260 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:27 PM

It's fine to have an opinion but when you come off as you KNOW IT ALL and your opinion matters every time you post a thread? Yeah that says it all. Howard is average thread says it all. Thread should be locked in my opinion.

 

Next thing we will be hearing next year/season or this year is Dats or Z is average. Stupid thread tbh and I'm ashamed as a Wings fan to be posting in it. Night fellow Wings fans...

If that happens, it's the apocalypse and the world should probably blow up.  i sincerely hope that if a thread comes up saying that Dats or Z are average that Matt makes the thread disappear FBI style, leaving no trace of its existence.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag






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