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clutchngrab

Babcock: Is he the right guy going forward?

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I don't think you can really pin a lack of depth or high-level talent on Babcock. He's trying to win with what he has....and it's not like he has Lidstrom/Hossa/Rafalski/Stuart/Hudler/Maltby/Holmstrom and Draper to roll out there anymore.

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I don't think you can really pin a lack of depth or high-level talent on Babcock. He's trying to win with what he has....and it's not like he has Lidstrom/Hossa/Rafalski/Stuart/Hudler/Maltby/Holmstrom and Draper to roll out there anymore.

If Babcock was giving ice-time based on players actual play this season and we were continuing to lose I'd agree, but the fact is that he will not give ice-time to rookies that don't play his style of hockey.

Tatar was playing great out there and was limited to less than 10 minutes a night, Nyquist was brought up for tonights game to play in the top 6 accoriding to Holland and he wasn't given a single shift there by Babs, yet Abdelkader has played like 20 games up there despite having only 2 pts all season.

Babcock is a great coach but he's a terrible fit for the Wings best players and its time to move on. Unless you'd rather keep him and blow up the roster for guys better suited to his style of play.

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I miss the Babcock that got pissed at Holland for not going after Brent Burns back before he was traded to the Sharks. Where's that guy? That Babcock would have a few things to say about our currently unaddressed needs.

Honestly, I'm wondering if he's gotten a little complacent because he basically could do little to no wrong in regard to coaching with the lineup he's had over the years. Not to mention the great assistant coaches he used to have by his side.

I have faith in him, but the rest of this season and beginning of next season should really be make or break time for him and I really hope he steps up o the plate. This year has been kind of funky because of the lockout, not that I am blaming everything on that, but we have several new faces in the roster and behind the bench and there wasn't really a lot of time to figure out which players molded. I think that's why Babs has been messing with the lines (also because of injuries, obviously).

My big problem with him is he preaches "earn your place on this team", yet he rewards underachievers top-six play time. Also, he apparently shares Hollands beliefs with younger players in not allowing them to play bigger roles. Tatar is a perfect example. He brings it every time he's on the ice. He could and should be playing on our second line. Cleary should be in the bottom six, Tatar should be working with Pav, simple as that.

I honestly don't know what he is thinking with the Abs-Pav-Cleary line. It's very obviously not productive and it is very obviously frustrating Pav.

EDIT: I have not seen the past three games, I didn't realize Franzen is on Pavs line now...

Edited by Wingsfan72

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I never said that about Bowman.

I have always questioned Babcock's allotment of ice-time.

He lost us the Cup in 09 by giving an obviously ineffective(he was injured, I thought perhaps, he was being a double agent for the Pens) Hossa first-line ice-time, while many better healthy choices were squandered struggling to see the ice.

1) But surely the same line of reasoning applies to Bowman as to Babcock? And Mike agress with you btw - two of his favourite mantras for winning in the playoffs are "your best players gotta be your best players" and "you gotta be healthy"

2) Everyone was injured in 2009. Dats, Hossa, Cleary, Rafalski, Lidstrom, Homer...

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Babs benches the 3rd and 4th lines when things go wrong and we get down. Im not a fan of this. Im mor a fan of sitting the grinder (Abdelkader) on the 3rd line and fighter (Tootoo) on the 4th line and double shifting your 2 best guys (Zetts, Dats). Noone is saying "why is Z playing so much?" right now. People are wondering why Cleary is playing so much.

i'm certainly wondering why Z has not scored in 18 games, he doesn't have Datsyuk's excuse of underskilled linemates.

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Until there's a better coach available , isn't this subject academic? There IS no one better out there.

I always thought Lindy Ruff was a pretty decent coach. He did a lot with some marginally talented teams through his career unlike a certain coach who has pretty much been in auto-pilot for during his red wing tenure due to the talent sitting in front of him.

As I said early on in this thread, Babcock has pathetic game-time coaching skills. He doesn't adjust lines or playing time in accordance with the evidence on the ice on any given night. Not to mention the evidence over the course of 10 games. That's fine when you are not scrambling for a playoff spot and can count on the skill and talent over the course of the season to equal out - but guess what? We ain't in Kansas anymore. Time to do some real coaching and he's not up to it.

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One guy who I always liked was Ted Nolan of the Islanders. Always seemed to have his terribly under manned teams working hard. Hell he played with the Red WIngs we and we all know how loyal they are

Edited by cnot19

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I want to think that when Helm comes back that'll add some stability and chemistry to the team.

One thing I have noticed that's good. Before the mix-up in lines of the last few games, it seemed the first two lines were skating in molasses, while the 3rd and 4th lines pretty much made the other lines look like they were standing still. Not so much in the last game or two. You can at least see some semblance of speed on all four lines now. There's always hope.

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Blashill's doing an amazing job with the Griffins. I know he took some blame for the PP here in Detroit last year but it's evident that he's a good coach and the PP is even worse this year under Renney.

I think if The Wings ever truly decide to go with a youth movement, tBlashill will be the guy behind the bench.

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From an article in the Calgary Herald: "Well, it's amazing to me how you can play so well, look so organized, and look so talented. It's almost like you get playing so good that you get loose. It's crazy. We just gave it to them. It had nothing to do with them...To me, that was a disturbing loss because all we had to do was continue to do things right and you win the game." - Mike Babcock.

Sure Mike, we were so good that we lost. Gotcha.

Edited by kipwinger

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I'm not naive enough to think that I know better than Babs. The man can coach...if I don't agree with his decisions it is far more likely that I'M wrong...not the coach sitting in the triple gold club.

Serratoni likes this

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I'm sorry but this is so typical. Team starts under-performing and now all of the sudden the coach needs to take a hike. This is classic fandom in the works. Babs makes one confusing move (Abby-Dats-Cleary) that the fans don't like and all of the sudden he needs to be replaced? Keep your heads on.

For all we know Abby walked into his office and said: "I can be that next PWF if u'd let me", and Mike said: "Ok, this is a gap year, an experimentation year, lets see what you got." Gives him a shot in the top 6 and it didn't workout. Big whoop.

Abby's still young somewhat young for hockey, doesn't hurt to experiment with your young guys.

I'm not claiming to be anything special, but I swear half of LGW would be worse than Garth Snow.... but still, it's the only forum I come to

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I'm sorry but this is so typical. Team starts under-performing and now all of the sudden the coach needs to take a hike. This is classic fandom in the works. Babs makes one confusing move (Abby-Dats-Cleary) that the fans don't like and all of the sudden he needs to be replaced? Keep your heads on.

For all we know Abby walked into his office and said: "I can be that next PWF if u'd let me", and Mike said: "Ok, this is a gap year, an experimentation year, lets see what you got." Gives him a shot in the top 6 and it didn't workout. Big whoop.

Abby's still young somewhat young for hockey, doesn't hurt to experiment with your young guys.

I'm not claiming to be anything special, but I swear half of LGW would be worse than Garth Snow.... but still, it's the only forum I come to

You're right of course.

Hell Scotty Bowman wouldn't be more than .500 right now with this group. The coach can only do so much and these are allegedly professionals here.

When this forum accepts the fact that the losses due to FA and retirement mean this team isn't anywhere near talented enough to really be a contender, that will be the day that LGW and threads like this one become more bearable.

Reality check time, this team is mediocre.

Nev likes this

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You're right of course.

Hell Scotty Bowman wouldn't be more than .500 right now with this group. The coach can only do so much and these are allegedly professionals here.

When this forum accepts the fact that the losses due to FA and retirement mean this team isn't anywhere near talented enough to really be a contender, that will be the day that LGW and threads like this one become more bearable.

Reality check time, this team is mediocre.

I'm not saying we're not a contender. I believe that any team who makes the playoffs can win the cup these days.

I'm saying the Wings expect a down year to retool. Playoffs or not. Coaching is irrelevant right now IMO.

In my honest personal opinion, I really like Babs. He's the hardass that doesn't care if you like him or not. He wins. A Detroit guy. Sucks that he has to be the guy to deal with this year. I'm sure he's frustrated. But that's business.

haroldsnepsts likes this

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Hell Scotty Bowman wouldn't be more than .500 right now with this group. The coach can only do so much and these are allegedly professionals here.

Difference was, if Scotty was handed a mediocre team like this one, he'd have the GM's head on a platter. It wouldn't have happened like this.

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From an article in the Calgary Herald: "Well, it's amazing to me how you can play so well, look so organized, and look so talented. It's almost like you get playing so good that you get loose. It's crazy. We just gave it to them. It had nothing to do with them...To me, that was a disturbing loss because all we had to do was continue to do things right and you win the game." - Mike Babcock.

Sure Mike, we were so good that we lost. Gotcha.

I saw the video and he didn't sound like "we were so good we lost" he sounded like "we played really well and then stopped skating in the third." Along with a large amount of frustration. He wasn't happy, and stormed off after his interview there, surely the players heard about it.

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I always thought Lindy Ruff was a pretty decent coach. He did a lot with some marginally talented teams through his career unlike a certain coach who has pretty much been in auto-pilot for during his red wing tenure due to the talent sitting in front of him.

As I said early on in this thread, Babcock has pathetic game-time coaching skills. He doesn't adjust lines or playing time in accordance with the evidence on the ice on any given night. Not to mention the evidence over the course of 10 games. That's fine when you are not scrambling for a playoff spot and can count on the skill and talent over the course of the season to equal out - but guess what? We ain't in Kansas anymore. Time to do some real coaching and he's not up to it.

Ruff is the same type of coach Babcock is...he plays favorites and is very stubborn, hence its no surprise the two of them are good friends. If the Wings decide to make a coaching change in the future, I hope they opt for a young guy with new ideas and who isn't afraid to piss off some veteran players. Babcock was once like this, but he's morphed into a company line man who favors those who have been in the league for some time.

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From an article in the Calgary Herald: "Well, it's amazing to me how you can play so well, look so organized, and look so talented. It's almost like you get playing so good that you get loose. It's crazy. We just gave it to them. It had nothing to do with them...To me, that was a disturbing loss because all we had to do was continue to do things right and you win the game." - Mike Babcock.

Sure Mike, we were so good that we lost. Gotcha.

Watch the video clip. I've never seen him look that disgusted. He looks like he was having an LGW moment there. Just shock, disbelief, frustration and disgust.

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Reality check time, this team is mediocre.

Mediocre is too strong. Average is more like it.

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I'm sorry but this is so typical. Team starts under-performing and now all of the sudden the coach needs to take a hike. This is classic fandom in the works. Babs makes one confusing move (Abby-Dats-Cleary) that the fans don't like and all of the sudden he needs to be replaced? Keep your heads on.

For all we know Abby walked into his office and said: "I can be that next PWF if u'd let me", and Mike said: "Ok, this is a gap year, an experimentation year, lets see what you got." Gives him a shot in the top 6 and it didn't workout. Big whoop.

Abby's still young somewhat young for hockey, doesn't hurt to experiment with your young guys.

I'm not claiming to be anything special, but I swear half of LGW would be worse than Garth Snow.... but still, it's the only forum I come to

I've actually been of the opinion that Babcock should be let go for a couple years now.

Its not that I don't think he's a great coach, I think he's probably one of the best in the world, I just think every coach has a limited amount of time where their message is effective with their team. I also think a coaches style should mesh with his roster and with the management of his team.

Babcock seems to be in open disagreement with management as far as what style of team they should put on the ice and if I have to choose between Holland/Nill/Develanno vs Babcock I'm letting Babcock go for sure. I wouldn't be too upset if Holland was let go but I don't think it would fix the problem with Babs as Nill has shown from his drafting that he prefers skill over size just like Holland does.

Its pretty clear though that the rift between Babcock and Management isn't working itself out, it kind of reminds me of a less dramatic version of Moneyball with the manager using everything at his disposal to fight against the decisions of the GM.

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I've actually been of the opinion that Babcock should be let go for a couple years now.

Its not that I don't think he's a great coach, I think he's probably one of the best in the world, I just think every coach has a limited amount of time where their message is effective with their team. I also think a coaches style should mesh with his roster and with the management of his team.

Babcock seems to be in open disagreement with management as far as what style of team they should put on the ice and if I have to choose between Holland/Nill/Develanno vs Babcock I'm letting Babcock go for sure. I wouldn't be too upset if Holland was let go but I don't think it would fix the problem with Babs as Nill has shown from his drafting that he prefers skill over size just like Holland does.

Its pretty clear though that the rift between Babcock and Management isn't working itself out, it kind of reminds me of a less dramatic version of Moneyball with the manager using everything at his disposal to fight against the decisions of the GM.

This is true. Coaching is one of the few positions that you can't have the same guy at forever.

In regards to the Ruff talk, how well would he mesh with this group of guys?

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Difference was, if Scotty was handed a mediocre team like this one, he'd have the GM's head on a platter. It wouldn't have happened like this.

True, but he would have had that GM scouring the league for quality d-men when Schneider left as the heir-apparent to Rafalski, since we already Kronner....

I'm not saying we're not a contender. I believe that any team who makes the playoffs can win the cup these days.

I'm saying the Wings expect a down year to retool. Playoffs or not. Coaching is irrelevant right now IMO.

In my honest personal opinion, I really like Babs. He's the hardass that doesn't care if you like him or not. He wins. A Detroit guy. Sucks that he has to be the guy to deal with this year. I'm sure he's frustrated. But that's business.

I'll say it. The Wings aren't a contender right now, and to be honest, they weren't really a contender last year, win streak be dammed.

But you're right, coaching is irrelevant right now. This team's struggles are a lack of talent to fit into the system that Babcock runs. This system has been shown to work very well since he's been here, when he has the right players. If they aren't going to give him the right players, they need to let him go now so the rebuilding can begin. Otherwise, get cracking Holland.

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