28 replies to this topic

[Nev]

But Jimmy d doesn't do much anymore. Plus he is 70+.

 

Sir Alex Ferguson is 71.  Man Utd are top of the EPL. 

 

As long as your still have the desire, and the health, age is just a number.

[Drake_Marcus]

It'd be a devastating loss if he moved on.  We can only pray he stays with the Wings for many years to come.

[sibiriak]

How do you know what Jimmy does and doesn't do for the Red Wings? Sure he's getting up there in age but he's younger than Bowman was when he was still working for the Wings.

 

The GM is evaluated on the performance of the organization as a whole, not just the performance of the top club. The fact that Holland and company have a farm club stocked with enough talent to battle for 1st in the conference while half the team is called up to fill in for the Wings is not going to be lost on Illitch.

 

The success of the farm team also showed in spades tonight, Tatar was one of if not the best player on the ice for either team. 

 

Do you honestly believe Holland is going to be fired?

I have to disagree with your bolded statement. In pro sports, the performance of the top club IS the performance of the organization. As a GM, you will get fired for not making the playoffs a few years in a row, even if your farm team wins a championship in every one of those years. If your top club lacks players, yet your farm system is bursting at the seams with talent, some kind of action needs to be taken, no?

[VM1138]

He was already offered a GM position, I don't think he has any interest in leaving the Wings.  In sports, we're so used to guys who are super competitive and always wanting to advance, but I think Nill has found what he's good at and is comfortable doing it.  He knows that if he's patient, he'll get the job in Detroit, so what difference does a few years make?

[FlashyG]

I have to disagree with your bolded statement. In pro sports, the performance of the top club IS the performance of the organization. As a GM, you will get fired for not making the playoffs a few years in a row, even if your farm team wins a championship in every one of those years. If your top club lacks players, yet your farm system is bursting at the seams with talent, some kind of action needs to be taken, no?

 

That's a bit of a strawman argument.

 

The performance of the Farm team will absolutely be reflected in the evaluation of a GM. 

 

If an AHL team is winning championships every year and none of the talent is being called up then the NHL team isn't being managed properly. But if your AHL team has consistently sucked while your NHL team was successful and for 1 season it reverses, thats not really that big of a deal. If anything it shows that more NHL success is on the horizon.

If that trend were to continue for several years he might get the axe, but that hasn't happened and given Hollands track record as a GM I don't expect it to.

[sibiriak]

That's a bit of a strawman argument.

 

The performance of the Farm team will absolutely be reflected in the evaluation of a GM. 

 

If an AHL team is winning championships every year and none of the talent is being called up then the NHL team isn't being managed properly. But if your AHL team has consistently sucked while your NHL team was successful and for 1 season it reverses, thats not really that big of a deal. If anything it shows that more NHL success is on the horizon.

If that trend were to continue for several years he might get the axe, but that hasn't happened and given Hollands track record as a GM I don't expect it to.

Again, it doesn't matter what happens in GR, as long as the NHL team is doing well. Different teams manage their personnel differently. Some develop their draft selections and then call them up, some call them up sooner rather than later, some rely more on signing free agents etc. As long as your main team is winning, no one is going to ask the GM any questions about the farm team. Results are paramount, how you got there doesn't matter at all. So Holland is doing to be evaluated by the fans, and, more importantly, by the ownership based solely on the Wings record. That is my point. How well the Griffins have done will not even be part of the coversation.

[FlashyG]

Again, it doesn't matter what happens in GR, as long as the NHL team is doing well. Different teams manage their personnel differently. Some develop their draft selections and then call them up, some call them up sooner rather than later, some rely more on signing free agents etc. As long as your main team is winning, no one is going to ask the GM any questions about the farm team. Results are paramount, how you got there doesn't matter at all. So Holland is doing to be evaluated by the fans, and, more importantly, by the ownership based solely on the Wings record. That is my point. How well the Griffins have done will not even be part of the coversation.

 

The Farm club obviously isn't a big part of a GM's evaluation but to say it doesn't matter to an Owner isn't exactly true either. (Fan evaluations are irrelevant as they don't have the power to replace a GM)

 

If a GM has stockpiled talent in the draft he won't be fired after 1 bad season if that talent is developing and producing on the farm team. He might be if they don't perform at the NHL level, but a championship AHL team can save the job of a GM with a poor producing NHL team. Look at Bob Gainey in 06, Steve Yzerman last year, and Brian Murray in 2010/11. All 3 missed the playoffs with a franchise that was expected to do well but all 3 teams had championship AHL teams. Not surprisingly all 3 GM's kept their jobs. 

[The Axe]

The Red Wings are all that matters. The Griffs are just breeding grounds for the big club. Sure, they want to win. But everyone in the organization is chasing Lord Stanley. Not the Memorial Cup.

[sibiriak]

The Farm club obviously isn't a big part of a GM's evaluation but to say it doesn't matter to an Owner isn't exactly true either. (Fan evaluations are irrelevant as they don't have the power to replace a GM)

 

If a GM has stockpiled talent in the draft he won't be fired after 1 bad season if that talent is developing and producing on the farm team. He might be if they don't perform at the NHL level, but a championship AHL team can save the job of a GM with a poor producing NHL team. Look at Bob Gainey in 06, Steve Yzerman last year, and Brian Murray in 2010/11. All 3 missed the playoffs with a franchise that was expected to do well but all 3 teams had championship AHL teams. Not surprisingly all 3 GM's kept their jobs. 

I would agree that a stocked farm system might be used as an excuse for an underperforming team's GM, but that excuse will not serve for very long. 1 season at most.