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Valteri Flippula

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Let's discuss Flippula for a moment.

I've been talking about Flippula a lot lately and it's not because I don't like the guy. I have always stood by him in his developing years and knew he would have his breakout year last year. If you look back at my older posts I have always been a big fan but, this being his final year in his contract, I just don't find it wise for Holland to give him a raise and lock him up long term. Going forward this team needs to be bigger and stronger. Finesse and skill is fine but we have more than enough of that. Flippula gives us no extra dynamic in the top 6 and honestly, if you replace Flippula with Nyquist I don't expect to see much of a difference. Flippula would make a huge difference on other teams and be worth the money to them but to the red wings I don't see a place for him if we get to the point of being a stanley cup contender. I would love for Holland to atleast take one step in the right direction this season by getting somebody new that can shake up the lineup

And this isn't because I'm freaking out about the loss. This is a big choice Holland has to make whether to keep him, trade him or let him walk so and that is just my opinion

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The defensive corps needs an upgrade, plain and simple. A forward will have to be moved if Holland wants to keep his job. Flippula fits the bill. Not ideal, but Kenny F-ed up.

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I like Val, but he's going to command 4 to 5 mil per. Wings have more pressing needs for that money.

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If we were going to trade Filppula I think last year would have been the time to do it. The problem now becomes if he stays the way he has, which is primarily a complimentary player, I don't think teams would be willing to give us much in return for him, especially considering he could easily not sign and walk away during free agency. And I don't think cup contenders are really looking for a filppula level rent a player. Otherwise, he could have another huge (half)season. And if the guy has two very good seasons (or 1.5 lol) in a row do we really want to trade him away?

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This team needs to change it's dynamic because as of right now were not a puck possession team.

imagine one day watching the wings and they are the league leading shot blockers... that would be amazing

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Flip is a really good 2 way forward that the wings should keep. What we need is a big nasty power forward for the 1st and 2nd lines so we dont have plugs on those lines

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Let's discuss Flippula for a moment.

I've been talking about Flippula a lot lately and it's not because I don't like the guy. I have always stood by him in his developing years and knew he would have his breakout year last year. If you look back at my older posts I have always been a big fan but, this being his final year in his contract, I just don't find it wise for Holland to give him a raise and lock him up long term. Going forward this team needs to be bigger and stronger. Finesse and skill is fine but we have more than enough of that. Flippula gives us no extra dynamic in the top 6 and honestly, if you replace Flippula with Nyquist I don't expect to see much of a difference. Flippula would make a huge difference on other teams and be worth the money to them but to the red wings I don't see a place for him if we get to the point of being a stanley cup contender. I would love for Holland to atleast take one step in the right direction this season by getting somebody new that can shake up the lineup

And this isn't because I'm freaking out about the loss. This is a big choice Holland has to make whether to keep him, trade him or let him walk so and that is just my opinion

This is bull, in every gdt so far you have been incessently talking smack about fil, and hoping for someone to hop on your hate train. I don't know why you have this disdain for him, he has been one of our most solid and complete players all year, hes putting points up, as well as being very good defensively. I'm honestly wondering if you just like to stir things up, with Datsyuks future unkown we cannot afford to lose anymore offense, and to those saying lose him cause we can use that money otherwise, here's a little insight for you;

Our current defense is at about 20.2mil cap hit

Losing Quincey, White, and Kindl from that, opens up about 7.5mil

now giving Lashoff about 1.5mil next season and smith 2mil leaves us with 5.3mil, plus the left over million on our cap, so 6.3 million to spend

now on to offense;

without cleary mursak and miller gone that frees up another 4.2 mil, so now 10.5 million to spend, with 1 buyout used.

give flip 4.5mil, leaves us with 9mil, howie should be at about 4mil next year, so we still have 7.25mil. and after you give brunner 3mil, we have 5.5mil to spend.

Now buyout a guy like sammy and you have 8.5 mil to spend. I think we can get a pretty good dman for 8.5 mil

bottom line, flip needs to stay

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I'm saying this as both a die hard Cleary fan and a proponent of bringing back Sammy; flip should stay at almost all cost. Even if it means buying out Sammy or Cleary and dumping some fourth liner

Edited by wingedominance13

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This team needs to change it's dynamic because as of right now were not a puck possession team.

imagine one day watching the wings and they are the league leading shot blockers... that would be amazing

Not as amazing as finding the Wings leading the league in fighting majors.

As far as Flip, I go back & forth on him. Is he worth the raise he'll probably get to re-sign or is that money better spent elsewhere? Sure he's good defensively but he's only had that one breakout scoring season & that was playing wing, not center. If last season was just an outlier year & his ceiling really is that of an above average defensive center/sometime winger who puts up 40 points a year at best? I guess what I'm saying is that it comes down to the cap hit in my mind.

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To me it came down to Flip or Huds, and Huds was the odd man out. Val needs to stay, people need to consider the age of Dats and Zett and that we need some younger skill for our future that aren't unproven prospects. Considering options, Filppula is among the last i'd move because long term we need him pretty badly and he's an important part of our overall development.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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I don't get Fippula there are times when he make a move on the ice that almost looks like Dats then he pulls a bone head move and gives the puck away. Your right this is an important year of his time here with Detroit its a make or break deal so far he look average we will see

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With crappy defensemen, we need ranks full of good skating and puck handling 2-way forwards to help lead the transition and neutral zone game. Flip does this very well.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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Feels like he's been a non-factor for us this season. He's not been bad, and has done some good things, but overall he hasn't been an impact player for us. Which is unfortunate coming off such a fantastic season. Maybe he needs to be paired with Z again?

As for keeping him around or not, if we let him go after this year and the Datsyuk leaves after next season we'll be hurting. Fil might be expendable right now but we need to think a bit further ahead.

kipwinger likes this

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Wait until Flip has Pulkkinen on his line with an NHL'er as the 3rd guy and not a guy in the Euro leagues. If you stick a power forward or even in the future a guy like Sheahan to be the line dog and go get the puck, that would be a good fit on the Wings. There's a reason Flip was sent to play with Pulks. He's part of the plan.

MabusIncarnate likes this

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Feels like he's been a non-factor for us this season. He's not been bad, and has done some good things, but overall he hasn't been an impact player for us. Which is unfortunate coming off such a fantastic season. Maybe he needs to be paired with Z again?

As for keeping him around or not, if we let him go after this year and the Datsyuk leaves after next season we'll be hurting. Fil might be expendable right now but we need to think a bit further ahead.

Thank you, I've been saying this for weeks now. The reason Flip was so good last year is because he played with a finishing center in Zetterberg. Flip had six more goals last year than the year before, but he had 20 more assists. Why the minimal difference in goals and the huge differential in assists? Because he was playing with two guys that liked to shoot. When you put him on a line with Dats and Bert there are not any finishers on the whole line.

Tell me why the three guys with the most shots on goal are all on the same line? And the three top sixers who shoot the least are on the same line?

Put Flip with Zetterberg and Franzen, and Brunner with Datsyuk and Bert and watch Flip come alive, with no noticeable dropoff in play from Brunner.

Babs drives me ******* nuts with these line combos sometimes.

Edit: In the name of accuracy I have to stand corrected, Flip, Dats, and Franzen all have similar shot totals (28-27-28). Brunner and Zetterberg are way ahead (43-45). Bert is way behind (10).

I still stand behind my point.

Edited by kipwinger

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Thank you, I've been saying this for weeks now. The reason Flip was so good last year is because he played with a finishing center in Zetterberg. Flip had six more goals last year than the year before, but he had 20 more assists. Why the minimal difference in goals and the huge differential in assists? Because he was playing with two guys that liked to shoot. When you put him on a line with Dats and Bert there are not any finishers on the whole line.

Tell me why the three guys with the most shots on goal are all on the same line? And the three top sixers who shoot the least are on the same line?

Put Flip with Zetterberg and Franzen, and Brunner with Datsyuk and Bert and watch Flip come alive, with no noticeable dropoff in play from Brunner.

Babs drives me ******* nuts with these line combos sometimes.

Edit: In the name of accuracy I have to stand corrected, Flip, Dats, and Franzen all have similar shot totals (28-27-28). Brunner and Zetterberg are way ahead (43-45). Bert is way behind (10).

I still stand behind my point.

I would be opposed to splitting up Z and Brunner this soon. Brunner is still pretty green in the NHL and Zett is his one source of familiarity and chemistry. In the future sure, but look at Zett's production so far, you can't argue with the results. There's not much reason to split things up at this time, but once the scoring slumps come, and i'm sure they will, i'd be willing to see the top two lines get mixed up and see what works better.

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Thank you, I've been saying this for weeks now. The reason Flip was so good last year is because he played with a finishing center in Zetterberg. .

Flip played wing. Wing plays deeper, gets more chances, plays less defense. If you look at how he played he was going harder to the net, playing behind the goal line, trying to generate more offense. Watch when he played C. Exact same player, same everything, he just didn't go too deep and often was at center ice by the time the other team even got out of their own zone. Of course it's going to lead to less offense doing that.

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I would be opposed to splitting up Z and Brunner this soon. Brunner is still pretty green in the NHL and Zett is his one source of familiarity and chemistry. In the future sure, but look at Zett's production so far, you can't argue with the results. There's not much reason to split things up at this time, but once the scoring slumps come, and i'm sure they will, i'd be willing to see the top two lines get mixed up and see what works better.

The scoring slump did come, just not on that line, two of the three members of the first line aren't producing for s***. Zetterberg's production would remain consistent with Flip as history has shown, Brunner's would increase or stay the same as he'd be playing with Pav. And Flip, Dats, (and maybe Bert) would see an increase in production because they would finally be playing with guys that can finish instead of the three of them just passing back and forth every shift.

Think about this, you know all those times Bert hangs on to the puck down low, fights off a defender draped all over his back, and passes out into the slot to make a play? Wouldn't it be nice if the guy he passed it to (Brunner) would actually bury it? Same with Dats, he's the best playmaker in the world, and neither of his wingers can finish. Now imagine if Flip carried the puck into the zone like he's good at, and he could pass to one of either Franzen or Zetterberg, both of whom can finish. Now his production increases as well.

I understand what you're saying about Brunner and Z, I really do. But it's not like Brunner would be playing with nobodies, he's be playing with the best passer in the world and a power forward that clears space and distributes the puck well, both of them need a shooter to be more effective. And Brunner could be that shooter (Flip sure isn't). Also, it's not like Z and Flip haven't shown chemistry in the past either. Why is the Brunner/Zetterberg chemistry any more important than the Flip/Z chemistry, especially when you consider one maintains the status quo while the other potentially gets a guy going who is currently underperfoming.

Flip played wing. Wing plays deeper, gets more chances, plays less defense. If you look at how he played he was going harder to the net, playing behind the goal line, trying to generate more offense. Watch when he played C. Exact same player, same everything, he just didn't go too deep and often was at center ice by the time the other team even got out of their own zone. Of course it's going to lead to less offense doing that.

I know he played wing, and that wingers production is usually higher in our system. But look where the additional production came from. It wasn't goals, it was assists. When Flip played on a line with a guy that shoots and finishes well (Zetterberg) his assists doubled, while his goals only increased marginally. Flip is a pass first guy, so putting him with other pass first guys (Pav and Bert) doesn't play to his strengths. Put him with guys that love to shoot, and his production will increase. No brainer.

Edited by kipwinger

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There's no doubt the chemistry in the top 6 would be a lot better with 1 or 2 more shooters. When I envision a rebuilt stanley cup contending Detroit Red WIngs I don't see Flippula in the top 6.

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I think he's top six material, and I don't think we need any more shooters. I just think we shouldn't put all the pass first guys on one line, and all that shooters on the other. Last year Zetterberg had 265 shots on goal, Franzen had 211, and Brunner is keeping pace with both of them so obviously he shoots a lot. However last year Datsyuk shot 167 times, Flip shot (career high) 144 times, and Bert shot 118 times.

Why in the hell you'd lump them together the way they are now blows my mind.

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You spend money on Defense and Centers. Fil is a good center and will be very valuable in the future. I will agree it makes sense to get an elite winger (like Bobby Ryan) for Fil's replacement. This is only because Fil is not an elite wing, just a very good one. At center is a 1 on a lot of teams and a 2 on all.

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... Put him with guys that love to shoot, and his production will increase. No brainer.

I agree. My thought is to swap Bert and Franzen. Same principle though.

Even though they have 11 goals, they haven't been scoring much as a unit. Both Bert and Flip have a 2g game, and last night was the first time Pav scored on that line (He has 4 on the PP, 1 early while playing with Hank and Cleary). So they've only scored in 4 of 10 games together. We need better from our 2nd (or 1B) line. (Franzen-Hank-Brunner have scored in 8 of 10.)

I thnk Bert's good enough with the puck that he won't hurt Hank and Brunner. Plus the way that line is now there aren't enough pucks to go around. It's probably why Franzen's shots per game are down.

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Fil should be resigned. Only C we have under 30. But lack of depth is forcing us to us him at wing. If we were not planning on keeping him, then we should have moved him last year. being a UFA this summer, his trade value is low.

As for the cost to resing him, Hudler got 4 million per season, so fil? 5+ million.

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