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Babcock: Is he the right guy going forward?


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#21 StormJH1

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:40 AM

Wow, no offense but this comes off as a spoiled brat writing this. We have become accustomed to winning every year as wings fans. The problem with the cap era is it's nearly impossible to have seamless transitions every time your stars retire/leave, and we have had 3/4 of our top dmen either retire or leave in the last 3 years. Unfortunately we didn't have any stars that were nhl ready in the pipeline, and we couldn't get the big signings to ease a transition. It is the end of an era, no matter what coach we have, unless our prospects become superstars, our 20 year reign of terror  is closing up, you can't win forever. I've been lucky enough to see my team win 4 cups, most people can't even say they've seen 2, Babs has been an awesome coach, and he is not the problem. We have done awesome thus far with the team we have, and I am happy to be able to just watch hockey, win or lose, I love watching the wings. Babcock leaving won't solve a thing

 

Amen.  There's a lot of unfair criticisms of Detroit and Detroit fans, but the ones having to do with a spoiled sense of entitlement are spot on.  This roster is not that special.  It's certainly not "bad", given that we rarely have a Top 15 pick, let alone a Top 3 pick, and all the guys that we lost.  But every Red Wings argument about coaching and GM starts with the premise "The Red Wings obviously should be in the Conference Finals this year and every years, so..."  The young guys look kinda promising, but none of them are blue chippers.  There was no training camp.  Guys like Lashoff and Huskins that weren't even supposed to be involved have gotten key minutes on defense.  And yet here we are, and the results have hardly been disastrous.

 

Babcock may wear out his message someday, but anyone who things now is the time to dump him isn't thinking rationally.  Not even close.



#22 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:53 AM


Babcock has to play the guys Holland signs, so I dont point the finger at Babs too much. We have a trio of old softies (Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson) that need to be axed. But the coach cant just make the GM look bad. Babs has to play who Kenny brings in. If Babs has a big part in those signings, then thats another story.

I will second this. I find no reason to blame Babcock.
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#23 evilzyme

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

We obviously need to go after Mike Yeo! No seriously for what Babcock has to work with, he's been doing a damn good job. Renney, Peters and Babcock have made changes with this team. This season you can see the system has changed some. We're shot blocking, closing gaps, doing the right thing. It's an improvement from previous seasons with a worst lineup. They're finding ways to win with a depleted lineup and one drastically less skilled on the back end. No complaints here. There's. a reason he will be coaching team canada once again...

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#24 Carman

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:19 AM

He's not the perfect coach, but I can't think of anyone I'd take over him. Until he loses the respect and confidence of the team, he's my guy, even if I don't agree with every move.



#25 VM1138

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:04 AM

I get frustrated with Babcock's handling of players and I'm not sure he knows how to utilize young guys, but he's still the best coach in the league.  Most of our troubles can be traced to the departures of McClellan and Maclean, and the total collapse of our special teams.  I think we just haven't found good assistant coaches yet.  And Babcock has shown a lot of faith in Brunner and Tatar and Lashoff thus far, so I think he's improving in the handling of young talent.


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#26 SFwingsfan

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:09 AM

what "security"? the guy has a signed contract through end of 2014-2015 season. you honestly think he puts his own agenda over that of winning hockey games? huh? this team has been totally gutted over the last few years and we are still right there in the hunt and competitive, what more do you want from a coach?



#27 Johnz96

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

I really don't like how he keeps stating that we have to work a lot harder to win now, implying that they are not as good and shouldn't they have always worked as hard as they can?



#28 evilzyme

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

I really don't like how he keeps stating that we have to work a lot harder to win now, implying that they are not as good and shouldn't they have always worked as hard as they can?

 

Normally he is spot on when he says it. We need to set the pace more. Last night we came out swinging and fore-checked like I haven't seen us fore-check in awhile. It worked for us, and then we started to slow down. The second period we didn't work hard enough. We weren't winning battles, we weren't pushing the pace, we couldn't even break it out of the zone. That's what he means by we need to work a lot harder. We need to win those battles, we need to get the transition going as fast as possible. The third period we set the pace again but couldn't get a shot on net until nearly 10 minutes into the period, if that. As much as I hate him saying, "we need to compete more, we need to work harder." it's honestly true. He needs more drive out of these players, more heart. You biggest offense is your defense, it really relies on crisp passes out of the zone, and clean exits. If your defense isn't throwing a solid pass, you won't catch it smoothly and it'll break the momentum and speed through the neutral zone, which just drastically destroys your fore-check. It allows teams to re-establish their defensive positioning, and they can get man on man until we gain full possession, then they're going to run their system. That was one of our main problems at the beginning of the season, we had no breakout. Against a team like St.Louis, which relies more on work ethic than skill, you need to compete harder, you need to out-work them, otherwise they'll have a field day with you.


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"Got no fun if you got no puck"
'"I like ladies" - Towards the Lady Byng trophy
"Hannnnnnnnnnk"
"Okay $5 now"

 

I'm Don Cherry and Danny DeKeyser is my Kadri.


#29 frankgrimes

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:03 AM

I really don't like how he keeps stating that we have to work a lot harder to win now, implying that they are not as good and shouldn't they have always worked as hard as they can?

 

Babcock is a coach and as a coach you can't be satisfied your job is to push the best 1 % of worldwide hockeyplayers to be even better every game. I think it was  Burke who once said, how most of the feedback a coach is giving to his players will be negative.

 

Also Babcock is right, this team didn't have to work as hard a few seasons ago, because their skillset was that outstanding now other teams are equally or even higher skilled, so in order to gain wins and overcome that disparity the Red Wings have to work even harder to be succesful. I really have no problem with him stating  the obvious.

 

If the Sharks are firing MacLellan we should bring him back as an assistant coach, they guy knows how to run a powerplay or penalty kill!

 

Hardly anyone would see this roster as a stanley cup one and yet Babcock  managed to implement a system of working hard and getting the results I for one applaud him and hopefully this team can keep it up and make the playoffs.


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#30 evilzyme

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:11 AM

Babcock is a coach and as a coach you can't be satisfied your job is to push the best 1 % of worldwide hockeyplayers to be even better every game. I think it was  Burke who once said, how most of the feedback a coach is giving to his players will be negative.

 

Also Babcock is right, this team didn't have to work as hard a few seasons ago, because their skillset was that outstanding now other teams are equally or even higher skilled, so in order to gain wins and overcome that disparity the Red Wings have to work even harder to be succesful. I really have no problem with him stating  the obvious.

 

If the Sharks are firing MacLellan we should bring him back as an assistant coach, they guy knows how to run a powerplay or penalty kill!

 

Hardly anyone would see this roster as a stanley cup one and yet Babcock  managed to implement a system of working hard and getting the results I for one applaud him and hopefully this team can keep it up and make the playoffs.

 

There's rumors about that?! Oh my god! Unfortunately, he doesn't deserve to be an assistant coach, he certainly deserves to be a head. I just can't see him ever being an assistant after being the head for SJ, especially to come take his old job. He did some good things there, knows how to get into the players heads and motivate them, and certainly destroyed us while doing so. 


Pavel Datsyuk - "Pasha" - #13
"Got no fun if you got no puck"
'"I like ladies" - Towards the Lady Byng trophy
"Hannnnnnnnnnk"
"Okay $5 now"

 

I'm Don Cherry and Danny DeKeyser is my Kadri.


#31 shoobiedoobin

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:29 AM

Being honest I think the vast vast majority of Wings fans online are too emotional and prone to overreacting after losses to talk about this rationally. I never see these topics after a win.



#32 rrasco

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

Fire Babs.  Fire Kenny.  Trade Hank and Dats while they are worth something.  Blow it up.  It's over.  Might as well just relocate the team while we're at it too, right?


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#33 wingslogo19

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:54 AM

If you don't want Babcock, who do you want coaching this team?


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#34 frankgrimes

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

There's rumors about that?! Oh my god! Unfortunately, he doesn't deserve to be an assistant coach, he certainly deserves to be a head. I just can't see him ever being an assistant after being the head for SJ, especially to come take his old job. He did some good things there, knows how to get into the players heads and motivate them, and certainly destroyed us while doing so. 

 

Maybe he doesn't want to be a head coach again after getting fired? I've read somewhere think it was on tsn.ca that both the coach and GM are on a hot seat this season and you can bet Wilson would fire him in order to keep his job.


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#35 Nightfall

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:02 AM

If you don't want Babcock, who do you want coaching this team?

 

I bet he wants Charles Wong.

 

He is the best GM in the NHL, and I bet he would be a great head coach.  :D


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#36 Learn2LuvIt

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:05 AM

I've actually been very critical of Bab's the past few years.  Last year reaching the apex because I thought we had the roster to make it to at least the WCF finals.  However, I think he's doing an outstanding job this year.  As many posters have stated, our roster has gone through a significant overhaul bringing in a lot of young players who show a lot of promise, but don't have the NHL ice time to have proven they can play consistently at this level.  Before the season started many within the organization and outside of the organization had serious concerns about the D aspect of our game.  For good reason.  The first week of play really supported these concerns as valid...it was pretty scary.  But there is no doubt we defensively look much, much better.  In fact, at times I've thought our D has played very well.  Not great, not elite, but solid.  How you get the puzzle of B Smith, Lashoff, Carlo injured, Huskins, and a struggling Quincy to work is (IMO) attributed to a great positional coaching and head coaching.  So at this point of the season, I'm giving Babs and staff a HUGE thumbs up.

 

Also as a logical answer to the topic of this thread....who would you replace him with that is a better coach?  I start to think of coaches that have been good to great, not many that are consistently great, and I'm hard pressed to find someone that would surpass Babs in that regard (Stanley Cup, Olympics, etc..).  Finding a coach that you believe would be AS GOOD as Babs is really just getting a coach because you believe he's lost the players and there needs to be a symbolic change.  Sure a new coach can rah-rah the team at first, but often the honeymoon on this is short, and then it all reverts back to how good is an actual coach (system, strategy, personnel manager, leader, preparation, motivation, etc...) .  Still hard pressed to think of a BETTER coach than Babs.


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#37 The Secret

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:08 AM

Lets get rid of the best coach in the league who has done nothing but win everywhere he's coached. Seriously, he's doing a great job and we are lucky to have him. He's changing his strategy to get the most out of what he has to work with, which is the right thing to do.



#38 evilmrt

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:20 AM

Babs really only has made one big error, and that is the assistant coaching selection. He repeatedly has not been getting it right...and things like special teams show this. I believe that this will make for his 3rd bad coaching choice in a row?

#39 Barrie

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:34 AM

:rolleyes: here we go again...

 

Yes Babcock is the right guy for this group. If we replaced Holland and Babcock, the rest of the League would think we are insane! There would be a bidding war for their services, and they could name their price.

 

Plain and simple with this team (if people are disappointed and stressing out) the bottom 6 forwards need to score more. All have the ability to light the lamp 10 times in a 82 game schedule. With Helm, Bert, and Smith injured and the 3rd and 4th lines not producing, we're still 7-4-2. No one is going to catch Chicago, so we'll finish 4th, 5th, or 6th in the Conference. With everyone healthy and reaching their potential, there's no question we're one of the front runners to win the Cup.

 

To respond to the Holland comments, I don't know how many times I need to say this! The way to build is through the draft. Free Agents and trades are way overpriced, and with a cap, can handcuff a franchise for 10 years. Let the Minnesota's kill their chances for the next 13 years paying only 2 guys.


Edited by Barrie, 14 February 2013 - 11:35 AM.

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#40 Crymson

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:12 PM

I don't necessarily want a different coach, just one that can react to the adversity you point out in a game time situation.  We've lost a tone of games over the last few years around either PP/PK, shift changes or ice time management.

 

Every team sport is the same.  You have your x's and o's and then you have the decisions you make during the game that have nothing to do with what you planned.  Some (few) coaches are good at reading the game and adjusting and some are not.  Babcock, in my opinion, is not.  To some extent this how we blew a 3-1 lead in the 2009 finals.

 

The Wings never had a 3-1 lead in the 2009 finals, and the greatest contributing factor to the team's defeat in that series was the absurd series of injuries. Of all the players on the top two forward lines and the top defense pairing, Zetterberg was the single one who wasn't injured.







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