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Babcock: Is he the right guy going forward?


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#41 Red Crazy

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:21 PM

I think Babcock is the right guy going forward. Yes I too have been not happy at some of his lines but for the most part he has done a good job this year with what Holland and injuries have gave him. Holland on the other hand I am not so sure anymore. What's he been doing lately?



#42 puckbags

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:36 PM

I think a huge sign of a good coach is how you deal with roster turnover and injuries.  We haven't played two games in a row this year with the same lineup I don't think. Decimated by injuries and the loss of the best d man of the last 20 years.  We are 7-4-2.  I have never lost faith in Babs and I sure won't start now.


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#43 Nev

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:52 PM

I don't necessarily want a different coach, just one that can react to the adversity you point out in a game time situation.  We've lost a tone of games over the last few years around either PP/PK, shift changes or ice time management.

 

Every team sport is the same.  You have your x's and o's and then you have the decisions you make during the game that have nothing to do with what you planned.  Some (few) coaches are good at reading the game and adjusting and some are not.  Babcock, in my opinion, is not.  To some extent this how we blew a 3-1 lead in the 2009 finals.

 

We blew a 3-2 lead in the 2009 finals because we were lucky to be 3-2 up in the first place instead of 4-0 down, and because we were absolutely riddled with injuries.

 

Our PK has sucked ever since 2009 when Babs stopped using the big guns except on 5-on-3s.  Why?  Because his superstar forward broke his foot blocking a shot on the PK and we went on to lose in the finals without him......That and his all-universe defenceman started slowing down.  But it is a fair criticism that Babcock bears some of the responsibility for not doing a better job with what he's got left.

 

Ice time allocation - lots of criticism on here for him "trying to get guys going", but he's always done that in the regular season.  He was right to persevere with Hudler, eventually he came good again.  He's done it with Z in the past when he was stone cold, splitting up Datsyuk's hot line for him and vice versa.  Cleary was bad last season, but come the playoffs he was one of the few Wings to impress, and Babs has always been big on his vets in the playoffs, every year he has commented on how Draper or Maltby or whoever has stepped up their play in the postseason.  Clearly he thinks Cleary needs to play himself into fitness, form and confidence.

 

Lastly, its very clear he and Holland have not always seen eye to eye.  He publicly disagreed with the decision to send the rookie Leino and Abdelkader back to the minors.  He has repeatedly moaned about a lack of sandpaper whenever we haven't had a Drake or a May or a Tootoo.  He was critical of the strength and depth of the roster after the Nashville series.  This is not the team Babs would ideally like to ice, but he can only play with the hand he has been dealt.

 

Edit:  Lastly, to repeat, to be 5th in the west after all the personnel losses, and all the injuries, I'm estatic.  I didn't expect to be doing this well with a full, healthy roster.


Edited by Nev, 14 February 2013 - 01:03 PM.

"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#44 kook_10

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:08 PM

IMO Babs has been doing a great job this year.  I have been critical of him in the past, and I have been nervous about the ability of the team to play a puck possession game in the absence of Lids. Sure special teams needs a bit of work and we need a stronger defense corps, but as of late the team overall has been performing well.  I don't know if the Wings can be considered an elite team any more in terms of raw talent and how they look on paper.  While dealing with some key injuries in the lower ranks and a major shakeup on the blue line, they've done a relatively good job of integrating new guys into the big club and old guys into new roles.  After laying a few eggs early on the guys overall look like a cohesive unit with systems in place.  That doesn't mean they will outskate everyone every night, and it doesn't mean that Quincey will be Norris calibre because he can play within the system.  With new faces, fatigue from the condensed schedule, Kenny managing personnel, and real on-ice leadership coming from a core of veterans, the task of motivating is far from Babs' sole responsibility and the task of performing is subject to ability. Only if the D really fail in the sense where they require more out of the forwards to drop down and break the puck out (at the expense of transition speed) will it require a change in plan.  That would seem to be a bigger failure than we are seeing because we have some great two way forwards who can and do help out. Right now they are dealing with it well given what they have and Helm's return will be a big help.  Presumably Kenny is testing the market to help bolster the D and/or using this year to see if the existing personnel pick it up.  



works every time


#45 kipwinger

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

I take the same position with Babs as I do with Leyland.  They are both good coaches, they both do a ton of s*** that pisses me off, but there's no point in moving them out if there isn't someone better who's available at the time. 

 

I was all for letting Leyland walk last year when Terry Francona was still available, once he was off the market there was nobody better, so why not stick with Jim.  Same with Babs. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#46 cupforwings

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:13 PM

I didn't even read the argument in here. One of the most ridiculous questions I've ever heard.

I couldn't agree more.  Babcock is the best coach in the NHL.  We are fortunate to have him.  The fact that we have found ways to win the past two years despite our shortcomings shows his value.  This thread is ridiculous.  Babckock is one of the only bright spots this team has.

 

And to say he makes bad roster decisions, playing time decisions, and in-game decisions is ridiculous.  If you know who the best players are, which position they should play on, and how to coach this team, then go become a professional hockey coach.  But your questioning a guy who has won, big, everywhere he has ever coached.   Its about the ability of the players.



#47 Pucks

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:30 PM

I don't like his line choices. Anyone can see Cleary needs reduced ice time, not a promotion and increased icetime. Abdelkader is a plug and has no business being moved up in the top 6. His only message is work harder? How about work smarter? He's a good coach, but his decision making is suspect.



Welcome to the playoffs....where the games get better and the officiating gets worse.


#48 Euro_Twins

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:36 PM

I don't like his line choices. Anyone can see Cleary needs reduced ice time, not a promotion and increased icetime. Abdelkader is a plug and has no business being moved up in the top 6. His only message is work harder? How about work smarter? He's a good coach, but his decision making is suspect.

 

I liked the idea of putting abby in the top 6 for a game, give him a chance to get going, motivate him a bit and see what he is capable of on a top line, it didn't seem to work, but hey why not give it a shot? Cleary however should not be anywhere near the top 9, let alone top 6.



#49 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:47 PM

Mr. Babcock does not come with a "Best Before" label.

 

 


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- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#50 kipwinger

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:51 PM

My biggest problem with Babcock is that he believes that with just the right type of reshuffling/juggling/will power, ANY player can be effective in pretty much ANY role.  And once he's got that in his head, he refuses to let observable evidence stand in the way. 

 

Babcock:  Johan Franzen can be a top flight winger if he'd just try harder. 

Reality:  Franzen is a good complimentary scorer as proven by the fact that his best years were when Zetterberg and Hossa were the dominant wingers. 

 

Babcock:  Abdelkader can be a third line scoring winger if given some time and consistent line mates. 

Reality:  He'll never ever produce points at the NHL level, and is best in a banging and crashing role.  Both Eaves and Miller are better scorers at the NHL level while still maintaining defensive responsibility. 

 

Babcock:  Filppula can be an effective winger in the NHL if he would only shoot more. 

Reality:  Filppula still won't shoot, even as a winger, and he had a career year last season because he was paired with a shooting center.  Few of Flip's goals last season were the result of his shooting more, most were the result of rebounds, breakaways, or odd man rushes. 

 

 

But still, I wouldn't fire Babs.  He just irritates the hell out of me sometimes. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#51 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

Mike Babcock is more "right" for the job than he was when he initially got it.  He's always preached hard work and grinding it out.  With that style of play and the success it gave him, it allowed him to ascend the ranks of coaching as quickly as he did.  This current Red Wings team is less talented and far more gritty than it's been in over 15 years.  Babs' style is a perfect fit.


It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


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#52 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:05 PM

I like Babs, think he's a great coach, develops young guys well, but has no clue about goalie schedules and in game changes. Starting Howard again Friday? What happened to him needing a break? Mrazek won a game in one of the hardest barns in the league, and hasn't gotten a sniff since. It's just stupid. As far as his in game adjustments, he fails to make line changes when guys are really struggling, until it's too late.

 

No better guy out there for the Wings, but some of the things he does drive me wacko.


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#53 blgillett

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:14 PM

I don't think there is anyone better are problem is we need to replace our Defense and pick up at least one forward
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#54 joshy207

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

I don't think you'd find anyone better right now than Babcock.  Sometimes I've wondered whether his message is wearing thin with the players, but then the team will snap back and play better hockey.  There are some things that frustrate me though, like hearing him say the same things over and over, like "we have to start better", "we have to play a full 60 minutes", "we have to be better prepared", "we have to work harder"... well, what happens when the bad habits continue game in and game out?  NOTHING.  Same guys, same roles.  If Franzen is lazy, scratch him.  Or bench him, make him dress and sit on the end of the bench all game.  If Cleary is hurt (last year), sit him out for 2-3 weeks and let him heal, he couldn't have gotten any worse.  If Howard has played all but 4 periods this season and will probably wear down like he kinda did after playing just about every game late last year, rest him.  Mrazek is here for a reason, to play.  If he's not going to play, tell Holland to bring McCollum or Pearce up.  Maybe ream a guy publicly, even though it's not his style.  Something's gotta give in those situations.  That said, the team's record and performance to date are better than I had expected.  Not that I thought they'd be 0-13 or anything like that, but they do show flashes of being a pretty good team.



#55 b.shanafan14

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:21 PM

I don't think you'd find anyone better right now than Babcock.  Sometimes I've wondered whether his message is wearing thin with the players, but then the team will snap back and play better hockey.  There are some things that frustrate me though, like hearing him say the same things over and over, like "we have to start better", "we have to play a full 60 minutes", "we have to be better prepared", "we have to work harder"... well, what happens when the bad habits continue game in and game out?  NOTHING.  Same guys, same roles.  If Franzen is lazy, scratch him.  Or bench him, make him dress and sit on the end of the bench all game.  If Cleary is hurt (last year), sit him out for 2-3 weeks and let him heal, he couldn't have gotten any worse.  If Howard has played all but 4 periods this season and will probably wear down like he kinda did after playing just about every game late last year, rest him.  Mrazek is here for a reason, to play.  If he's not going to play, tell Holland to bring McCollum or Pearce up.  Maybe ream a guy publicly, even though it's not his style.  Something's gotta give in those situations.  That said, the team's record and performance to date are better than I had expected.  Not that I thought they'd be 0-13 or anything like that, but they do show flashes of being a pretty good team.

 

This does a pretty good job of summing up my thoughts. Babcock is a great coach, one of the best in the league over the past decade and will likely go down as one of the winningest coaches in NHL history before he is done. You couldn't find anyone better than him of coaches available (or unavailable really). BUT.... doesn't punish slackers, is quick to change lines but not much else, and has never been great at handling goaltenders (Howard and whoever, Hasek and Osgood, etc.)



#56 e_prime

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:50 AM

Babs is my guy, but did you guys note that Tortorella benched Brad Richards last night?

 

I mean, there is a world of difference between sitting Danny Cleary for a game and sitting Brad "Freakin'" Richards.

...but Torts is a coach that can do that and it means something, it proves a point, especially to a player like Richards.

 

I wish that Babs would do that.  It would have the same meaning and effect and maybe all of this "Player X could be better" would actually have some weight and actual repercussions. 

 

"Hey Clears, I know you can be so much better... I didn't see that from you in the last 10 games.  Take a night off.  Show me in practice what I'm looking for and I'll work you back in. Until then, ride the pine Danny-Boy." 

 

(I'm sure Babs could say it more appropriately and more convincingly, but it's not THAT HARD, right?)


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#57 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:50 AM

Babs is my guy, but did you guys note that Tortorella benched Brad Richards last night?

 

I mean, there is a world of difference between sitting Danny Cleary for a game and sitting Brad "Freakin'" Richards.

...but Torts is a coach that can do that and it means something, it proves a point, especially to a player like Richards.

 

I wish that Babs would do that.  It would have the same meaning and effect and maybe all of this "Player X could be better" would actually have some weight and actual repercussions. 

 

"Hey Clears, I know you can be so much better... I didn't see that from you in the last 10 games.  Take a night off.  Show me in practice what I'm looking for and I'll work you back in. Until then, ride the pine Danny-Boy." 

 

(I'm sure Babs could say it more appropriately and more convincingly, but it's not THAT HARD, right?)

 

I wish Babcock would sit the upper line players more when they're not performing, though I think Tortorella is too far the other direction.  The guy's an angry nutjob.  It's one thing to do it to motivate guys and give them a wakeup call.  But he always seems furious at someone on the roster. 

 

In terms of Babcock being the right guy for the job?  absolutely.  I can think of a few others maybe I wouldn't mind but I can't think of any I'd rather have coaching this patchwork team right now. 



#58 Crymson

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:18 AM

Tortorella is a guy whose head seems like it is always on the verge of nuclear explosion. There's being a taskmaster, and then there's being a guy whose players probably can't stand him.



#59 e_prime

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

Tortorella is a guy whose head seems like it is always on the verge of nuclear explosion. There's being a taskmaster, and then there's being a guy whose players probably can't stand him.

Agreed.  ...but Richards knew what he was getting himself into when he signed with the Rags.  So, that says something about Torts and his coaching style with players.

 

Players don't like to get benched. Some of them know why they've been benched, and some act like getting benched wasn't their fault or was the freaking end of their careers... some say, "Hey, I've been playing like crap, coach benched me, I need to get back out there and do my job."  I know this hard to do when you have a team that's as injured as we are, but I think it might wake certain players up.


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#60 Pucks

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:58 PM

Why would he construct a line of Nyquist Filppula Abdelkader? Two perimeter playmakers/passers and a guy who belongs on the 4th line, rediculous.



Welcome to the playoffs....where the games get better and the officiating gets worse.






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