98 replies to this topic

[nyqvististhefuture]

biggest mistake the wings have done in my opinion is being way too loyal to the veterans and past players instead of letting the kids play , it really bugs the hell out of me that we signed samuelsson in the summer and now hes only played 2 games and is out yet again with a damn groin injury(pretty sure he always had that when he was here )

 

tatar is in his 4th season in grand rapids , nyquist should of started the season in the top 6 .... guys like  mursak,samuelsson,miller,bertuzzi they should all be gone 

 

we cant expect to add in a bunch of rookies all in the same year , we have to gradually insert them into our lineup so they can learn from the veterans

 

I know tatar and andersson and probably lashoff will eventually all be back in the ahl but both tatar and lashoff as well as nyquist should be up

 

its time to get rid of the junk this team has and let the future get some games in

[shoobiedoobin]

Our desire for new toys doesn't negate the fact that the loyalty we show is very appealing to players. We don't treat our players like video game characters or trading cards and that makes us look very good. We take care of our guys.

Edited by shoobiedoobin, 12 February 2013 - 06:28 PM.

[Number19]

waste the last couple of years of the greatest d-man of this generation with a middling roster.

[fat guy in a maltby jersey]

all-time?

 

could be not giving up osgood for roy after the 11-1 game.  probably directly cost them multiple cups.

 

recenlty, keeping franzen over hossa looks really, really bad.

[The Axe]

Krupp

[shoobiedoobin]

all-time?

 

could be not giving up osgood for roy after the 11-1 game.  probably directly cost them multiple cups.

 

recenlty, keeping franzen over hossa looks really, really bad.

I still think there was much more to the Colorado/Montreal trade than anyone involved let on. I don't think we would've gotten him, he'd made up his mind that he was going to Colorado before we shelled him.

 

The rumor anyway was Ozzie and Fedorov. Sorry, no thanks.

[puckbags]

biggest mistake the wings have done in my opinion is being way too loyal to the veterans and past players instead of letting the kids play , it really bugs the hell out of me that we signed samuelsson in the summer and now hes only played 2 games and is out yet again with a damn groin injury(pretty sure he always had that when he was here )

 

tatar is in his 4th season in grand rapids , nyquist should of started the season in the top 6 .... guys like  mursak,samuelsson,miller,bertuzzi they should all be gone 

 

we cant expect to add in a bunch of rookies all in the same year , we have to gradually insert them into our lineup so they can learn from the veterans

 

I know tatar and andersson and probably lashoff will eventually all be back in the ahl but both tatar and lashoff as well as nyquist should be up

 

its time to get rid of the junk this team has and let the future get some games in

 

If these are what we are considering mistakes then I'm pretty sure I won't lose any sleep tonight over them.  Been a fan for 20 years and we have won 4 cups in that time and we are questioning the over protective loyalty of this franchise? Loyalty of any sort is almost impossible to find these days..maybe we need more of it?

[dirtydangles]

RECENT:

losing hossa for franzen

trading for quincey

re-signing sammy

holding onto vets too long

[The Axe]

RECENT:
losing hossa for franzen
trading for quincey
re-signing sammy
holding onto vets too long

I dont think you will get much disagreement there.

[blgillett]

I wouldn't say bringing back Burt was bad he was very good last year. The biggest mistake with out a doubt was bringing in Krupp with out any other close to that bone head move

[eb9]

They Kyle Quincey deal really didn't make much sense to me.  We got back a player we already had, albeit a little bit better than when he left, but we had to give up a decent amount to get him back. 

 

I think the loyalty is a very good thing for the RW to have.  In the past we've gotten quality players at a discount because of it.  I am still hopefull that will continue to work for us.

[DSM]

RECENT:

losing hossa for franzen

trading for quincey

re-signing sammy

holding onto vets too long

 

Hindsight's 20/20 on the first two. If you combine the regular season and playoffs, Franzen and Hossa had the same number of goals that season. Franzen seemed to be on the upswing, and he came cheaper. Retaining Hossa would've meant dumping another player as well. Since the Wings were in a cap crunch, retaining Franzen made sense.

 

The Quincey trade made sense to help alleviate the loss of atleast Stuart. He wasn't that great at the end of last season, but he has been coming around as of late.

 

Can't really dog the re-signing of Samuelsson yet because he's only played two games...

 

And finally, other than Osgood's last couple of years, I can't think of any veteran players that were ever a liability to the team. Did we hang on to Lidstrom too long?

 

I'm going to come way out of left field with mine....

 

I'm not going to say it was a mistake, but I always thought Holland should have signed Belfour instead of Cujo in the summer of 2002.

[kipwinger]

The loyalty argument is pretty hard to quantify in terms of effects.  While it's easy to say that loyalty cost us when talking about Hossa, or whomever, it's a lot harder to say how much good it did in determining Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, etc. decisions to take less than market value on their new contracts. 

 

Like everything else, the effects of the Wings loyalty are not really all that black and white.  Which is a tough pill to swallow for those attempting to find a problem to point at. 

[DSM]

I wouldn't say bringing back Burt was bad he was very good last year. The biggest mistake with out a doubt was bringing in Krupp with out any other close to that bone head move

 

I wouldn't say signing Krupp was a mistake. A 6'6" Dman who could play in both ends of the ice that had won a cup with Colorado. He was supposed to fill the void left by Konstantinov. Bowman loved the guy, having drafted him in Buffalo. I don't think the Red Wings anticipated that he was going to get hurt and then go dog sledding while he was supposed to be healing. However, without that little debacle the Wings would have had no need to trade for Chelios later that season.

 

The mistake was lifting his suspension and letting him play the last year of his contract. He only played a handful of games before shutting it down for the regular season. Bowman decided to put him in the line up in Olausson's place at the start of the playoffs, and we lost thefirst 2 games to Vancouver. Krupp was like a -4 over both games. After that, he was done. Thank god we won that series and eventually the cup...

Edited by DSM, 12 February 2013 - 10:11 PM.

[Barrie]

all-time?

 

could be not giving up osgood for roy after the 11-1 game.  probably directly cost them multiple cups.

 

recenlty, keeping franzen over hossa looks really, really bad.

 

I've heard that argument before about not getting Roy cost us extra Cups. Remember Roy only won 2 cups with Colorado, on a team that was very similar to the Wings, and on paper had better goaltending. I highly doubt we would have won anymore than 3 with Roy.

 

As great as Roy was, his big ego and taking things to personal, cost the Avs extra championships. In certain situations, Roy couldn't handle the pressure. He had some big loses, three from us (1995, 1997, and 2002). Add to that, I don't think he could handle being the Red Wings goalie, as we're historically tough on our goalies. He's a big baby, just imagine how he'd react if he started booing him. Ozzie with his level head and mental toughness was a perfect goalie for this market.

 

If the original offer for Roy would have cost us Osgood and Fedorov, maybe we only would have won 2 Cups with Roy, or only 1. Imagine our run from 1997-2002 without Fedorov? Fedorov was excellent for us in the playoffs.

[matt198913]

all-time?
 
could be not giving up osgood for roy after the 11-1 game.  probably directly cost them multiple cups.
 
recenlty, keeping franzen over hossa looks really, really bad.

Multiple cups? I doubt it highly.

Franzen or Hossa.... Well Hossa wanted a ton of money for a pisspoor playoff, while Franzen just scores around 10 goals durring a playoff run.

Edited by matt198913, 12 February 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[GMRwings1983]

Our desire for new toys doesn't negate the fact that the loyalty we show is very appealing to players. We don't treat our players like video game characters or trading cards and that makes us look very good. We take care of our guys.

 

I don't like that sentiment.

 

"Our guys" have been handsomely paid for their services in Hockeytown, as well as rewarded with big games in important playoff moments.  Not like these guys were interns all this time working for free.

 

This organization doesn't owe these guys anything.  Veterans should be kept around if they can still play better than the younger guys.  Players like Bertuzzi and Cleary don't deserve a permanent place in the lineup with total immunity.  Yet, that appears to be what they have.  

[matt198913]

 
I've heard that argument before about not getting Roy cost us extra Cups. Remember Roy only won 2 cups with Colorado, on a team that was very similar to the Wings, and on paper had better goaltending. I highly doubt we would have won anymore than 3 with Roy.
 
As great as Roy was, his big ego and taking things to personal, cost the Avs extra championships. In certain situations, Roy couldn't handle the pressure. He had some big loses, three from us (1995, 1997, and 2002). Add to that, I don't think he could handle being the Red Wings goalie, as we're historically tough on our goalies. He's a big baby, just imagine how he'd react if he started booing him. Ozzie with his level head and mental toughness was a perfect goalie for this market.
 
If the original offer for Roy would have cost us Osgood and Fedorov, maybe we only would have won 2 Cups with Roy, or only 1. Imagine our run from 1997-2002 without Fedorov? Fedorov was excellent for us in the playoffs.

Fedorov was perhaps the greatest 2-way player ever. The guy could make an all star team playing defense or offense. Unreal talent, would have never traded him unless you were getting a top teir forward to replace him

[Barrie]

I'll add, for a team that's won 4 Championships since 1997, and 6 Cup appearances since 1995 (By far the best in the League), it's tough to nit pick on mistakes.

Fedorov was perhaps the greatest 2-way player ever. The guy could make an all star team playing defense or offense. Unreal talent, would have never traded him unless you were getting a top teir forward to replace him

 

Right, there's NO WAY we would have won 3 Cups from 1997-2002 without Fedorov.

[fat guy in a maltby jersey]

fedorov wasn't part of the deal.  fedorov alone would be worth roy + more, obviously.

 

detroit didn't want to give up osgood, for some strange reason.