Babcock: Is he the right guy going forward?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Mike Babcock is more "right" for the job than he was when he initially got it. He's always preached hard work and grinding it out. With that style of play and the success it gave him, it allowed him to ascend the ranks of coaching as quickly as he did. This current Red Wings team is less talented and far more gritty than it's been in over 15 years. Babs' style is a perfect fit.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I like Babs, think he's a great coach, develops young guys well, but has no clue about goalie schedules and in game changes. Starting Howard again Friday? What happened to him needing a break? Mrazek won a game in one of the hardest barns in the league, and hasn't gotten a sniff since. It's just stupid. As far as his in game adjustments, he fails to make line changes when guys are really struggling, until it's too late.

No better guy out there for the Wings, but some of the things he does drive me wacko.

[blgillett 48]

I don't think there is anyone better are problem is we need to replace our Defense and pick up at least one forward

[joshy207 156]

I don't think you'd find anyone better right now than Babcock. Sometimes I've wondered whether his message is wearing thin with the players, but then the team will snap back and play better hockey. There are some things that frustrate me though, like hearing him say the same things over and over, like "we have to start better", "we have to play a full 60 minutes", "we have to be better prepared", "we have to work harder"... well, what happens when the bad habits continue game in and game out? NOTHING. Same guys, same roles. If Franzen is lazy, scratch him. Or bench him, make him dress and sit on the end of the bench all game. If Cleary is hurt (last year), sit him out for 2-3 weeks and let him heal, he couldn't have gotten any worse. If Howard has played all but 4 periods this season and will probably wear down like he kinda did after playing just about every game late last year, rest him. Mrazek is here for a reason, to play. If he's not going to play, tell Holland to bring McCollum or Pearce up. Maybe ream a guy publicly, even though it's not his style. Something's gotta give in those situations. That said, the team's record and performance to date are better than I had expected. Not that I thought they'd be 0-13 or anything like that, but they do show flashes of being a pretty good team.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I don't think you'd find anyone better right now than Babcock. Sometimes I've wondered whether his message is wearing thin with the players, but then the team will snap back and play better hockey. There are some things that frustrate me though, like hearing him say the same things over and over, like "we have to start better", "we have to play a full 60 minutes", "we have to be better prepared", "we have to work harder"... well, what happens when the bad habits continue game in and game out? NOTHING. Same guys, same roles. If Franzen is lazy, scratch him. Or bench him, make him dress and sit on the end of the bench all game. If Cleary is hurt (last year), sit him out for 2-3 weeks and let him heal, he couldn't have gotten any worse. If Howard has played all but 4 periods this season and will probably wear down like he kinda did after playing just about every game late last year, rest him. Mrazek is here for a reason, to play. If he's not going to play, tell Holland to bring McCollum or Pearce up. Maybe ream a guy publicly, even though it's not his style. Something's gotta give in those situations. That said, the team's record and performance to date are better than I had expected. Not that I thought they'd be 0-13 or anything like that, but they do show flashes of being a pretty good team.

This does a pretty good job of summing up my thoughts. Babcock is a great coach, one of the best in the league over the past decade and will likely go down as one of the winningest coaches in NHL history before he is done. You couldn't find anyone better than him of coaches available (or unavailable really). BUT.... doesn't punish slackers, is quick to change lines but not much else, and has never been great at handling goaltenders (Howard and whoever, Hasek and Osgood, etc.)

[e_prime 1,936]

Babs is my guy, but did you guys note that Tortorella benched Brad Richards last night?

I mean, there is a world of difference between sitting Danny Cleary for a game and sitting Brad "Freakin'" Richards.

...but Torts is a coach that can do that and it means something, it proves a point, especially to a player like Richards.

I wish that Babs would do that. It would have the same meaning and effect and maybe all of this "Player X could be better" would actually have some weight and actual repercussions.

"Hey Clears, I know you can be so much better... I didn't see that from you in the last 10 games. Take a night off. Show me in practice what I'm looking for and I'll work you back in. Until then, ride the pine Danny-Boy."

(I'm sure Babs could say it more appropriately and more convincingly, but it's not THAT HARD, right?)

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Babs is my guy, but did you guys note that Tortorella benched Brad Richards last night?

I mean, there is a world of difference between sitting Danny Cleary for a game and sitting Brad "Freakin'" Richards.

...but Torts is a coach that can do that and it means something, it proves a point, especially to a player like Richards.

I wish that Babs would do that. It would have the same meaning and effect and maybe all of this "Player X could be better" would actually have some weight and actual repercussions.

"Hey Clears, I know you can be so much better... I didn't see that from you in the last 10 games. Take a night off. Show me in practice what I'm looking for and I'll work you back in. Until then, ride the pine Danny-Boy."

(I'm sure Babs could say it more appropriately and more convincingly, but it's not THAT HARD, right?)

I wish Babcock would sit the upper line players more when they're not performing, though I think Tortorella is too far the other direction. The guy's an angry nutjob. It's one thing to do it to motivate guys and give them a wakeup call. But he always seems furious at someone on the roster.

In terms of Babcock being the right guy for the job? absolutely. I can think of a few others maybe I wouldn't mind but I can't think of any I'd rather have coaching this patchwork team right now.

[Guest Crymson]

Tortorella is a guy whose head seems like it is always on the verge of nuclear explosion. There's being a taskmaster, and then there's being a guy whose players probably can't stand him.

[e_prime 1,936]

Tortorella is a guy whose head seems like it is always on the verge of nuclear explosion. There's being a taskmaster, and then there's being a guy whose players probably can't stand him.

Agreed. ...but Richards knew what he was getting himself into when he signed with the Rags. So, that says something about Torts and his coaching style with players.

Players don't like to get benched. Some of them know why they've been benched, and some act like getting benched wasn't their fault or was the freaking end of their careers... some say, "Hey, I've been playing like crap, coach benched me, I need to get back out there and do my job." I know this hard to do when you have a team that's as injured as we are, but I think it might wake certain players up.

[Pucks 66]

Why would he construct a line of Nyquist Filppula Abdelkader? Two perimeter playmakers/passers and a guy who belongs on the 4th line, rediculous.

[Guest The Axe]

Why would he construct a line of Nyquist Filppula Abdelkader? Two perimeter playmakers/passers and a guy who belongs on the 4th line, rediculous.

Babs benches the 3rd and 4th lines when things go wrong and we get down. Im not a fan of this. Im mor a fan of sitting the grinder (Abdelkader) on the 3rd line and fighter (Tootoo) on the 4th line and double shifting your 2 best guys (Zetts, Dats). Noone is saying "why is Z playing so much?" right now. People are wondering why Cleary is playing so much.

[clutchngrab 12]

Wondering if any of you are thinking the emperor might not actually have any clothes. Let the flaming begin!

[FlashyG 1,799]

I think Babcock is one of, if not the best coach in the league but no matter how good you are, after a while your messages no longer hit home with your players. Bowman never stayed in one place too long for this reason, Hitchcock is another that has tremendous success in the short term with teams but seems to lose the room after a season or 2.

Babcock has been in charge for a long time, with very little turnover on the roster. So its not that surprising when rumors come out that more and more players don't like him or his style of coaching/playing the game. He clearly has a different style of hockey in mind than our management does and that style doesn't fit well with our best players either. It's led to us playing a hybrid style between puck possession and north south hockey that works some nights and doesn't on others.

I think he has this season and next max coaching the Wings, its unlikely he'll be signed to a new deal and I don't see him being in charge as a lame-duck coach in the final year of his contract, so barring a Stanley Cup run, I think we're in the tail end of Babcock's tenure in Detroit.

[Guest Johnz96]

He is not the right guy.

He was fortunate to have 3 of the 10 best hockey players in the world on his team. The Ducks made it to the SCF because of Giguere and his over-sized equipment.

Everyone thought Marc Crawford was a good coach until he lost all his great players

[Nev 1,085]

He is not the right guy.

He was fortunate to have 3 of the 10 best hockey players in the world on his team. The Ducks made it to the SCF because of Giguere and his over-sized equipment.

Everyone thought Marc Crawford was a good coach until he lost all his great players

By your line of reasoning Bowman was only a great coach because of all his great players - Montreal were only good because they had Gainey and Lafleur and Robinson and Shutt and Lemaire and Dryden. And the Pens, they only won the cup with Bowman because they had Lemiuex and Jagr and Francis and Coffey. And Bowman's Wings? Well, they had Lidstrom and Yzerman and Shanahan and Murphy and Larionov and Konstantinov and Fetisov, right?

I agree with the poster above - I wonder if he's simply been here too long, and he and Holland aren't on the same page anymore.

[Guest Johnz96]

By your line of reasoning Bowman was only a great coach because of all his great players - Montreal were only good because they had Gainey and Lafleur and Robinson and Shutt and Lemaire and Dryden. And the Pens, they only won the cup with Bowman because they had Lemiuex and Jagr and Francis and Coffey. And Bowman's Wings? Well, they had Lidstrom and Yzerman and Shanahan and Murphy and Larionov and Konstantinov and Fetisov, right?

I agree with the poster above - I wonder if he's simply been here too long, and he and Holland aren't on the same page anymore.

I never said that about Bowman.

I have always questioned Babcock's allotment of ice-time.

He lost us the Cup in 09 by giving an obviously ineffective(he was injured, I thought perhaps, he was being a double agent for the Pens) Hossa first-line ice-time, while many better healthy choices were squandered struggling to see the ice.

In blowouts, he continues to play Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom late in games, risking injury for nothing and not taking advantage of being able to give guys that normally don't get much ice-time,more t7me for evaluation and experience for them.

Playing Abby and Cleary on the top 2 lines for so long when they are obviously ineffective is assinnine (intentional misspelling).

Keeping one of your team's best performer's on the bottom 6 and demoting him to the minors is idiotic.

Constantly Implying that the team isn't as good as it used to be is negative for morale and is just wrong from a coach

[clutchngrab 12]

I'm curious what kind of coaching is required to coach team Canada to a Gold Medal. I would say very little. He's also lost 2 game 7s in the SC finals.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I'm curious what kind of coaching is required to coach team Canada to a Gold Medal. I would say very little. He's also lost 2 game 7s in the SC finals.

Just to be clear, you're holding it against Babcock that now in his 10th year as an NHL coach, he's made it to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals twice and won it once?

Most coaches don't have that "blemish" on their resume because they don't make it to the Cup Finals three times.

[Vladifan 680]

Until there's a better coach available , isn't this subject academic? There IS no one better out there.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Until there's a better coach available , isn't this subject academic? There IS no one better out there.

That's definitely the problem is that there isn't a better coach out there. Ours is just being stubborn as all hell. I think the fact that he left the square wheel line together so long just has a lot of people very pissed. And if Dats leaves after next season, it will be remembered for a long time and a lot of people may blame Babcock for not giving Datsyuk the tools he deserved to be the best player he could be.

[Vladifan 680]

That's definitely the problem is that there isn't a better coach out there. Ours is just being stubborn as all hell. I think the fact that he left the square wheel line together so long just has a lot of people very pissed. And if Dats leaves after next season, it will be remembered for a long time and a lot of people may blame Babcock for not giving Datsyuk the tools he deserved to be the best player he could be.

Agreed. I don't know why he won't try different combinations. And in my heart I knew he wouldn't play Nyquist with Datsyuk tonight, but I wanted to be wrong. If Datsyuk goes, Babcock will go. Hope he realizes that before it's too late for both of them.

[pondrocket 35]

This thread is rediculous! Babcock is what is keeping this team as competative as they are. THIS is what happens when Big E is one of your top pairing D Men & Big E & Quincy together consume 7 million. Is Holland the right GM going forward? That is the question Devilano & Mr. I better be asking. He had years to plan for this & he DID NOT! This is what happens when your forwarwards have to play D & don't have the benefit of of being committed forwards.

[Red Crazy 201]

This thread is rediculous! Babcock is what is keeping this team as competative as they are. THIS is what happens when Big E is one of your top pairing D Men & Big E & Quincy together consume 7 million. Is Holland the right GM going forward? That is the question Devilano & Mr. I better be asking. He had years to plan for this & he DID NOT! This is what happens when your forwarwards have to play D & don't have the benefit of of being committed forwards.

Agreed 110%. I don't agree with what Babs puts out on the ice but Holland is to blame for the s***ty contracts and lack of talent. Holland was betting on the big fish last year Parise and Suter and missed all the horses that would have worked well. Then he panicked and signed scrubs for not one but two freeking years.

[wings_fanatic 677]

Agreed 110%. I don't agree with what Babs puts out on the ice but Holland is to blame for the s***ty contracts and lack of talent. Holland was betting on the big fish last year Parise and Suter and missed all the horses that would have worked well. Then he panicked and signed scrubs for not one but two freeking years.

You spelled freaking wrong

And honestly, right now I would say it is more of Babcock's fault than Kenny's. Kenny did all he could... if Parise did not want to sign here, he did not want to sign here. Fact is, tonight we would have had a much better chance to win the game had ABDELKATOR not been on Pavel's wing AGAIN!!! Babcock uses the same lines that do not produce. If that does not change, he needs to go.

[FlashyG 1,799]

Agreed 110%. I don't agree with what Babs puts out on the ice but Holland is to blame for the s***ty contracts and lack of talent. Holland was betting on the big fish last year Parise and Suter and missed all the horses that would have worked well. Then he panicked and signed scrubs for not one but two freeking years.

There is a major difference of opinion between management and the coaching staff about what style of hockey the team should be playing. Holland prefers skilled players that are better in a puck possession style of hockey while Babcock prefers grinders who dump and chase and clear their zone off the glass and out.

The problem is that our best players (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Flip, Kronwall and Brunner) are all players the thrive in Holland's style but not in Babcocks. Then in our prospect pool you have a large contingent of Holland style players as well (Tatar, Nyquist, Sproul, Jurco, Jarnkrok, Frk and Pulkinnen)

For a while we played a hybrid style where the bottom 6 played Babcock's style and the top 6 were free to play their style but lately it seems that Babcock even has them playing defence first off the glass and out hockey.

Its not only painfully boring to watch but it hasn't been effective either. Its time he moved on to a roster that is more suited to his style, and its time the Wings brought in a coach whose style matches up with the talent the Wings have.

You can bet their first move would be putting Cleary and Abdelkader on the 4th line or in the pressbox while increasing the ice-time of skilled rookies like Tatar and Nyquist.