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Howard = Average


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#741 DickieDunn

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:12 AM

One goal off a bad pass didn't cost the game. The fact that Glendening scored the only goal cost the game.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#742 gcom007

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 11:38 AM

So it's too late to treat an old dog new tricks? There is no way Howard could actually try to improve his puck handling skills? After all he is a highly skilled athlete. Or are you saying his genetic makeup makes it impossible to learn how to handle the puck well enough to make a bantam league moronic mistake in a major NHL playoff game? Obviously I am being sarcastic. In 2001 Datsyuk was easy to push around and made too many moves. Were those his weaknesses he had to accept for the rest of his career? Every single year he has modified and improved his training and skills. He is constantly evolving. Howard isn't close to the level of Datsyuk, but he can take a cue and do real work to improve his weaknesses.


I never said that I don't think he should improve that area of his game. I said it shouldn't be surprising because thus far, he's not been a good puck handler. A bonehead play like this was just waiting to happen given his ability or lack thereof. Frankly, it's why his little Mrazak comment from game 1 was a little alarming to me, because the playoffs is not the time to shake things up, especially in a part of your game that has been notoriously weak.

But I'd love it if Howard worked as hard in he the summer on his weaknesses like Dats and the other greats do. That's why they get paid. Jimmy gets paid like them to. I was saying he should do this years ago if you were to go back and look at some old posts. He's got a solid skill set but he has clear areas that need improvement, and improving in those areas could really help him reach those highs more consistently and authoritatively.
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#743 Wheelchairsuperhero

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:09 PM

One goal off a bad pass didn't cost the game. The fact that Glendening scored the only goal cost the game.

While I agree we needed to score more goals, and definitely could've used the pp not being terrible, I don't think you can say one way or the other whether that cost us the game.
Things could've been completely different had that play not happened. Momentum and playing from behind are big things.

Edited by Wheelchairsuperhero, 21 April 2014 - 12:12 PM.


#744 DickieDunn

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 12:39 PM

One goal off a bad pass didn't cost the game. The fact that Glendening scored the only goal cost the game.While I agree we needed to score more goals, and definitely could've used the pp not being terrible, I don't think you can say one way or the other whether that cost us the game.
Things could've been completely different had that play not happened. Momentum and playing from behind are big things.


If you let a play like that kill you you don't deserve to win

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#745 roboturner

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:32 PM

If you let a play like that kill you you don't deserve to win

That'd be fine if this was the Wings of '02 or '08/'09. This current Wings team can't overcome those kinds of stupid mistakes in a series where they are clearly over matched talent-wise. They need everybody playing their best hockey right now, including especially the goaltender.

Howard of Game 1 gives us an excellent chance to win this series.

Howard of Game 2 means we're not gonna win another game till October.


This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

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#746 cnot19

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:46 PM

I do not want Howard stick handling anytime soon, he simply isn't good enough at it. What I rally would like to see him work on is knocking down dump ins behind the net and settling dump ins behind the net for the d men. He doesn't have to make any passes or anything like that simply leave it in the trapezoid after stopping the dump in, makes it much easier on defenseman specially against hard forechecking teams, trust me. 


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#747 Wheelchairsuperhero

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 03:51 PM

That'd be fine if this was the Wings of '02 or '08/'09. This current Wings team can't overcome those kinds of stupid mistakes in a series where they are clearly over matched talent-wise. They need everybody playing their best hockey right now, including especially the goaltender.
Howard of Game 1 gives us an excellent chance to win this series.
Howard of Game 2 means we're not gonna win another game till October.

At work so I haven't been able to post for a bit, but this is about what I would've said. These are the Bruins, can't give them momentum. That goal let them dictate the pace. Like I said though I'm not saying it's the reason we lost, I'm just saying you can't definitively say one way or the other if it cost us the game. Who knows how we would've played had we scored first, or kept the board at 0's like game one. I do know our PP has to start doing something though.

Edited by Wheelchairsuperhero, 21 April 2014 - 03:52 PM.


#748 Mitchmac33

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:22 PM

I gotta say, I felt quite vindicated after seeing the responses here & in the GDT to that utterly ridiculous "pass", if it can even be called that, by Howie. I just hope that everybody can now see what I've been talking about in terms of his lack of puck-handling skills coming back to bite us.

 

We almost surely would have lost that game regardless, as Boston thoroughly out-played us. But, when you are an underdog against the Presidents Trophy winners and you're trying to weather the storm early in a game, you absolutely can not have you're goalie making bonehead plays and spotting them their first goal of the series. That goal, and to a lesser extent the second goal, completely changed everything. Demoralizing. Any intimidation that we had from game 1 vanished in an instant. Just can't happen.

 

When you're an underdog you also can't get into a penalty war and go 2/4 on the kill and 0/4 on the PP.  Blame can't fall only on Jimmy.  I'm not trying to say he had a strong game, because he didn't, but nor did anyone else really (besides Datsyuk).



#749 roboturner

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 04:58 PM

 

When you're an underdog you also can't get into a penalty war and go 2/4 on the kill and 0/4 on the PP.  Blame can't fall only on Jimmy.  I'm not trying to say he had a strong game, because he didn't, but nor did anyone else really (besides Datsyuk).

I wasn't blaming it only on Jimmy, like I said, we probably would have lost regardless (that's on the whole team), and that everybody has to be playing their best right now. But seeing as how the goalie, regardless of who it is, is the last line of defense, they can't be making the same stupid mistakes as everybody else. Especially if they are going to leave the net wide open and then make a boneheaded 'pass' that not even a magician like dats would have been able to receive. If a defenceman had made that atrocious pass, at least someone would have been in the net to make a play on it.


This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#750 IndianaRedWing

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:56 PM

That'd be fine if this was the Wings of '02 or '08/'09. This current Wings team can't overcome those kinds of stupid mistakes in a series where they are clearly over matched talent-wise. They need everybody playing their best hockey right now, including especially the goaltender.

Howard of Game 1 gives us an excellent chance to win this series.

Howard of Game 2 means we're not gonna win another game till October.

 

Then prepare to lose. 

 

When was the last time a team won the cup by having their goalie steal 16 games? If Hasek, Brodeur, and Roy didn't steal every game (or even every win), you can be reasonable sure that Howard won't either.

 

The problem here is that someone could just as easily rewrite that post by saying "This isn't the Wings of '02 . . . they don't have a Dominic Hasek in his prime. They can't afford to be scoring one goal per game, frittering away their power plays. The decision to accept lack of talent among 18 skaters but not the 19th is just baffling to me. It's completely and utterly arbitrary. 

 

Focusing on Howard just strikes me as lazy. It's easier to point fingers at one guy than at 18. 

 

Yes, having your goalie give up an early goal can have some vague effect on morale which can alter the course of the game.

 

You know what else can have a vague effect on morale which can alter the course of the game? Not waiting until 30 minutes in to get on the board. Jumping on the opponent and making them second-guess themselves has that effect, too.

 

This is funny - I don't think I've ever been fully on the Howard bandwagon. I'm not his biggest cheerleader. It's just that I don't agree with singling him out.


Edited by IndianaRedWing, 21 April 2014 - 08:59 PM.


#751 Wheelchairsuperhero

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:19 PM

 
Then prepare to lose. 
 
When was the last time a team won the cup by having their goalie steal 16 games? If Hasek, Brodeur, and Roy didn't steal every game (or even every win), you can be reasonable sure that Howard won't either.
 
The problem here is that someone could just as easily rewrite that post by saying "This isn't the Wings of '02 . . . they don't have a Dominic Hasek in his prime. They can't afford to be scoring one goal per game, frittering away their power plays. The decision to accept lack of talent among 18 skaters but not the 19th is just baffling to me. It's completely and utterly arbitrary. 
 
Focusing on Howard just strikes me as lazy. It's easier to point fingers at one guy than at 18. 
 
Yes, having your goalie give up an early goal can have some vague effect on morale which can alter the course of the game.
 
You know what else can have a vague effect on morale which can alter the course of the game? Not waiting until 30 minutes in to get on the board. Jumping on the opponent and making them second-guess themselves has that effect, too.
 
This is funny - I don't think I've ever been fully on the Howard bandwagon. I'm not his biggest cheerleader. It's just that I don't agree with singling him out.


Not trying to sound snarky here but, have you been reading the posts? He isn't being singled out, at least that's not how I've been looking at it. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees the team played like crap. But giving Howard NONE of the blame is ridiculous.

Edit: and I also don't think anyone expects us to win 16 consecutive, but I think hoping that we don't give games away (like I think we did in game 2) isn't unreasonable.

Edited by Wheelchairsuperhero, 21 April 2014 - 09:20 PM.


#752 IndianaRedWing

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 09:27 PM

I only scanned the last several posts. I'm sure I'm not completely up to speed on everything that's been written on LGW.

 

It just seemed like "here we go again. If the wings are going to win, Howard needs to stand on his head. Howard proceeds not to stand on his head and the Wings lose. Ergo, Howard is a bum."

 

I hear it from other people, I see it on other sites, and I thought I was seeing it again here.

 

FWIW, I think my game 3-4 key is the power play. I expect Detroit to play with a jump back at the Joe, and think playing at home will help with the zebras. What they do with those chances will probably have a lot to do with how the series stands going back to Boston.

 

Unless Howie follows up game 2 by giving up a six-spot in game 3. If that happens, I'll just disappear in shame until next playoff season, lol



#753 Wheelchairsuperhero

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:00 PM

I only scanned the last several posts. I'm sure I'm not completely up to speed on everything that's been written on LGW.
 
It just seemed like "here we go again. If the wings are going to win, Howard needs to stand on his head. Howard proceeds not to stand on his head and the Wings lose. Ergo, Howard is a bum."
 
I hear it from other people, I see it on other sites, and I thought I was seeing it again here.
 
FWIW, I think my game 3-4 key is the power play. I expect Detroit to play with a jump back at the Joe, and think playing at home will help with the zebras. What they do with those chances will probably have a lot to do with how the series stands going back to Boston.
 
Unless Howie follows up game 2 by giving up a six-spot in game 3. If that happens, I'll just disappear in shame until next playoff season, lol

I like Jimmy. He's had a rough year but I think he's a good goalie. He does play the puck like crap though. I agree on the power play. Special teams are key here.

#754 Hack & Whack Rule!

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 10:06 PM

To be fair, this thread was started in February...of 2013. That's over a year ago. It's a thread that is basically calling Howard an average goalie, with no skills that make him exceptional. There was another thread that was praising Howard, and it started fairly recently, but it was locked because it was going to turn into a "Bash Howard" thread.

 

I agree that nobody has blamed Howard for yesterday's loss, but he is getting called out for his completely stupid play that lead to Boston's first goal. I fully believe that Jimmy is to blame for that one, 100%. If I were a high school football coach, I'd say 115%. Let's be realistic guys...a goal like that can change a game on such a high level. It's one that Booins should not have had. Of course, if Glendenning is our only goal scorer, there's no way to win, so it's on everybody.


Uhh...you might want to duck!

#755 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:08 AM

Ok Jimmy!  We need to see the Jimmy from game 1.  We need you to stand tall!  You can do this!



#756 VM1138

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:39 AM

His puck handling wouldn't even be a big deal if he didn't try to handle it all the time. Play to your strengths, Howard. Cover that puck if you need to.
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#757 Euro_Twins

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:13 AM

His puck handling wouldn't even be a big deal if he didn't try to handle it all the time. Play to your strengths, Howard. Cover that puck if you need to.


Lol. Wings fans one game: Jimmy needs to stop covering the puck and play it more. He needs to work on it, he won't get better at it unless he works at it.

Next game : Jimmy needs to stop playing the puck, just cover it all the time

#758 roboturner

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:29 AM

Lol. Wings fans one game: Jimmy needs to stop covering the puck and play it more. He needs to work on it, he won't get better at it unless he works at it.

Next game : Jimmy needs to stop playing the puck, just cover it all the time

You know different people are allowed to have different opinions, right?


Edited by roboturner, 22 April 2014 - 11:32 AM.

This might be getting a little heated. Just know I don't hate any of you guys.

 

That doesn't mean that I respect ideas & opinions. Some ideas & opinions are ridiculous.

 

In fact, if you confront my ideas & opinions, that will lead to a discussion. (We're on a discussion board after all. Don't forget that!)

 

  :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1: :bye1:


#759 Euro_Twins

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:07 PM

You know different people are allowed to have different opinions, right?


Yup. And my opinion is that it's amusing that one day everyone wants Jimmy to play the puck, then when he does, everyone wants him to stop.

#760 Ekmanc

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:36 PM

Lol. Wings fans one game: Jimmy needs to stop covering the puck and play it more. He needs to work on it, he won't get better at it unless he works at it.

Next game : Jimmy needs to stop playing the puck, just cover it all the time

He can work on it some other time than during this playoff series.







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