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#1 frankgrimes

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:18 AM

Note: Rumour

 

according to this site http://www.geek.com/...inect-20130212/ M$ next console won't work = start without having your kinect plugged in and calibrated.  I know M$ is lately known for stupid things but honestly can they really be that stupid? I play games, just to play them I am not interested in jumping around, yelling and do some stupid gestures with my hands. When will M$ come to the conclusion that Kinect will not hold a candle to the Wii.

 

Also I find the discussion here http://www.gamefaqs....ox-360/65442319 laughfull at best, the guy doesn't even understand that its still an accessoire only difference is, this time it will be included in the Durango bundle.

 

Combine that with the rumours about required internet connection, no used games and other crap I refuse to believe that M$ would really be that stupid but then again, who knows, they really seem to be desperate now http://www.gamespot....ncement-6403894 guess what most people don't care about all these stupid gimmicks, they just want a powerful console to play games and not an entertainment hub, filled with netflix, youtube and whatever that's what tablets, smartphones and pcs are for.

 

Mind you still rumours, but I think the powers will be something like this:

 

Ps 4 >>>> Durango >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wii U

 

so if Sony is playing their cards right, they could have a huge advantage this time.


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#2 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:25 PM

I owned a Kinect, played with it twice, and traded it in within the same week. Motion controlled gaming is NOT what the majority of gamers want, and I continue to wonder why they stress this so damn much. If this is the case, and the console won't function without motion controlled devices then I may look elsewhere and avoid Microsoft's console this time around. Something about being connected online with a camera on me at all times makes me nervous, i'm not paranoid but you can't tell me that MS can't link into it and watch you randomly if they want to. It's like when Aarons was renting out computers and taking photos of the people using them through their system when people weren't paying their bill. It's a violation of privacy, regardless if this is the intention of MS or not, it's intrusive. 


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#3 Jedi

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

We got the Kinect system for Christmas 2011.  It's currently behind the TV, facing the wall.  Something about having that camera on me even if I"m playing a non-Kinect enabled game just gave me the heebie jeebies.

 

And I have to agree.  The gamers that are spending the kind of money that MS and Sony want are buying games like Dead Space 3 and GTA V, not Kinect Adventures and PS Move.  Motion control gaming was a huge success for the Wii, but it's already proving to be more flash-in-a-pan than lightning-in-a-bottle...

 

Add in the idiotic (and industry killing) restrictions on used games, and you're looking at driving more and more customers away.  Possibly even me.  I'm not nearly as excited about the next-gen consoles as I was (and still am) about the 360 and PS3.


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#4 shoobiedoobin

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:58 PM

I owned a Kinect, played with it twice, and traded it in within the same week. Motion controlled gaming is NOT what the majority of gamers want, and I continue to wonder why they stress this so damn much. If this is the case, and the console won't function without motion controlled devices then I may look elsewhere and avoid Microsoft's console this time around. Something about being connected online with a camera on me at all times makes me nervous, i'm not paranoid but you can't tell me that MS can't link into it and watch you randomly if they want to. It's like when Aarons was renting out computers and taking photos of the people using them through their system when people weren't paying their bill. It's a violation of privacy, regardless if this is the intention of MS or not, it's intrusive. 

 


If they want to watch me at all times whenever I'm not using the Kinect I'll point it at a picture of a giant middle finger. Enjoy. Really if it bothers you that a camera is pointed at you (a reasonable concern) unplug your ethernet cable. At least that's always an option.

 

Motion controls have so much potential. I think the Wiimote was what got it off the ground and it was done right. It had a pack-in game that worked as a proof of concept (necessary) and the advertising was perfect. Microsoft took it one level up with full body control, which is the kind of thing every kid-gamer who is now grown up should remember as something we all imagined, were teased with, but never got. Now we have it. It's clunky (though not as clunky as I expected) but it's still amazing. The clunkiness will kill the immersion when you aren't playing naturally, you're both playing the game and thinking about controlling it. When you hold a controller you aren't consciously thinking about what buttons to press, you just hit them. When you play Kinect you're always conscious of the slight delay and multiple ways the camera can go wonky (lose sight of you, too close or too far, etc.). If that gets ironed out, you've got an absolutely insane piece of hardware. Futuristic type of stuff.

 

Problem is no one is utilizing it properly right now. Just like the Wii. It has such potential. But in addition to the problems above, no one is making fun games that use it. I could go on and on but I'm supposed to be working right now lol. I'll just say that I envision a good combination of controllers and motion sensing. Let me hold a controller while playing Halo, and sway my body to peek around a corner. Something like that. Give me a reason to bark orders. I think part of the blame lies in the fact that gaming is hugely so risk-averse. The big guys with the moolah only want cookie cutter games in terms of creativity. I don't think it's that we can't, but that those who can aren't allowed. Hence why indie gaming is bursting at the seams ready to blow, if it isn't already.

 

I also think shovelware for new innovative hardware has to be limited. Sometimes it's necessary (like the NES) because it can kill the credibility of your product. It almost did with the Wii and may have.

 

OK I have to stop or I'll go on all day.



#5 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:55 PM

It's fine if it's optional, and i'd opt out of it. Making it a mandatory piece of equipment for your console to run is crap though. I understand some people enjoy it, but a majority do not, and i'm not bashing people who enjoy it in the slightest. All i'm saying is it's kind of like if you buy a blu ray player, spend $200 on it with every intention to watch a movie, and you open the box to the manual saying "You are all ready to go, as soon as you purchase the necessary cable for it to work, you can order it for $99 online!" I don't want to be forced into spending extra money for something I will never use just to make the console function properly. It should be an add-on accessory, not a necessity for operation. 

 

For me personally, when I get home from a long day of work, I don't want to stand in front of my console, wave my arms around and jump around just to play a video game. I want to sit back, kick up my feet, and use a controller to play whatever I want. If people want to do that, fine, but sell it separately. It's working fine now, they sell arcade consoles, standard consoles, and kinect consoles, because people want the option of having the equipment they want and not having to purchase the add-ons they don't want.


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#6 Jedi

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:57 PM

Problem is no one is utilizing it properly right now. Just like the Wii. It has such potential. But in addition to the problems above, no one is making fun games that use it. I could go on and on but I'm supposed to be working right now lol. I'll just say that I envision a good combination of controllers and motion sensing. Let me hold a controller while playing Halo, and sway my body to peek around a corner. Something like that. Give me a reason to bark orders. I think part of the blame lies in the fact that gaming is hugely so risk-averse. The big guys with the moolah only want cookie cutter games in terms of creativity. I don't think it's that we can't, but that those who can aren't allowed. Hence why indie gaming is bursting at the seams ready to blow, if it isn't already.

 

Mass Effect 3 was a game advertised as "Better with Kinect" in much the same way, that you could bark orders like "grenade" or "Kaden, go here", etc.  While I'll agree it's a great concept, the problem was that it was so poorly implemented that the delay between issuing the order and it's execution bordered on laughable.

 

Much easier to use the controller to throw the grenade or issue the order with one button than to issue the order and wait 3 seconds before the system realizes it was supposed to do something...


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#7 VM1138

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:31 PM

They are not stupid for doing this. Sony is doing something similar with game controls. You have no choice, really. Console gaming is huge and you only get three choices. That's how companies get away with screwing consumers.
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#8 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:33 PM

That's a very good point also, the reaction time is nothing compared to the command through buttons on a controller. It would be different once they iron that out, but it still requires you to yell at your television. On top of that, playing online and talking to friends kind of eliminates the voice command system unless you want to constantly step on the conversation by prompting verbal commands. Sometimes the wife is sleeping or if you have a baby in the house where constant speaking isn't ideal as well.



They are not stupid for doing this. Sony is doing something similar with game controls. You have no choice, really. Console gaming is huge and you only get three choices. That's how companies get away with screwing consumers.

And this. They are going to make their money regardless, probably off of me also. I will own a next gen console, it's just which one will be the lesser of three evils.

 

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#9 frankgrimes

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:47 AM

I owned a Kinect, played with it twice, and traded it in within the same week. Motion controlled gaming is NOT what the majority of gamers want, and I continue to wonder why they stress this so damn much. If this is the case, and the console won't function without motion controlled devices then I may look elsewhere and avoid Microsoft's console this time around. Something about being connected online with a camera on me at all times makes me nervous, i'm not paranoid but you can't tell me that MS can't link into it and watch you randomly if they want to. It's like when Aarons was renting out computers and taking photos of the people using them through their system when people weren't paying their bill. It's a violation of privacy, regardless if this is the intention of MS or not, it's intrusive. 

 


Exactly my point, manufactores would be wise to see the Wii success as what it was, something new and shiny once the shinyness of all the jumping around, gestures and thumb-controlling worn off, the sales dropped and dropped. So while I am sure, it is cool for partygames - which it is - it is nothing I want to play after long day when I am just looking for a little fun, playing something like Mario Card, hockeygame or whatever with my girlfriend. I really miss the days of "put your game in - press start  - ready", all these extra gimmicks are not needed I don't need a profile, harddisk, kinect, nunchako-controller or whatever, let me just play the game *g*

 

Internet on other side is even more useless, don't need all that crap. My old Xbox doesn't even have a harddisk, just 4 controllers and the basic version which really is enough for me.

 

Why not put all this energy into making the console as powerful as it can become?

 

 

 

It's
fine if it's optional, and i'd opt out of it. Making it a mandatory
piece of equipment for your console to run is crap though. I understand
some people enjoy it, but a majority do not, and i'm not bashing people
who enjoy it in the slightest. All i'm saying is it's kind of like if
you buy a blu ray player, spend $200 on it with every intention to watch
a movie, and you open the box to the manual saying "You are all ready
to go, as soon as you purchase the necessary cable for it to work, you
can order it for $99 online!" I don't want to be forced into spending
extra money for something I will never use just to make the console
function properly. It should be an add-on accessory, not a necessity for
operation. 

 

For me personally, when I get home from a
long day of work, I don't want to stand in front of my console, wave my
arms around and jump around just to play a video game. I want to sit
back, kick up my feet, and use a controller to play whatever I want. If
people want to do that, fine, but sell it separately. It's working fine
now, they sell arcade consoles, standard consoles, and kinect consoles,
because people want the option of having the equipment they want and not
having to purchase the add-ons they don't want.

 

Thats the point, if it is  indeed optionally the user can decide, if or not to use it. Something about having a camera watching me all the time while playing disturbs me and kinda reminds me of a show called "Big Brother" also I hardly trust Microsoft when it comes to privacy, so a think like that would be an absolute killer feature for the console itself. Thats why I did mention my doubts about them, being that stupid.

 

At the end there would be just more "cracked" consoles with the option to just play the damn (+ used ones), and not worry about all the other gimmicks. Happened with the Xbox and Ps 3 it will for sure happen with the Durango.

 

While the multitasking features sounds nice, I also don't need that why should I multitask when playing a game? Multitasking while gaming to me means - play - oh my handy is ringing - stop game, hardly having stuff like youtube, Netflix (don't even know what that is) or anythingl ike that on while gaming. I think Microsoft should focus on what has made the Xbox successful, great games on a good machine with EXTRA not mandatory gimmicks.

 

If both consoles are turning out to be that restricted I'll just buy a GTX 660, 680 (prices are going to fall whenever the 700series) hits, so yeah.


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#10 shoobiedoobin

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:27 PM

Don't worry about the big 3 screwing customers, they're screwing themselves too if they go through with some of these nutjob ideas that are floating around. if you require activation codes for all games, kiss console gaming goodbye. It will take awhile but the air strike will have been called in, all we'll have to do is wait and see it all go down.



#11 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:57 AM

Eliminating preowned games will destroy stores like Gamestop, which in the long run will damage the economy because the preowned gaming market is enormous. I really really hope they don't go this route, and to take it further, I really hope they aren't allowed to go this route and they realize how damaging this would be to companies that rely on preowned gaming to survive. 


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#12 IrishWing19

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:21 AM

Note: Rumour

 

according to this site http://www.geek.com/...inect-20130212/ M$ next console won't work = start without having your kinect plugged in and calibrated.  I know M$ is lately known for stupid things but honestly can they really be that stupid? I play games, just to play them I am not interested in jumping around, yelling and do some stupid gestures with my hands. When will M$ come to the conclusion that Kinect will not hold a candle to the Wii.

 

Also I find the discussion here http://www.gamefaqs....ox-360/65442319 laughfull at best, the guy doesn't even understand that its still an accessoire only difference is, this time it will be included in the Durango bundle.

 

Combine that with the rumours about required internet connection, no used games and other crap I refuse to believe that M$ would really be that stupid but then again, who knows, they really seem to be desperate now http://www.gamespot....ncement-6403894 guess what most people don't care about all these stupid gimmicks, they just want a powerful console to play games and not an entertainment hub, filled with netflix, youtube and whatever that's what tablets, smartphones and pcs are for.

 

Mind you still rumours, but I think the powers will be something like this:

 

Ps 4 >>>> Durango >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Wii U

 

so if Sony is playing their cards right, they could have a huge advantage this time.

 

It's the PS4 (or whatever it's called) that has the block on used games. As far as the Kinect goes, the next XBox may ship with it but nowhere does it say that it will be mandatory with every game, I imagine that status quo will remain and some game will have an option to use it and other developers will ignore it all together.

 

But an always on Internet connection is stupid, do they not remember the backlash Ubisoft got for their always on DRM?



#13 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:55 PM

I own a ton of arcade games, I won't reveal the number because it's borderline insane, but I have purchased a lot over the years. When I was moving and had no internet for 3 weeks about 60 of my arcade games would not work without an internet connection. Games I purchased and owned in full, had achievements unlocked for. I came to find out that there were licensing restrictions attached to these games and you can only be online to play them. It really is BS that you pay to own something and can't use it if you aren't connected online, this trend needs to stop.


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#14 frankgrimes

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:35 AM

It's the PS4 (or whatever it's called) that has the block on used games. As far as the Kinect goes, the next XBox may ship with it but nowhere does it say that it will be mandatory with every game, I imagine that status quo will remain and some game will have an option to use it and other developers will ignore it all together.

 

But an always on Internet connection is stupid, do they not remember the backlash Ubisoft got for their always on DRM?

 

Just search through the internet, if the rumors are true the system won't work if you don't calibrate it. The idea itself is like mentioned beyond stupid! Read somewhere, someone could just put a black scarf over it.

 

As for the used games market:

 

If I buy an overpriced game and decide I've had enough with it, I'd rather resell it to someone, also if I'll never connect a console to the damn internet so M$ will never know, if its an original or "used" game, tough luck for them :_) Anyway, nothing about the Durango so far is screaming "buy me" especially their quote about making an entertainment hub, which just happened to be a console" is worrying enough to not tough this.


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#15 TheXym

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:43 AM

I have no interest whatsoever in having a kinect for the Xbox. If they require it for games, that will be a severe diwner. I've dealt with too many people using Kinect for their mic and having to hear screaming at kids, obnoxiously loud crap music being blasted, and other sundry annoyances. Thankfully, spamming "Xbox open tray" into the mic has occassionally worked to rid a lobby of such annoyances.

As far as the used game market, that would be a very bad thing if they took steps to kill it. I would be OK with having to spend a few bucks for a new online pass for a used game. I did that for Mass Effect 3 so my son could use the other disc to play online with me.

Edited by TheXym, 18 February 2013 - 07:43 AM.

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#16 IrishWing19

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:46 AM

Just search through the internet, if the rumors are true the system won't work if you don't calibrate it. The idea itself is like mentioned beyond stupid! Read somewhere, someone could just put a black scarf over it.

 

As for the used games market:

 

If I buy an overpriced game and decide I've had enough with it, I'd rather resell it to someone, also if I'll never connect a console to the damn internet so M$ will never know, if its an original or "used" game, tough luck for them :_) Anyway, nothing about the Durango so far is screaming "buy me" especially their quote about making an entertainment hub, which just happened to be a console" is worrying enough to not tough this.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the idea of no second hand games. I regularly swap games with friends so we can all try something new, it'll remove that fun completely. I've borrowed the first game in a series, liked it and have then bought the sequel, it's a really short sighted policy which could impact long term game sales.
 

You're right that the Kinect will need to be calibrated (can't find anywhere that says if it's a one time thing out of the box or every time you play) but it will be at the developers discretion whether or not they use it for their games. Personally, I've no interest in motion tracking in games but if it doesn't get in the way of what I like to play I'm not going to care, calibrating the thing doesn't bother me too much. That being said, if they can come up with a cool or interesting use for Kinect, I'd give it a go and then move straight back to my controller.



#17 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:16 PM

I have no interest whatsoever in having a kinect for the Xbox. If they require it for games, that will be a severe diwner. I've dealt with too many people using Kinect for their mic and having to hear screaming at kids, obnoxiously loud crap music being blasted, and other sundry annoyances. Thankfully, spamming "Xbox open tray" into the mic has occassionally worked to rid a lobby of such annoyances.

As far as the used game market, that would be a very bad thing if they took steps to kill it. I would be OK with having to spend a few bucks for a new online pass for a used game. I did that for Mass Effect 3 so my son could use the other disc to play online with me.

I've encountered the same with the annoyances of excessive background noises, I never though to command their xbox to open tray verbally, that's hilarious and effective. Half the time people don't realize it's set to be their mic because it's the default setting when you first hook up the kinect unfortunately.

 

I thoroughly enjoy Mass Effect 3 online, I might try to link up with you sometime. I've sunk a ton of time into it and still really like it. 


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#18 TheXym

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:54 PM

I've encountered the same with the annoyances of excessive background noises, I never though to command their xbox to open tray verbally, that's hilarious and effective. Half the time people don't realize it's set to be their mic because it's the default setting when you first hook up the kinect unfortunately.
 
I thoroughly enjoy Mass Effect 3 online, I might try to link up with you sometime. I've sunk a ton of time into it and still really like it. 


Definitely hit me up. I'm grinding out the challenges, doing fairly well. I still need to lock some things down to solo gold. I've got a couple friends I play with regularly, if we don't have a full foursome, we'd definitely add you in. I usually fo silver pugs if I'm not with at least one friend, though with classes I haven't used much I'll drop to bronze for the first couple of times for challenges.
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