• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
clutchngrab

Babcock: Is he the right guy going forward?

Rate this topic

121 posts in this topic

what "security"? the guy has a signed contract through end of 2014-2015 season. you honestly think he puts his own agenda over that of winning hockey games? huh? this team has been totally gutted over the last few years and we are still right there in the hunt and competitive, what more do you want from a coach?

Nev and kipwinger like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't like how he keeps stating that we have to work a lot harder to win now, implying that they are not as good and shouldn't they have always worked as hard as they can?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't like how he keeps stating that we have to work a lot harder to win now, implying that they are not as good and shouldn't they have always worked as hard as they can?

Normally he is spot on when he says it. We need to set the pace more. Last night we came out swinging and fore-checked like I haven't seen us fore-check in awhile. It worked for us, and then we started to slow down. The second period we didn't work hard enough. We weren't winning battles, we weren't pushing the pace, we couldn't even break it out of the zone. That's what he means by we need to work a lot harder. We need to win those battles, we need to get the transition going as fast as possible. The third period we set the pace again but couldn't get a shot on net until nearly 10 minutes into the period, if that. As much as I hate him saying, "we need to compete more, we need to work harder." it's honestly true. He needs more drive out of these players, more heart. You biggest offense is your defense, it really relies on crisp passes out of the zone, and clean exits. If your defense isn't throwing a solid pass, you won't catch it smoothly and it'll break the momentum and speed through the neutral zone, which just drastically destroys your fore-check. It allows teams to re-establish their defensive positioning, and they can get man on man until we gain full possession, then they're going to run their system. That was one of our main problems at the beginning of the season, we had no breakout. Against a team like St.Louis, which relies more on work ethic than skill, you need to compete harder, you need to out-work them, otherwise they'll have a field day with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't like how he keeps stating that we have to work a lot harder to win now, implying that they are not as good and shouldn't they have always worked as hard as they can?

Babcock is a coach and as a coach you can't be satisfied your job is to push the best 1 % of worldwide hockeyplayers to be even better every game. I think it was Burke who once said, how most of the feedback a coach is giving to his players will be negative.

Also Babcock is right, this team didn't have to work as hard a few seasons ago, because their skillset was that outstanding now other teams are equally or even higher skilled, so in order to gain wins and overcome that disparity the Red Wings have to work even harder to be succesful. I really have no problem with him stating the obvious.

If the Sharks are firing MacLellan we should bring him back as an assistant coach, they guy knows how to run a powerplay or penalty kill!

Hardly anyone would see this roster as a stanley cup one and yet Babcock managed to implement a system of working hard and getting the results I for one applaud him and hopefully this team can keep it up and make the playoffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Babcock is a coach and as a coach you can't be satisfied your job is to push the best 1 % of worldwide hockeyplayers to be even better every game. I think it was Burke who once said, how most of the feedback a coach is giving to his players will be negative.

Also Babcock is right, this team didn't have to work as hard a few seasons ago, because their skillset was that outstanding now other teams are equally or even higher skilled, so in order to gain wins and overcome that disparity the Red Wings have to work even harder to be succesful. I really have no problem with him stating the obvious.

If the Sharks are firing MacLellan we should bring him back as an assistant coach, they guy knows how to run a powerplay or penalty kill!

Hardly anyone would see this roster as a stanley cup one and yet Babcock managed to implement a system of working hard and getting the results I for one applaud him and hopefully this team can keep it up and make the playoffs.

There's rumors about that?! Oh my god! Unfortunately, he doesn't deserve to be an assistant coach, he certainly deserves to be a head. I just can't see him ever being an assistant after being the head for SJ, especially to come take his old job. He did some good things there, knows how to get into the players heads and motivate them, and certainly destroyed us while doing so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being honest I think the vast vast majority of Wings fans online are too emotional and prone to overreacting after losses to talk about this rationally. I never see these topics after a win.

evilzyme and Nev like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fire Babs. Fire Kenny. Trade Hank and Dats while they are worth something. Blow it up. It's over. Might as well just relocate the team while we're at it too, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's rumors about that?! Oh my god! Unfortunately, he doesn't deserve to be an assistant coach, he certainly deserves to be a head. I just can't see him ever being an assistant after being the head for SJ, especially to come take his old job. He did some good things there, knows how to get into the players heads and motivate them, and certainly destroyed us while doing so.

Maybe he doesn't want to be a head coach again after getting fired? I've read somewhere think it was on tsn.ca that both the coach and GM are on a hot seat this season and you can bet Wilson would fire him in order to keep his job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't want Babcock, who do you want coaching this team?

I bet he wants Charles Wong.

He is the best GM in the NHL, and I bet he would be a great head coach. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've actually been very critical of Bab's the past few years. Last year reaching the apex because I thought we had the roster to make it to at least the WCF finals. However, I think he's doing an outstanding job this year. As many posters have stated, our roster has gone through a significant overhaul bringing in a lot of young players who show a lot of promise, but don't have the NHL ice time to have proven they can play consistently at this level. Before the season started many within the organization and outside of the organization had serious concerns about the D aspect of our game. For good reason. The first week of play really supported these concerns as valid...it was pretty scary. But there is no doubt we defensively look much, much better. In fact, at times I've thought our D has played very well. Not great, not elite, but solid. How you get the puzzle of B Smith, Lashoff, Carlo injured, Huskins, and a struggling Quincy to work is (IMO) attributed to a great positional coaching and head coaching. So at this point of the season, I'm giving Babs and staff a HUGE thumbs up.

Also as a logical answer to the topic of this thread....who would you replace him with that is a better coach? I start to think of coaches that have been good to great, not many that are consistently great, and I'm hard pressed to find someone that would surpass Babs in that regard (Stanley Cup, Olympics, etc..). Finding a coach that you believe would be AS GOOD as Babs is really just getting a coach because you believe he's lost the players and there needs to be a symbolic change. Sure a new coach can rah-rah the team at first, but often the honeymoon on this is short, and then it all reverts back to how good is an actual coach (system, strategy, personnel manager, leader, preparation, motivation, etc...) . Still hard pressed to think of a BETTER coach than Babs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets get rid of the best coach in the league who has done nothing but win everywhere he's coached. Seriously, he's doing a great job and we are lucky to have him. He's changing his strategy to get the most out of what he has to work with, which is the right thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Babs really only has made one big error, and that is the assistant coaching selection. He repeatedly has not been getting it right...and things like special teams show this. I believe that this will make for his 3rd bad coaching choice in a row?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:rolleyes: here we go again...

Yes Babcock is the right guy for this group. If we replaced Holland and Babcock, the rest of the League would think we are insane! There would be a bidding war for their services, and they could name their price.

Plain and simple with this team (if people are disappointed and stressing out) the bottom 6 forwards need to score more. All have the ability to light the lamp 10 times in a 82 game schedule. With Helm, Bert, and Smith injured and the 3rd and 4th lines not producing, we're still 7-4-2. No one is going to catch Chicago, so we'll finish 4th, 5th, or 6th in the Conference. With everyone healthy and reaching their potential, there's no question we're one of the front runners to win the Cup.

To respond to the Holland comments, I don't know how many times I need to say this! The way to build is through the draft. Free Agents and trades are way overpriced, and with a cap, can handcuff a franchise for 10 years. Let the Minnesota's kill their chances for the next 13 years paying only 2 guys.

Edited by Barrie
Nev likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't necessarily want a different coach, just one that can react to the adversity you point out in a game time situation. We've lost a tone of games over the last few years around either PP/PK, shift changes or ice time management.

Every team sport is the same. You have your x's and o's and then you have the decisions you make during the game that have nothing to do with what you planned. Some (few) coaches are good at reading the game and adjusting and some are not. Babcock, in my opinion, is not. To some extent this how we blew a 3-1 lead in the 2009 finals.

The Wings never had a 3-1 lead in the 2009 finals, and the greatest contributing factor to the team's defeat in that series was the absurd series of injuries. Of all the players on the top two forward lines and the top defense pairing, Zetterberg was the single one who wasn't injured.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Babcock is the right guy going forward. Yes I too have been not happy at some of his lines but for the most part he has done a good job this year with what Holland and injuries have gave him. Holland on the other hand I am not so sure anymore. What's he been doing lately?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a huge sign of a good coach is how you deal with roster turnover and injuries. We haven't played two games in a row this year with the same lineup I don't think. Decimated by injuries and the loss of the best d man of the last 20 years. We are 7-4-2. I have never lost faith in Babs and I sure won't start now.

Nev likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't necessarily want a different coach, just one that can react to the adversity you point out in a game time situation. We've lost a tone of games over the last few years around either PP/PK, shift changes or ice time management.

Every team sport is the same. You have your x's and o's and then you have the decisions you make during the game that have nothing to do with what you planned. Some (few) coaches are good at reading the game and adjusting and some are not. Babcock, in my opinion, is not. To some extent this how we blew a 3-1 lead in the 2009 finals.

We blew a 3-2 lead in the 2009 finals because we were lucky to be 3-2 up in the first place instead of 4-0 down, and because we were absolutely riddled with injuries.

Our PK has sucked ever since 2009 when Babs stopped using the big guns except on 5-on-3s. Why? Because his superstar forward broke his foot blocking a shot on the PK and we went on to lose in the finals without him......That and his all-universe defenceman started slowing down. But it is a fair criticism that Babcock bears some of the responsibility for not doing a better job with what he's got left.

Ice time allocation - lots of criticism on here for him "trying to get guys going", but he's always done that in the regular season. He was right to persevere with Hudler, eventually he came good again. He's done it with Z in the past when he was stone cold, splitting up Datsyuk's hot line for him and vice versa. Cleary was bad last season, but come the playoffs he was one of the few Wings to impress, and Babs has always been big on his vets in the playoffs, every year he has commented on how Draper or Maltby or whoever has stepped up their play in the postseason. Clearly he thinks Cleary needs to play himself into fitness, form and confidence.

Lastly, its very clear he and Holland have not always seen eye to eye. He publicly disagreed with the decision to send the rookie Leino and Abdelkader back to the minors. He has repeatedly moaned about a lack of sandpaper whenever we haven't had a Drake or a May or a Tootoo. He was critical of the strength and depth of the roster after the Nashville series. This is not the team Babs would ideally like to ice, but he can only play with the hand he has been dealt.

Edit: Lastly, to repeat, to be 5th in the west after all the personnel losses, and all the injuries, I'm estatic. I didn't expect to be doing this well with a full, healthy roster.

Edited by Nev

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO Babs has been doing a great job this year. I have been critical of him in the past, and I have been nervous about the ability of the team to play a puck possession game in the absence of Lids. Sure special teams needs a bit of work and we need a stronger defense corps, but as of late the team overall has been performing well. I don't know if the Wings can be considered an elite team any more in terms of raw talent and how they look on paper. While dealing with some key injuries in the lower ranks and a major shakeup on the blue line, they've done a relatively good job of integrating new guys into the big club and old guys into new roles. After laying a few eggs early on the guys overall look like a cohesive unit with systems in place. That doesn't mean they will outskate everyone every night, and it doesn't mean that Quincey will be Norris calibre because he can play within the system. With new faces, fatigue from the condensed schedule, Kenny managing personnel, and real on-ice leadership coming from a core of veterans, the task of motivating is far from Babs' sole responsibility and the task of performing is subject to ability. Only if the D really fail in the sense where they require more out of the forwards to drop down and break the puck out (at the expense of transition speed) will it require a change in plan. That would seem to be a bigger failure than we are seeing because we have some great two way forwards who can and do help out. Right now they are dealing with it well given what they have and Helm's return will be a big help. Presumably Kenny is testing the market to help bolster the D and/or using this year to see if the existing personnel pick it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I take the same position with Babs as I do with Leyland. They are both good coaches, they both do a ton of s*** that pisses me off, but there's no point in moving them out if there isn't someone better who's available at the time.

I was all for letting Leyland walk last year when Terry Francona was still available, once he was off the market there was nobody better, so why not stick with Jim. Same with Babs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't even read the argument in here. One of the most ridiculous questions I've ever heard.

I couldn't agree more. Babcock is the best coach in the NHL. We are fortunate to have him. The fact that we have found ways to win the past two years despite our shortcomings shows his value. This thread is ridiculous. Babckock is one of the only bright spots this team has.

And to say he makes bad roster decisions, playing time decisions, and in-game decisions is ridiculous. If you know who the best players are, which position they should play on, and how to coach this team, then go become a professional hockey coach. But your questioning a guy who has won, big, everywhere he has ever coached. Its about the ability of the players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like his line choices. Anyone can see Cleary needs reduced ice time, not a promotion and increased icetime. Abdelkader is a plug and has no business being moved up in the top 6. His only message is work harder? How about work smarter? He's a good coach, but his decision making is suspect.

clutchngrab likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like his line choices. Anyone can see Cleary needs reduced ice time, not a promotion and increased icetime. Abdelkader is a plug and has no business being moved up in the top 6. His only message is work harder? How about work smarter? He's a good coach, but his decision making is suspect.

I liked the idea of putting abby in the top 6 for a game, give him a chance to get going, motivate him a bit and see what he is capable of on a top line, it didn't seem to work, but hey why not give it a shot? Cleary however should not be anywhere near the top 9, let alone top 6.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My biggest problem with Babcock is that he believes that with just the right type of reshuffling/juggling/will power, ANY player can be effective in pretty much ANY role. And once he's got that in his head, he refuses to let observable evidence stand in the way.

Babcock: Johan Franzen can be a top flight winger if he'd just try harder.

Reality: Franzen is a good complimentary scorer as proven by the fact that his best years were when Zetterberg and Hossa were the dominant wingers.

Babcock: Abdelkader can be a third line scoring winger if given some time and consistent line mates.

Reality: He'll never ever produce points at the NHL level, and is best in a banging and crashing role. Both Eaves and Miller are better scorers at the NHL level while still maintaining defensive responsibility.

Babcock: Filppula can be an effective winger in the NHL if he would only shoot more.

Reality: Filppula still won't shoot, even as a winger, and he had a career year last season because he was paired with a shooting center. Few of Flip's goals last season were the result of his shooting more, most were the result of rebounds, breakaways, or odd man rushes.

But still, I wouldn't fire Babs. He just irritates the hell out of me sometimes.

clutchngrab likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0