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nyqvististhefuture

Biggest mistake Red Wings have done

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I don't like that sentiment.

"Our guys" have been handsomely paid for their services in Hockeytown, as well as rewarded with big games in important playoff moments. Not like these guys were interns all this time working for free.

This organization doesn't owe these guys anything. Veterans should be kept around if they can still play better than the younger guys. Players like Bertuzzi and Cleary don't deserve a permanent place in the lineup with total immunity. Yet, that appears to be what they have.

This is how I feel. If the old guys dont put up the stats, then they should sit. But Babcock cant just sit a guy Holland is paying 2 mil a year to play.

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Miller has been a great asset...

For a guy who was picked up on waivers, I don't think you can complain.

The Roy trade, I have seen before a list of what Montreal supposedly wanted, and it didn't include Fedorov, it was a bunch of depth players who would have been easily replaced. Look at what it cost Colorado for Roy (and Keane as well) - Thibault, Rucinsky and Kovalenko.

I'm going to throw in as my selection picking Keith Primeau with the 3rd overall pick in the 1990 draft ahead of Jagr. Primeau was a decent player who helped get us Shanahan in the end, but he was Jagr,

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The loyalty argument is pretty hard to quantify in terms of effects. While it's easy to say that loyalty cost us when talking about Hossa, or whomever, it's a lot harder to say how much good it did in determining Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, etc. decisions to take less than market value on their new contracts.

Like everything else, the effects of the Wings loyalty are not really all that black and white. Which is a tough pill to swallow for those attempting to find a problem to point at.

Well said. I was trying to find a way to say exactly this without going on too long. You can't quantify the effects of loyalty without verbal confirmations.

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For a guy who was picked up on waivers, I don't think you can complain.

The Roy trade, I have seen before a list of what Montreal supposedly wanted, and it didn't include Fedorov, it was a bunch of depth players who would have been easily replaced. Look at what it cost Colorado for Roy (and Keane as well) - Thibault, Rucinsky and Kovalenko.

I'm going to throw in as my selection picking Keith Primeau with the 3rd overall pick in the 1990 draft ahead of Jagr. Primeau was a decent player who helped get us Shanahan in the end, but he was Jagr,

ya but who would have known, it's like complaining that we (and 29 other teams) passed on Rinne for 7 rounds and Nashville picked him up in the 8th round... Who would know for sure what would happen?

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im not talking about the past redwings teams im talking about the present , theres some guys here that shouldnt be here and are just here because of our loyal habits

teams need there draft picks to turn out to be nhl players now since the cap came into place and we seem to never give our kids a break and always keep filling up roster spots year after year with aging guys

did we really have to resign samuelsson??? didnt nyquist finally deserve a real shot?? tatar is in his 4th full season in the ahl for gods sake

i just think these guys should be inserted into the lineup here and there to blend in with the veterans like datsyuk,zetterberg,kronwall etc..

I dont think its gonna happen but what if jarnkrok makes the team next year?? thats gonna be what tatar nyquist andersson and jarnkrok all in the same year?? Knowing this team of late we'll probably end up trading nyquist and tatar at the deadline for a mid 30's player instead of giving the kids with some good potential a fair crack

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Knowing this team of late we'll probably end up trading nyquist and tatar at the deadline for a mid 30's player instead of giving the kids with some good potential a fair crack

Ugh I got physically ill just thinking of this possibly happening.

*edit for more

In fact the more I think about it we'll prolly trade them to get Hudler back and maybe Lieno :bad:

Edited by fixxxer

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The Franzen and Hossa debacle was the only thing I could consider awful. I don't understand the vitriol that the fans here give to Holland. Is it cause were not winning the cup every year in a league with parody? Cause if so, then you should be watching a different sport called Baseball. We retool and draft accordingly, we sign free agents as we see useful. Not getting Parise or Suter sucked, but what is Kenny gonna do when there isn't anything quality left in the position of need? Just being talented isn't the only things taken into account. Attitude, age, intensity, energy, cardio, skill along with cap space all factor. There are many others but it's not my expertise or else I'd be a GM. Just saying is all...

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I'll add, for a team that's won 4 Championships since 1997, and 6 Cup appearances since 1995 (By far the best in the League), it's tough to nit pick on mistakes.

The Devils have 3 cups and 5 cup appearances since 1995. Not too far behind.

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Problem with this team, and it's fanbase, IMO, is too much success. We've come to expect it. If we stumble a bit, we fans are looking to immediately dump the vets and bring in the young fresh blood. If we had that happen and they make their rookie mistakes that put the team in the same position win/loss wise, then we'd be calling for trades to get vets for "leadership". Kind of a good position to be in, either way.

Edited by SidAbelsSon

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I don't mind showing loyalty to the veteran Wings who have given us some good years, but I do mind these signings of older (mid 30s) middle-of-the-pack players like Samuelsson instead of bringing up the young guns like Nyquist. I'd like to see more of the young guys thrown into the deep end - give them experience and start establishing the future 20-something core of the team.

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im not talking about the past redwings teams im talking about the present , theres some guys here that shouldnt be here and are just here because of our loyal habits

teams need there draft picks to turn out to be nhl players now since the cap came into place and we seem to never give our kids a break and always keep filling up roster spots year after year with aging guys

did we really have to resign samuelsson??? didnt nyquist finally deserve a real shot?? tatar is in his 4th full season in the ahl for gods sake

i just think these guys should be inserted into the lineup here and there to blend in with the veterans like datsyuk,zetterberg,kronwall etc..

I dont think its gonna happen but what if jarnkrok makes the team next year?? thats gonna be what tatar nyquist andersson and jarnkrok all in the same year?? Knowing this team of late we'll probably end up trading nyquist and tatar at the deadline for a mid 30's player instead of giving the kids with some good potential a fair crack

I notice a lot of people throwing this "4 seasons in the AHL" thing for Tatar. The only reason this has happened, is because he signed up with the big club the season after he got drafted. Most guys don't sign till after they turn 20.

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Problem with this team, and it's fanbase, IMO, is too much success. We've come to expect it. If we stumble a bit, we fans are looking to immediately dump the vets and bring in the young fresh blood. If we had that happen and they make their rookie mistakes that put the team in the same position win/loss wise, then we'd be calling for trades to get vets for "leadership". Kind of a good position to be in, either way.

we cant just have aging vets on the team the younger kids have to come up and get experience from zetterberg ,datsyuk etc ... while there still here so they can then pass on the knowledge to the future kids we cant wait till those guys are gone or a year or 2 away from leaving

if we wait for that then we'll just have a bunch of rookies on the team and thats when the redwings will be a basement team for 5-10 years

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I notice a lot of people throwing this "4 seasons in the AHL" thing for Tatar. The only reason this has happened, is because he signed up with the big club the season after he got drafted. Most guys don't sign till after they turn 20.

the fact is hes still been there for 4 years now and hes ready to play in the nhl so we can see what kind of future he can have .... i dont think he will crack the lineup but what if jarnkrok makes the team next season ?? nyquist tatar and andersson are all out of waiver options next year are we suppose to add in jarnkrok nyquist tatar and andersson all next year???

Unfortunetly i think tatar and/or nyquist will be traded by the deadline so we wont ever have to deal with that problem

i do hope holland comes to his senses in this case and buys out samuelsson next year and lets guys like bertuzzi miller walk ... the kids need to play

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biggest mistake the wings have done in my opinion is being way too loyal to the veterans and past players instead of letting the kids play , it really bugs the hell out of me that we signed samuelsson in the summer and now hes only played 2 games and is out yet again with a damn groin injury(pretty sure he always had that when he was here )

tatar is in his 4th season in grand rapids , nyquist should of started the season in the top 6 .... guys like mursak,samuelsson,miller,bertuzzi they should all be gone

we cant expect to add in a bunch of rookies all in the same year , we have to gradually insert them into our lineup so they can learn from the veterans

I know tatar and andersson and probably lashoff will eventually all be back in the ahl but both tatar and lashoff as well as nyquist should be up

its time to get rid of the junk this team has and let the future get some games in

Something tells me that you are hot for Nyquist, perhaps a bit too much so. It's like, you think he is our future, even though he is relatively unproven at the NHL level. Can't quite put my finger on what gives me that impression. ;)

Samuelsson, Miller, and Bertuzzi have all proven themselves. All three are tougher than Nyquist. It's not like we have a lack of small skilled forwards on the team.

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If you get rid of all the old guys who do you call up in case of injuries? Depth is importmant and having young guys on two way deals insures that you won't be dressing crap players when it matters. Much like helm played mor playoff games then regular season games, when playoffs come, or the wings are struggling for more then a couple games the best players will be on the ice, or at least should be and have been in the past.

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the fact is hes still been there for 4 years now and hes ready to play in the nhl so we can see what kind of future he can have .... i dont think he will crack the lineup but what if jarnkrok makes the team next season ?? nyquist tatar and andersson are all out of waiver options next year are we suppose to add in jarnkrok nyquist tatar and andersson all next year???

Unfortunetly i think tatar and/or nyquist will be traded by the deadline so we wont ever have to deal with that problem

i do hope holland comes to his senses in this case and buys out samuelsson next year and lets guys like bertuzzi miller walk ... the kids need to play

Holland would essentially be signing his own pink slip doing that. He made the moves to get these guys.

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Something tells me that you are hot for Nyquist, perhaps a bit too much so. It's like, you think he is our future, even though he is relatively unproven at the NHL level. Can't quite put my finger on what gives me that impression. ;)

Samuelsson, Miller, and Bertuzzi have all proven themselves. All three are tougher than Nyquist. It's not like we have a lack of small skilled forwards on the team.

bertuzzi isnt nearly as tough as his size would indicate , ever since the moore incident hes never been the same player and he like samuelsson are injury prone and getting close to 40 ... as for miller i like him but he will never be more than a 4th liner ... we got andersson whos 24 yrs old 6'2 200+ pds who i think will be better and has been showing some offense in grand rapids but we'll never know because he never gets a fair shot ... although he is up now but it wont be for long

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If you get rid of all the old guys who do you call up in case of injuries? Depth is importmant and having young guys on two way deals insures that you won't be dressing crap players when it matters. Much like helm played mor playoff games then regular season games, when playoffs come, or the wings are struggling for more then a couple games the best players will be on the ice, or at least should be and have been in the past.

well you could leave one of tatar or andersson down for the rest of this year incase and we also have sheahan ....we also have alot of bottom forwards i doubt we would be able to get rid of them all anyways .....

franzen zetterberg brunner

filppula datsyuk nyquist

tatar helm(when he returns) cleary

thats what the top 3 lines i personally wish looked like and for the 4th line it would be abdelkader and tootoo and then id keep half of ...

bertuzzi samuelsson miller emmerton mursak eaves

Holland would essentially be signing his own pink slip doing that. He made the moves to get these guys.

a great gm is also someone who recognizes he made a mistake ... no one will ever convince me bringing samuelsson back was a good move .... never liked carlo coliacovo either (seen him in toronto) i realizes hes been hurt but i think we'll regret that one

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Franzen over Hossa is probably one that Holland would like back. Bringing Sammy back and Coliacovo in does not make any sense to me. Coliacovo is made of glass and is not that great of a D- man to take the chance on. I think he was brought in because Holland shot for the moon on Suter and when he missed there was nobody else left. Sammy on the other hand must be a golfing buddy of Kennys because I can't see any other reason to bring him back.

Letting Stevie go to TB was a huge mistake. Holland has done nothing since Yzerman left anyways.

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Franzen over Hossa is probably one that Holland would like back. Bringing Sammy back and Coliacovo in does not make any sense to me. Coliacovo is made of glass and is not that great of a D- man to take the chance on. I think he was brought in because Holland shot for the moon on Suter and when he missed there was nobody else left. Sammy on the other hand must be a golfing buddy of Kennys because I can't see any other reason to bring him back.

Letting Stevie go to TB was a huge mistake. Holland has done nothing since Yzerman left anyways.

If we don't see a reason, it must not exist. It can't be that there are things we just don't know.

That's not possible.

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Franzen over Hossa is probably one that Holland would like back. Bringing Sammy back and Coliacovo in does not make any sense to me. Coliacovo is made of glass and is not that great of a D- man to take the chance on. I think he was brought in because Holland shot for the moon on Suter and when he missed there was nobody else left. Sammy on the other hand must be a golfing buddy of Kennys because I can't see any other reason to bring him back.

Letting Stevie go to TB was a huge mistake. Holland has done nothing since Yzerman left anyways.

Sammy and Coliacovo definitely felt like patchwork moves at best after the Suter/Parise madness.

Some of them have certainly worked out but Holland's penchant for bringing back former wings is almost pathological. I don't know if it's a lack of imagination or he's just overly fond of former Wings.

I mean, Jason Williams. Really?

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If we don't see a reason, it must not exist. It can't be that there are things we just don't know.

That's not possible.

What is there to know? Holland signed an aging veteran for multiple years when the team already had a glut at forward. What is Samuelsson's role when he comes back? He's not fit for the bottom six and he's a plug at best with Datsyuk and Filppula, just like Bertuzzi and Cleary are playing there. I liked or was neutral on the guys Holland brought in over the summer, but the Samuelsson move is puzzling and IMO pointless still.

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What is there to know? Holland signed an aging veteran for multiple years when the team already had a glut at forward. What is Samuelsson's role when he comes back? He's not fit for the bottom six and he's a plug at best with Datsyuk and Filppula, just like Bertuzzi and Cleary are playing there. I liked or was neutral on the guys Holland brought in over the summer, but the Samuelsson move is puzzling and IMO pointless still.

What's there to know? Exactly. We wouldn't know everything, we don't see everything Holland sees and we sure as hell don't take everything into account when we overreact to something our entitled asses don't agree with. All we see is HAHA LOGO KILLER and we love that, so we lean towards it. We don't bother to think about the fact that we just lost Jiri Hudler and Brunner wasn't a sure thing at all. Not to mention Sammy doesn't take bad penalties, he's pretty disciplined. He also can put up 40-50 points, work the PP, and has experience. He's proven himself, on a team where we were about to bring up a lot of kids who haven't yet. Better to sign Sammy and let them work their way up gradually. What if they didn't work out? There's also the intangibles that we pretend to care about in other scenarios but really don't when it denies us our new toy-how he works with the team, how good it makes the team look that we'll take a guy back, etc.

If we traded for him, that'd be one thing. But we signed him. All it did was deny one AHL kid a spot for the majority of one season, maybe two. What it got us was a proven smart, good player with experience who can score well and plays better in the playoffs. And it's 3 mil, it's not a lot. Look at some other players making that much (I don't mean young underpaid guys due a raise). Joel Ward. Nah no thanks. Chris Kelly, Tomas Kopecky, and a few others. Then you have some decent guys like Dustin Brown, Radim Vrbata, Weiss, Jokinen, etc. You can debate who is better but none of them are leaps above Sammy. We just can't admit that part of the hate came from his undeserved status as whipping boy. And we don't like ex players coming back who we didn't like before, that's boring. You combine those two things and Sammy didn't stand a chance. But it's not a bad deal.

Edited by shoobiedoobin
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Something tells me that you are hot for Nyquist, perhaps a bit too much so. It's like, you think he is our future, even though he is relatively unproven at the NHL level. Can't quite put my finger on what gives me that impression. ;)

Samuelsson, Miller, and Bertuzzi have all proven themselves. All three are tougher than Nyquist. It's not like we have a lack of small skilled forwards on the team.

I still hold the opinion that if there would have been a full season with a full training camp & pre-season with it, the team would look significantly different. Instead of ragging on Kenny, I think he deserves credit for bringing in some known-qualities veteran players to in essense enhance the organizational depth they'll need to make it through the season.

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