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Howard = Average


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#21 Euro_Twins

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:15 PM

Perhaps this is the Red Wing's take on "parity"?

 

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#22 GMRwings1983

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:25 PM

Howard is exactly the goalie we need. Solid but not amazing at a price that allows us to build a team around him. In the cap era, squandering money on an elite goaltender is not worth it because no goalie will consistently steal games for you. A solid defense goes much farther.

 

 

Howard is an average goalie who gets paid like an average goalie.  That was OK when we had the best top two defensive pairings in the league, but not anymore.  

 

I don't see us building the best defense in the league front of him anytime soon.  At the same time, who will let us have an elite goalie in a trade or through free agency?  


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#23 CrimsonFlame

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:28 PM

Howard is an average goalie who gets paid like an average goalie.  That was OK when we had the best top two defensive pairings in the league, but not anymore.  

 

I don't see us building the best defense in the league front of him anytime soon.  At the same time, who will let us have an elite goalie in a trade or through free agency?  

 

Howard is an average goalie who gets paid like an average goalie.  That was OK when we had the best top two defensive pairings in the league, but not anymore.  

 

I don't see us building the best defense in the league front of him anytime soon.  At the same time, who will let us have an elite goalie in a trade or through free agency?  

 

I agree with this.  I don't know how many years are left on Howard's contract but isn't he going to be asking for a pay raise when the time comes?  I think there will be a problem then, but for right now we need to focus on repairing our shattered defense.



#24 Euro_Twins

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:29 PM

I agree with this.  I don't know how many years are left on Howard's contract but isn't he going to be asking for a pay raise when the time comes?  I think there will be a problem then, but for right now we need to focus on repairing our shattered defense.

 

He is UFA after this season



#25 GMRwings1983

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:31 PM

He is UFA after this season

 

I wouldn't give him any kind of pay increase unless he steals lots of games and improves his crappy stats.

 

Unfortunately, the Wings don't have ready goalies in the minors like everyone else seems to have plenty of.  Maybe Mrazek, but he's young and we don't know if he can handle the NHL yet.   


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#26 CrimsonFlame

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

He is UFA after this season

 

How much do you think he will ask for and how much do you think he is worth?



#27 evilzyme

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

I agree with this.  I don't know how many years are left on Howard's contract but isn't he going to be asking for a pay raise when the time comes?  I think there will be a problem then, but for right now we need to focus on repairing our shattered defense.

 

In my personal opinion, big emphasis on MY PERSONAL, I think Jimmy is the type of guy that would take a hometown discount. Basically saying, I think he wants to be a franchise goalie, he wants to be a Red Wing for his career. It's always struck me like that from day one, and honestly I couldn't see the guy going somewhere else. So, with that, I honestly can't see Jimmy asking for some outrageous contract, especially when he can be very judgmental of himself and his play. He will blame himself for losses that weren't even on him, he strives to give the team every chance he can, I love that motivation from him. Hell, he was our only enforcer for a few! 


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#28 Euro_Twins

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:39 PM

I wouldn't give him any kind of pay increase unless he steals lots of games and improves his crappy stats.

 

Unfortunately, the Wings don't have ready goalies in the minors like everyone else seems to have plenty of.  Maybe Mrazek, but he's young and we don't know if he can handle the NHL yet.   

 

We will find out soon enough if Mrazek is ready.

 

 

 

How much do you think he will ask for and how much do you think he is worth?

 

I think he will get 4 years 12-14 million. We don't have a lot of options, and the coaches and management have a lot of faith in him. 



#29 F.Michael

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:27 PM

Well that's it...Lets send Hank, or Dats to Vancouver for Luongo ;)

 

In reality - our D isn't very good; too many 2 on 1's, too many break aways, and our D isn't very good at clearing the opposition away from the crease.

 

J-Ho isn't the issue here.



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#30 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:31 PM

Every goalie in the league gets screened. Howie just needs to fight harder to see around and through the screens. Bottom line, he's not fighting hard enough.

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#31 F.Michael

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:34 PM

Every goalie in the league gets screened. Howie just needs to fight harder to see around and through the screens. Bottom line, he's not fighting hard enough.

Is it that, or is our D not putting enough pressure on the opposing forwards who screen Howard?

 

I think it's a bit of both.



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#32 CrimsonFlame

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:35 PM

Well that's it...Lets send Hank, or Dats to Vancouver for Luongo ;)

 

In reality - our D isn't very good; too many 2 on 1's, too many break aways, and our D isn't very good at clearing the opposition away from the crease.

 

J-Ho isn't the issue here.

 

I don't think J-Ho is a nickname you want to call someone you like...



#33 F.Michael

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:38 PM

I don't think J-Ho is a nickname you want to call someone you like...

Who says I like him?

 

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#34 Carman

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:47 PM

Howard is not the problem, the Red Wings lead the league on 2 on 1's, and breakaways the highest chance of scoring chances there are, it's not a surprise his stats reflect.

 

The only thing we can come to a judgement on is that Howard is not a generational type goalie that can steal games behind the worst defense in the league.

 

But I'd like to hear what current goalies in the NHL can? A goalies stats are so reliant on the defense in front of them, Mike Smith was a top 5 goalie last year, solely because of the defensive system. Brian Elliot and Halak are another examples of system goalies. Who are the Hasek's of today's age? The elite goalies of today struggle just as much as we are seeing Jimmy struggle now. RInnie had a .911, 2.53 GAA season, Quick had a .907, 2.54 season and currently has a sub .900 SV% like Jimmy. Haseek had a .896 SV% 3.25 GAA Season. Curtis Joseph .886 SV% 3.44 GAA. Patrick Roy had a .875 SV% 3.35 GAA. These are at least 40 game segments of "elite" goalies, Are all these goalie not capable of stealing games? No. They just played on poor defensive teams, much like Jimmy is playing behind right now.

 

I think Howard get taken for granted a lot here, watch other teams. Rebounds happen on each and every goalie. It's true Howard hasn't been amazing this stretch, but put whatever other elite goalie you want behind the team leading the league in odd man rushes and you'll have the same result each and every time. To give you an idea Jimmy Howard has a better career SV% to Martin Brodeur and Patrick. Not that it means anything, the game has changed a bit, but it shows that Howard can win games, and be an all-star goalie for a cheaper salary.


Edited by Carman, 06 February 2013 - 01:49 PM.


#35 VM1138

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:51 PM

Howard hasn't been stellar this season, but that's okay.  He needs to steal an odd game but the defense is terrible.  The players, .the strategy, all of it.  We don't need an elite defense but a good one would help Howard immensely.


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#36 beachwing

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:54 PM

So Howie would have had to throw two shutouts against CBJ and CAL for us to win or as most of you state....to steal a game or keep us in it or give us a chance. Howie least of our problems!

#37 evilmrt

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:15 PM

The only reason I can think of as to why people are blaming any of the Wings' poor performance on Jimmy Howard is....ignorance. They simply don't understand the game, and can't recognize that this is the worst Defensive squad that this team has put together since...

 

Since the 80s? I'm too young to answer this one. 



#38 Euro_Twins

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:26 PM

The only reason I can think of as to why people are blaming any of the Wings' poor performance on Jimmy Howard is....ignorance. They simply don't understand the game, and can't recognize that this is the worst Defensive squad that this team has put together since...

 

Since the 80s? I'm too young to answer this one. 

 

 

The only reason I can think of as to why people are blaming any of the Wings' poor performance on Jimmy Howard is....ignorance. They simply don't understand the game, and can't recognize that this is the worst Defensive squad that this team has put together since...

 

Since the 80s? I'm too young to answer this one. 

 

Lol, don't bother with wondering why wings fans do what they do. Since I have been a fan of the wings (maybe 93' when I was around 5) all I can remember hearing from fellow wings fans was "osgood is garbage get rid of him" "we will never win with vernon" "Hasek is washed up, this team is going down the drain" "our goalie is the reason we lost" "it's all the goalies fault" "Legace is such a terrible goalie" blah blah blah... wings fans are so awful to the goalies, then they look back and talk about them like they were Gods and loved him all along. "well he's nowhere near Osgood or Hasek caliber" "at this point I would take maracle back" "Howard isn't elite like Ozzy was"... funny 15 years ago you said Ozzy would never be "elite" even after they win a cup, everything is still the goalies fault. We only won cause of our defense, our goalie was sub par... get a life people



#39 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

The only reason I can think of as to why people are blaming any of the Wings' poor performance on Jimmy Howard is....ignorance. They simply don't understand the game, and can't recognize that this is the worst Defensive squad that this team has put together since...

 

Since the 80s? I'm too young to answer this one. 

Well, by simple virtue of not having Lids on the blueline any defensive corps is going to take a major step down so yeah, you'd have to go back to the days when #5 was Darren Veitch.  And right now Kindl is looking like another Yves Racine.  (i'm old :P)

 

But yeah, this is a very piecemeal looking collection.  A lot of middle pairing guys at best, many of whom aren't even playing like a middle pairing.   

 

Howard isn't anywhere near the top of the problems with the Wings right now.  He's not elite but very good.  And with the cap continuing to get ratcheted down it's probably better to have a value goaltender than having a ton of cap space tied up in one player.



#40 shoobiedoobin

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 02:40 PM

Howard kept is in a lot of games until now. Where were you then?

 

We lose, Howard sucks, every forward sucks, every defender sucks, the world is ending, get the razorblades and candles it's time to check out!

 

We win, we're awesome, life is good and we're acting as peppy as a guy in an ad for boner pills.

 

I wonder why I even come here after a loss.







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