Healthy starters the problem, Not young replacements

[b.shanafan14 733]

I've been saying it since the season started, that as much of a patchwork lineup the Wings are icing these days, logic would dictate that their weakness lies in the young call-ups from Grand Rapids. Unfortunately, the consistent issue has been the play of our healthy starters. The play of guys like Lashoff and Tatar has been super consistent compared to White, Quincey, and Cleary. In fact, today's game recap article from MLive says it all:

"Veteran mistakes negate youthful spark Red Wings received, as surging Ducks skate away with 5-2 win"

The Wings are injured as much as I've ever seen them, and the guys that they are missing have left some serious holes in both scoring and defense, but their biggest problem every night is not the guys they are missing, or their young replacements, but they guys that would be in the lineup for better or worse, injuries or no. Its hard to say we lost because we were missing Datsyuk, Franzen, and Bertuzzi, when the two scorers from last night were young call-ups, Tatar has more points than Miller, White, Eaves, and Emmerton, and Andersson has more points than Abdelkader, Cleary, and Quincey.

The positive, this team has some great young players in the system that are hungry and ready for a chance. The negative, this team is spending too much cap-space on scrubs like Quincey, White, and Cleary to give those kids a shot with a lineup healthy enough for them to make a difference.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Honestly, after last night it's really hard to disagree with you on this. The kids from GR are alright.

[Red Crazy 201]

Agree. I think Kenny Holland needs to make some moves when we get healthy and make some room for these young guys on the roster. I am very impressed with Tatar.

[Richdg 267]

Hmmm.... So because our old guys are hurt-who hired them? We lost. Not because of the "great" young talent from GR. odd. we just played a game with all of our talent from GR and got smoked. Some have been beging for the young guys to come up and play more, and the old broken down to play less. well you are getting what you asked for. not pretty at all. This will ghet worse before it gets better. A lot worse. I hope some player changes are made very soon!

[amato 3,210]

Kronwall needs to step his game up. He's a big part of all our "veteran mistakes." Seems like at least a couple times a game he has a bad giveaway or takes a stupid penalty.. I'm not saying he's bad or anything, I like kronner as much anyone.. But he's been one of the biggest disappointments so far this season

[b.shanafan14 733]

Hmmm.... So because our old guys are hurt-who hired them? We lost. Not because of the "great" young talent from GR. odd. we just played a game with all of our talent from GR and got smoked. Some have been beging for the young guys to come up and play more, and the old broken down to play less. well you are getting what you asked for. not pretty at all. This will ghet worse before it gets better. A lot worse. I hope some player changes are made very soon!

The point wasn't that the GR kids are killing it and should all be brought up, nor was it that the injured players shouldn't have been signed. The point was that as bad as injuries have been this season, its the starters that aren't injured, veteran guys who we are paying substantial buck and giving substantial ice time that are the biggest problem. In other words, games like last night don't end in "damn, those GR kids aren't ready" or "I wish so-and-so wasn't injured", it ended in monstrous turn overs from guys like White, Kronwall, and Quincey, and uninspired play from Cleary and others.

Injuries (while definitely having an impact) and scabs aren't the most glaring problem, players that aren't injured and would still be in a healthy lineup are.

[evilmrt 636]

The problem is that Kenny and Babs both seem to be having a difficult time adapting to the "new" Wings reality. Holland takes most of the blame here, because he couldn't make the big signings, and so should have been playing "moneypuck" to ensure that he signed vets that would play well with GR kids, and traded away those pieces that didn't fit anymore. He didn't.

Babs on the other hand....still coaching like its last year. He's a great coach, but he's been slow to adapt in some ways so far. Cleary is a great example. Special teams are a ******* embarrassment.

In other words, games like last night don't end in "damn, those GR kids aren't ready" or "I wish so-and-so wasn't injured", it ended in monstrous turn overs from guys like White, Kronwall, and Quincey, and uninspired play from Cleary and others.

You just hit the nail on the head. Kenny and Babs keep expecting all the guys you just called out to step up and lead the GR kids, and they aren't. At some point they will have to stop trying the same thing over and over and shake things up.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Hmmm.... So because our old guys are hurt-who hired them? We lost. Not because of the "great" young talent from GR. odd. we just played a game with all of our talent from GR and got smoked. Some have been beging for the young guys to come up and play more, and the old broken down to play less. well you are getting what you asked for. not pretty at all. This will ghet worse before it gets better. A lot worse. I hope some player changes are made very soon!

You realize that we lost the game because of our vets right. Not only can they not score, guys like white, cleary , quincey, and kronner are coughing the puck up way too much. Go back and watch the goals anaheim scored, they were all direct results of our vets making a bad play, notthe rookies

[unsaddleddonald 357]

Hmmm.... So because our old guys are hurt-who hired them? We lost. Not because of the "great" young talent from GR. odd. we just played a game with all of our talent from GR and got smoked. Some have been beging for the young guys to come up and play more, and the old broken down to play less. well you are getting what you asked for. not pretty at all. This will ghet worse before it gets better. A lot worse. I hope some player changes are made very soon!

This is really just a poorly worded response that doesn't seem to have a point or go anywhere.....

Thank you Dan Cleary for all of those clutch playoff goals you have provided in the past, but injuries have caught up with you. You can't skate and you never get an opportunity to shoot.

Here is a positive: Cleary/Bert/White all have expiring contracts

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Hmmm.... So because our old guys are hurt-who hired them? We lost. Not because of the "great" young talent from GR. odd. we just played a game with all of our talent from GR and got smoked. Some have been beging for the young guys to come up and play more, and the old broken down to play less. well you are getting what you asked for. not pretty at all. This will ghet worse before it gets better. A lot worse. I hope some player changes are made very soon!

The talent from GR kept us in the game until the 3rd. Last nights loss rests mostly on Kronwall (sad to say) and White. They were both as I've heard here before, "hot garbage". You can't win games when your #1 Dman is playing like he's trying to impress the world and be Nick Sr and failing epically at it. It was also stated that Kronwall should stick to being Kronwall and that he should play like when Lids was here and just go about his business. How many Kronwallings have we seen this year?

This is really just a poorly worded response that doesn't seem to have a point or go anywhere.....

Thank you Dan Cleary for all of those clutch playoff goals you have provided in the past, but injuries have caught up with you. You can't skate and you never get an opportunity to shoot.

Here is a positive: Cleary/Bert/White all have expiring contracts

And thank god for that. Not so much on Tuzzi cause he's been really good for us the past couple years and he's a warrior, but I think for his sake, he might want to hang em up once his contract expires. I always respected Rafalski for knowing when to quit, as well as Brett Hull for doing the same and being honest and just saying he couldn't keep up with the kids anymore. Those 3 expiring also clears up full time roster spots for Lashoff, Tatar and Nyquist. I was also very impressed with Andersson and was ecstatic to see him get his first goal. That's what hard work gets you and I told my dad last year when he got called up that he was a hard worker that can forcheck and he's got good positioning, and that's what got his his 1st career goal.

[amato 3,210]

This is really just a poorly worded response that doesn't seem to have a point or go anywhere.....

Thank you Dan Cleary for all of those clutch playoff goals you have provided in the past, but injuries have caught up with you. You can't skate and you never get an opportunity to shoot.

Here is a positive: Cleary/Bert/White all have expiring contracts

I'm pretty sure Bert's still signed thru next season.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

You realize that we lost the game because of our vets right. Not only can they not score, guys like white, cleary , quincey, and kronner are coughing the puck up way too much. Go back and watch the goals anaheim scored, they were all direct results of our vets making a bad play, notthe rookies

If not for those horrific cough ups, the momentum probably stays on the Wings' side and we've got 8 wins, not 7. Tatar and Andersson were excellent. And anyone who blames Howard for the loss, once again, just watch the giveaways on the game tape. Pathetic job from our veteran D last night.

I'm pretty sure Bert's still signed thru next season.

Ya he is, but he may as someone stated with the 35+ contract, stay on the LTIR if his back never seems to get better and retire after his contract ends a la Lapierre.

[amato 3,210]

If not for those horrific cough ups, the momentum probably stays on the Wings' side and we've got 8 wins, not 7. Tatar and Andersson were excellent. And anyone who blames Howard for the loss, once again, just watch the giveaways on the game tape. Pathetic job from our veteran D last night.

Ya he is, but he may as someone stated with the 35+ contract, stay on the LTIR if his back never seems to get better and retire after his contract ends a la Lapierre.

Ah gotcha.. Yea I could see that. I hope he gets better tho, I like Bert. Sure he's getting older and all that but for what we pay him, he's well worth it.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Ah gotcha.. Yea I could see that. I hope he gets better tho, I like Bert. Sure he's getting older and all that but for what we pay him, he's well worth it.

Me too. Tuzzi has been awesome. s***, his first game back after missing the start of the year he had what? 2 goals? I also love his nasty shootout goals and then the expression on his face of a kid trying to hide that he just did something bad. Good times.

[amato 3,210]

Me too. Tuzzi has been awesome. s***, his first game back after missing the start of the year he had what? 2 goals? I also love his nasty shootout goals and then the expression on his face of a kid trying to hide that he just did something bad. Good times.

Todd "saucy hands" Bertuzzi.

[Guest The Axe]

The problem is that Kenny and Babs both seem to be having a difficult time adapting to the "new" Wings reality. Holland takes most of the blame here, because he couldn't make the big signings, and so should have been playing "moneypuck" to ensure that he signed vets that would play well with GR kids, and traded away those pieces that didn't fit anymore. He didn't.

Babs on the other hand....still coaching like its last year. He's a great coach, but he's been slow to adapt in some ways so far. Cleary is a great example. Special teams are a ******* embarrassment.

You just hit the nail on the head. Kenny and Babs keep expecting all the guys you just called out to step up and lead the GR kids, and they aren't. At some point they will have to stop trying the same thing over and over and shake things up.

These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil

Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil

Sammy = 3 mil

Monster = 1.75 mil

Cleary = 2 mil

Tootoo = 1.8 mil

Colo = 2 mil

Huskins = .75 mil

White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)

Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)

Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)

Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)

Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)

Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)

McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

[canadian wings fan 305]

Berts a great lockeroom guy to. Lets all hope he gets healthy soon

[Guest mjtm77]

These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil

Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil

Sammy = 3 mil

Monster = 1.75 mil

Cleary = 2 mil

Tootoo = 1.8 mil

Colo = 2 mil

Huskins = .75 mil

White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)

Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)

Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)

Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)

Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)

Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)

McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

are you on crack?

[Guest The Axe]

are you on crack?

What dont you like?

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil

Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil

Sammy = 3 mil

Monster = 1.75 mil

Cleary = 2 mil

Tootoo = 1.8 mil

Colo = 2 mil

Huskins = .75 mil

White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)

Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)

Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)

Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)

Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)

Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)

McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

What happens when the kids want raises? Throw them away? Perry, Parise and Suter are not worth 9 mil per. None of them. Parise and Perry 7 max and Suter 5.5 max. Especially with the cap going down. There's a reason that Minnesota has no depth and that's cause anyone on their team with skill makes 6-7.5 mil per and they signed a fresh off the boat rookie to 3.25 mil. their GM wears clown shoes and his team sucks ass.

[amato 3,210]

These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil

Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil

Sammy = 3 mil

Monster = 1.75 mil

Cleary = 2 mil

Tootoo = 1.8 mil

Colo = 2 mil

Huskins = .75 mil

White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)

Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)

Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)

Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)

Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)

Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)

McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

Funny how you claim playing a sane ken holland with a completely insane scenario. There's too much wrong to say it all but this team would probably not make the playoffs.... With everyone we have now healthy I think we're much better off.

[puckbags 863]

These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil

Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil

Sammy = 3 mil

Monster = 1.75 mil

Cleary = 2 mil

Tootoo = 1.8 mil

Colo = 2 mil

Huskins = .75 mil

White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)

Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)

Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)

Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)

Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)

Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)

McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

This is like the 5th time I've explained this to you..Holland went at both of these guys with an open check book. They were not going to come to Detroit..end of story..it has nothing to do with the money. Get this through your head and quit posting these stupid lineups that involve Suter and Parise.

[Guest The Axe]

This is like the 5th time I've explained this to you..Holland went at both of these guys with an open check book. They were not going to come to Detroit..end of story..it has nothing to do with the money. Get this through your head and quit posting these stupid lineups that involve Suter and Parise.

Thats not the way I remember it going down.

[puckbags 863]

Thats not the way I remember it going down.

Clearly you don't because you keep posting lineups with these guys on the team when they already play for another team.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Mrs. Parise and Mrs. Suter had everything to do with the destination that the Thunderbuddies ended up in, and that's Minnesota. End of story. Perry could test the market this summer, but not sure if he'd end up here. I'd like to see him or Getzlaf, but they can still re-sign with the Ducks before 1 July. I'd like Iginla as well and I personally think he's our most realistic target.