Healthy starters the problem, Not young replacements

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

No clue how Dan Cleary earned an NHL roster spot. The guy is worthless. He's slower than ever, can't complete a crisp pass to save his life. And he loses about 90% of his puck battles. I mean I know we have a lot of guys out right now. But id seriously rather call up another griffen then have to deal with a liability on the ice like Cleary

[Guest The Axe]

Im just preparing for Cleary, Howard, and Filppula to be re-signed for 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5 mil. Then we try and lowball Perry and say we dont have enough room to pay you what youre worth. You can bank on that happening.

[puckbags 863]

Im just preparing for Cleary, Howard, and Filppula to be re-signed for 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5 mil. Then we try and lowball Perry and say we dont have enough room to pay you what youre worth. You can bank on that happening.

Cleary I don't care about..Jimmy is worth 3.5 and Flip will be in the 3.75 - 4 mil range.Perfectly normal salaries for guys of their age and skill level.

[Guest Crymson]

Cleary is horrific.

[puckbags 863]

Cleary is horrific.

Sucks to see a guy like him start to fail like this..always loved the guy and he's done alot for this team but its time to move on.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil

Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil

Sammy = 3 mil

Monster = 1.75 mil

Cleary = 2 mil

Tootoo = 1.8 mil

Colo = 2 mil

Huskins = .75 mil

White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)

Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)

Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)

Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)

Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)

Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)

McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

ah, doesn't Tatar have the same amount of goals as Perry?

[Buppy 1,720]

I agree that the kids have filled in admirably, but I'll still take Datsyuk, Franzen, Helm, and Smith over Tatar, Nyquist, Andersson, and Lashoff. Far, far better chance to overcome our mistakes with the first group.

And I'll take depth in the minors over whatever marginal difference those kids might make over whomever else they might replace. I'm thinking if we had Sheahan, Ferraro, Pare, and Almqvist as call-ups right now, we might not be so happy.

[ltgator333 3]

I'm going to quot my wife and say that in last nights game,you could tell who wanted it and who was a mill fat cat.the boys from GR were making the plays and the fat cats were giving it away.

[Richdg 267]

These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil

Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil

Sammy = 3 mil

Monster = 1.75 mil

Cleary = 2 mil

Tootoo = 1.8 mil

Colo = 2 mil

Huskins = .75 mil

White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)

Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)

Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)

Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)

Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)

Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)

McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

Axe you and I agree that we need to make some moves. but you have to have a better understanding on who can be moved and what value they truely have. For example: Kronwall has a full NTC. We can't trade him untill after the 2016 season IIRC. Even then it is to a team on a player provided list. Franzen with his bad contract has very little value. maybe a 2/3 round pick at max. He is signed untill he is 40/41 years old, and the cap hit remains regardless if he plays or not. Filppula is a UFA after this year, thus lowering his value. Suter and parise are gone, get over it.

Yes we need to rebuild/retool. That is clear to all-that want to admit it. But it isn't a one year thing either. it will take 2-3 years to change over the roster. 7-8 guys per year is a lot of change to begin with. But first we have to hope our braintrust realizes this, and that "injuries" are not the only problem.

Cleary I don't care about..Jimmy is worth 3.5 and Flip will be in the 3.75 - 4 mil range.Perfectly normal salaries for guys of their age and skill level.

I would love to get Howard and Fil to resign so cheap. Hudler got 4 million per, and Fil is a much better player than Hudler. Even with the reductions in the cap, Fil will get 5+ million per year. Howard will also be ion the 5 million per range.

[Red Crazy 201]

Cleary I don't care about..Jimmy is worth 3.5 and Flip will be in the 3.75 - 4 mil range.Perfectly normal salaries for guys of their age and skill level.

Pay Jimmy what he's worth. Flip to me is a player that I would deal in a package to get a d-man or a sniper if we are in the hunt at this years deadline. He is not a bad two way player but he will not shoot the puck. He might be the only guy that would bring us value in a trade and he is replaceable by Nyquist for less money.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Resign Flip for 4 million, contingent that he has more than 200 shots in the year.

[FlashyG 1,799]

What dont you like?

Where to start...I'm assuming to do this you've gone back in time to last years Free Agency period and not signed anyone of the guys that we did. Conceding that here are some problems I have with your roster.

1. A goaltending tandem that was average in the AHL, led by a 21 year old with 1 game of NHL experience and backed up by a guy who should be playing for Toledo.
2. over 40% of our cap space spent on 3 players, none of which worth anywhere near 9 million dollars a season.
3. No depth whatsoever...every injury would require a FA signing, which we couldn't do because of lack of cap flexibility.
4. What happened to half the roster? you can only buy out 2 guys, did Abdelkader, Eaves, Quincey, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Miller, White, Kindl and Mursak all retire

[Guest The Axe]

Axe you and I agree that we need to make some moves. but you have to have a better understanding on who can be moved and what value they truely have. For example: Kronwall has a full NTC. We can't trade him untill after the 2016 season IIRC. Even then it is to a team on a player provided list. Franzen with his bad contract has very little value. maybe a 2/3 round pick at max. He is signed untill he is 40/41 years old, and the cap hit remains regardless if he plays or not. Filppula is a UFA after this year, thus lowering his value. Suter and parise are gone, get over it.

Yes we need to rebuild/retool. That is clear to all-that want to admit it. But it isn't a one year thing either. it will take 2-3 years to change over the roster. 7-8 guys per year is a lot of change to begin with. But first we have to hope our braintrust realizes this, and that "injuries" are not the only problem.

I would love to get Howard and Fil to resign so cheap. Hudler got 4 million per, and Fil is a much better player than Hudler. Even with the reductions in the cap, Fil will get 5+ million per year. Howard will also be ion the 5 million per range.

Good analysis. Facts are facts, so yah, my proposed scenario is bogus. But the concept isnt. We are overpaying a lot of players who arent adding what the team needs. We need to grab a few difference makers, even if they come at a high price.

Where to start...I'm assuming to do this you've gone back in time to last years Free Agency period and not signed anyone of the guys that we did. Conceding that here are some problems I have with your roster.

• A goaltending tandem that was average in the AHL, led by a 21 year old with 1 game of NHL experience and backed up by a guy who should be playing for Toledo.
• over 40% of our cap space spent on 3 players, none of which worth anywhere near 9 million dollars a season.
• No depth whatsoever...every injury would require a FA signing, which we couldn't do because of lack of cap flexibility.
• What happened to half the roster? you can only buy out 2 guys, did Abdelkader, Eaves, Quincey, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Miller, White, Kindl and Mursak all retire

I assumed we were back just before the bertuzzi signing.

[Carman 387]

These are my sentiments. Holland needed to go after Suter and Parise with an open checkbook. 9 mil per for both sound ridiculous? Well, we are almost paying 20 mil to a bunch of guys we get little return out of anyways.

Quincey = 3.7 mil

Bertuzzi = 1.75 mil

Sammy = 3 mil

Monster = 1.75 mil

Cleary = 2 mil

Tootoo = 1.8 mil

Colo = 2 mil

Huskins = .75 mil

White = 1.75 mil

Thats 18.5 mil.

Oh you screwed us, Axe. We are over the cap now.

Wrong.

This assumes we could play a sane Ken Holland from the Bertuzzi signing forward.

I trade Filppula, Kronwall, and Franzen for Cory Perry and sign Perry to 9 mil per.

Parise (9) - Dats (6.75) - Perry (9)

Zetterberg (6.25) - Helm (3) - Brunner (2)

Tartar (1) - Andersson (1) - Nyquist (1)

Sheahan (.75) - Emmerton (1) - Ferarro (.75)

Jarnkrok (.75) - Next GR guy (.75)

Suter (9) - Ericsson (3)

Smith (2) - Lashoff (1)

Sproul (.75) - Ouelette (.75)

Huskins (.75)

Mrazek (1)

McCollum (.75)

62 mil.

Oh god that's worse than our current team, without the injuries. What the hell kind of depth would that team have if Suter, Parise Datsyuk, or Zetterberg go down? Not to mention we'd have two rookie goalies, and only two penalty killers on the back end. Yikes.

[puckbags 863]

Oh god that's worse than our current team, without the injuries. What the hell kind of depth would that team have if Suter, Parise Datsyuk, or Zetterberg go down? Not to mention we'd have two rookie goalies, and only two penalty killers on the back end. Yikes.

Turn on Xbox>>> load up NHL 13 >>> Make 10 trades >>> Post lineup on LGW. Seems about how he comes up with this stuff. Is there still an ignore button on this site?

[Guest The Axe]

Oh god that's worse than our current team, without the injuries. What the hell kind of depth would that team have if Suter, Parise Datsyuk, or Zetterberg go down? Not to mention we'd have two rookie goalies, and only two penalty killers on the back end. Yikes.

Wed have 5 allstars again, at least!!!

[DetroitRedWings1993 49]

The Axe is right about one thing: we're carrying a lot of dead weight. Cleary's a decent guy and all, but it's time to get rid of him. He provides absolutely nothing consistently. Bertuzzi hasn't had a chance to earn another contract being as he's been hurt, so I'm going to reserve judgement on him. Quincey should already be gone. But, due to injuries, we need a plug like him. Smitty and Colo should return before the trade deadline. Assuming both come back and stay healthy, I think it's time we either dealt or bought Quincey out. He's gotten progressively worse since we acquired him. Everyone thought this was a great move when we picked him up. Now, he's the goat. Funny how that works.

But, Holland sleeps through the deadline for the last few years, so my guess is that nothing changes and we either limp into the playoffs and get embarassed all over again or just miss it altogether and spend the summer screaming for change...and receiving none. Another summer just like last summer, if you ask me. The future just doesn't look very bright from that perspective. The GR kids look OK, though. Too bad we're headed for the cellar until they can prop the team back up.

Edited February 21, 2013 by DetroitRedWings1993

[IllinoisRedWingsFan 49]

No clue how Dan Cleary earned an NHL roster spot. The guy is worthless. He's slower than ever, can't complete a crisp pass to save his life. And he loses about 90% of his puck battles. I mean I know we have a lot of guys out right now. But id seriously rather call up another griffen then have to deal with a liability on the ice like Cleary

At least he's a UFA next year.