90 replies to this topic

[Euro_Twins]

I'm not panicking....

 

 

 

As for the struggling power play, Babcock said, “I thought Samuelsson was impressive on the power play, he really shot the puck, so we'll put him on that first unit and get them shooting and getting it back.''

 

 

.... OK. Now I'm panicking.

 

Do shots against the glass somehow translate to goals? lol I don't mind giving him a couple games, he has been injured and only has played three games so far split between the start of the season and now. Soon he'll be logo hunting again and who knows maybe he will accidentally score too

[Carman]

Don't see why people are down on Samuelsson, he's good defensively, and has the same number of points as Cleary in 12 less games. Sammy will be fine if he can stay healthy.

 

Cleary is a major issue right now, there isn't one positive thing he does for this team on the ice right now.

[58Miles2Joe]

[CrimsonFlame]

One thing that really bugs me.  I don't know if no body has ever noticed but we NEVER EVER have ANYBODY in the slot.  Ever.  We always have two dmen back at the blue line corners and a forward behind the net.  And that's it.  The other two forwards are never even on the screen. 

 

Triangle offense only works if someone is actually in the slot to you know shoot the puck at the net. 

 

And I personally hate triangle offense anyway.  I'd much rather just crash the net every damn time.  That's how you get scoring chances. 

[Euro_Twins]

Don't see why people are down on Samuelsson, he's good defensively, and has the same number of points as Cleary in 12 less games. Sammy will be fine if he can stay healthy.

 

Cleary is a major issue right now, there isn't one positive thing he does for this team on the ice right now.

 

It's become absolutely mind numbing to even think about cleary anymore, it's nice to have sammy back so I can pick on him instead I like the guy, but we'll see what he can do for us

[beachwing]

All of you experts here, please fix our PP...
Serious question.... Go?

It seems the majority feel it can be fixed by coaching...if thats the case, do those same players on PP suck as the majority here states?

Again, not being a smart ass, curious to see the opinions and perspective.

Edited by beachwing, 18 February 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[rick zombo]

One thing that really bugs me.  I don't know if no body has ever noticed but we NEVER EVER have ANYBODY in the slot.  Ever.  We always have two dmen back at the blue line corners and a forward behind the net.  And that's it.  The other two forwards are never even on the screen. 
 
Triangle offense only works if someone is actually in the slot to you know shoot the puck at the net. 
 
And I personally hate triangle offense anyway.  I'd much rather just crash the net every damn time.  That's how you get scoring chances. 

Picture this: 3 wings forwards crash the net. Kronwall or White blast one from the point. Shot blocked (because the D hasn't been getting pucks through the lane) then a 3-on-2 or 2-on-1 heading the other way?

It all comes back to s***ty defense.

In 2008, the Wings were always at the net. They had no sniper then either. The difference was that Lidstrom and Rafalski were two of the best D men in the league at getting pucks on net.

[Euro_Twins]

All of you experts here, please fix our PP...
Serious question.... Go?

It seems the majority feel it can be fixed by coaching...if thats the case, do those same players on PP suck as the majority here states?

Again, not being a smart ass, curious to see the opinions and perspective.

 

Well removing Cleary would be a great start, get Brunner off the point and put him in the slot, Kronwall and Sammy can work the points and zetterberg or Datsyuk can feed Brunner.

 

as long as cleary goes down in gametime minutes I'll be happy

[The Axe]

Is Cleary the joke?

Yes. The misspellings crack me up.

[rrasco]

Clearly cleary is the problem.

[mackel]

Yes. The misspellings crack me up.

If that doesn't get the old #firstworldproblems nothing does!

[esteef]

If he went chasing the flavor of the month every year like San Jose does you'd be happy.  BUT look at San Jose, they have depleated their prospects to the point where their prosepect are LAST in the NHL.  But hey, they always seem to land the hot commodity.  A hell of a price to pay.  Mortgage the future for the flavor of the month..  LOL

 

We could probably get a top D man for Nyquist, Tartar, Smith, etc.

 

No thanks.

 

You mean the same San Jose team who knocked the Wings out of the playoffs two years straight and are currently beating us in the standings?  That team?  Unfortunately actual results don't support your "prospects" theory. And what the Sharks are doing has zero bearing on what Kenny ISN'T doing.

 

esteef

[FlashyG]

All of you experts here, please fix our PP...
Serious question.... Go?

It seems the majority feel it can be fixed by coaching...if thats the case, do those same players on PP suck as the majority here states?

Again, not being a smart ass, curious to see the opinions and perspective.

 

I don't think the problem is the personnel as much as its how they are used and the system they follow. If they are hellbent on using the same system they have been then I'd rather see 2 defenceman on each unit with our scoring forwards spread out better so we don't have all of them playing on unit 1, with Flip stuck with Cleary and a rotating cast of grinders. I'd rather they just roll out the top 2 scoring lines than their current PP lines, they probably wont score any more but it should stop all the shorthanded goals we give up. If they want to keep the same units together than I think they could more effectively use the first unit. 

 

I'll describe what I typically see when our first unit is on the ice.

 

To get into the zone Kronwall or Brunner will carry the puck to center ice while Datsyuk will sweep behind them, they will drop the puck back to him and he'll skate right through the middle and between their 2 PK forwards, then dump the puck off to either Kronwall or Brunner at the point.

 

Datsyuk will then set up along the boards on one side with Zetterberg setting up opposite him, while Franzen goes to the front of the net. Kronwall or Brunner will then have 2 options with the puck because generally the PK is right on top of them preventing any sort of a shot. They can either move the puck between themselves or move it down the boards to Datsyuk or Zetterberg. When it gets to the boards the PK takes away the cross ice pass and makes Zetterberg or Datsyuk attempt to either skate the puck to open up another pass, or forces them to move it back to the defence again. This happens over and over again until eventually a bad pass is made or a shot opens up that usually goes wide or is blocked. All too often when the shot misses the Wings don't retrieve it and it ends up being shot down the ice starting the whole process over. Worse still is when the shot gets blocked we have one of our 2 worst defensive players attempting to break up an odd man rush and we all collectively hold our breath hoping to not give up a shorthanded goal.

 

I think having both Datsyuk and Zetterberg on opposite sides of the rink makes us much easier to defend, why not have them both work the puck on the same side of the ice with Franzen in front. No one defenceman is going to be able to defend both Datsyuk and Zetterberg so chances are if they stick to their box one of them is going to be able to skate right into the slot for a scoring chance. The only options the defence would have is to either collapse a forward down low to help his defender cover the 2, or leave Franzen alone in front. I think most PK's would move a forward down as leaving a man alone in front would be a recipe for disaster. When the forward collapses that leaves either Kronwall or Brunner open to move down for a great one time opportunity with a screen in front of the net. It also leaves our 2 best players down low to retrieve a shot that misses or Franzen in a 1 on 1 in front of the net on a rebound.

[kipwinger]

I have been discussing the Wings "problems" for a couple days now with various other hockey people and I've come to several conclusions.  Essentially, I believe that the Wings have two types of problems, legitimate ones and illegitimate ones.  Illegitimate problems are those stemming from the injury bug basically.  Not scoring goals when down, special teams, and an over worked goalie are illegitimate problems.  By that I mean they'll be fixed as guys get healthy.  Legitimate problems are those that cannot be addressed using the "wait and see" approach.  First, I think we need a top pair shutdown defenseman.  Kronwall plays better when he's got a reliable, defensively responsible, partner.  Plus, while Ericsson is playing good this year, but I don't think anyone can tell me that they wouldn't rather have him as the shutdown guy on the second pair.  One top pair shutdown guy would go a long way toward solidifying the defense corps as you'd have Kronwall-Player X, Smith-Ericsson, White/Kindl/Quincey-Lashoff/Huskins/Colaiacovo. 

 

Next legitimate problem (IMO), Babcock needs to find line combos that work and stick with them.  I know that this one dovetails with the injuries, but here I'm talking more about identifying deserving players and matching them with complimentary players in order to maximize effectiveness across the line.  If Tatar is playing good, then leave him in, but make sure that you put him with guys that compliment his play.  Same for the top lines.  As I've stated before, You aren't maximizing anyone's game by sticking them with guys with similar skill sets, or asking players to be something they aren't.  Don't rest your success on whether or not Valtteri Filppula will somehow decide to start shooting more because he probably won't.  Put Flip with a guy who does shoot a lot and you're maximizing his skill set.  Essentially, let players play the games that are in their wheelhouse.  Remember when Babs put Datsyuk on the wing at the beginning of the season?  That's what I"m talking about.  Don't do stuff like that. 

 

A healthy roster will fix a lot.  The addition of a big minute, shutdown defender (who cares if he can score or not) will fix a lot more.  And finally, Babs' coming to terms with the roster he has, and not the one he wishes he had, will do the rest. 

 

We're not in bad shape. 

[LeftWinger]

Red Wings look to eliminate costly mistakes..... - Detroit News

 

http://www.detroitne...|text|FRONTPAGE

 

 

Damn! I sure was hoping that this article was about actaully eliminating COSTLY mistakes...like a few contracts! *Cough Cough* Franzine, *Cough* Quincey *Cough Cough*

I have been discussing the Wings "problems" for a couple days now with various other hockey people and I've come to several conclusions.  Essentially, I believe that the Wings have two types of problems, legitimate ones and illegitimate ones.  Illegitimate problems are those stemming from the injury bug basically.  Not scoring goals when down, special teams, and an over worked goalie are illegitimate problems.  By that I mean they'll be fixed as guys get healthy.  Legitimate problems are those that cannot be addressed using the "wait and see" approach.  First, I think we need a top pair shutdown defenseman.  Kronwall plays better when he's got a reliable, defensively responsible, partner.  Plus, while Ericsson is playing good this year, but I don't think anyone can tell me that they wouldn't rather have him as the shutdown guy on the second pair.  One top pair shutdown guy would go a long way toward solidifying the defense corps as you'd have Kronwall-Player X, Smith-Ericsson, White/Kindl/Quincey-Lashoff/Huskins/Colaiacovo. 

 

Next legitimate problem (IMO), Babcock needs to find line combos that work and stick with them.  I know that this one dovetails with the injuries, but here I'm talking more about identifying deserving players and matching them with complimentary players in order to maximize effectiveness across the line.  If Tatar is playing good, then leave him in, but make sure that you put him with guys that compliment his play.  Same for the top lines.  As I've stated before, You aren't maximizing anyone's game by sticking them with guys with similar skill sets, or asking players to be something they aren't.  Don't rest your success on whether or not Valtteri Filppula will somehow decide to start shooting more because he probably won't.  Put Flip with a guy who does shoot a lot and you're maximizing his skill set.  Essentially, let players play the games that are in their wheelhouse.  Remember when Babs put Datsyuk on the wing at the beginning of the season?  That's what I"m talking about.  Don't do stuff like that. 

 

A healthy roster will fix a lot.  The addition of a big minute, shutdown defender (who cares if he can score or not) will fix a lot more.  And finally, Babs' coming to terms with the roster he has, and not the one he wishes he had, will do the rest. 

 

We're not in bad shape. 

 

Well since Holland or Babcock won't address any of these problems you listed (or your solutions) then Yes, yes we are in REAL bad shape...

[Shaman464]

To those who say don't be down on Sammy, because Cleary is worse.. When the Wings have players like Tartar and Nyquist in GR and these two useless fossils taking up oxygen on the big club, there is a problem. This year should have been the youth movement, not the reunion tour.

[CrimsonFlame]

To those who say don't be down on Sammy, because Cleary is worse.. When the Wings have players like Tartar and Nyquist in GR and these two useless fossils taking up oxygen on the big club, there is a problem. This year should have been the youth movement, not the reunion tour.

 

Well its hard to be down on a guy that has barely played.

[The Axe]

To those who say don't be down on Sammy, because Cleary is worse.. When the Wings have players like Tartar and Nyquist in GR and these two useless fossils taking up oxygen on the big club, there is a problem. This year should have been the youth movement, not the reunion tour.

The good new is Sammy and Bert are signed up next year too!! All we gotta do is bring back Cleary now. Who needs young, fast, exciting players? Overrated.

[LeftWinger]

The good new is Sammy and Bert are signed up next year too!! All we gotta do is bring back Cleary now. Who needs young, fast, exciting players? Overrated.

 

I agree!  With out two amnesty buyouts, they should buyout Bert and Sammy...and no way should Cleary be re-sigened...I like Miller but again, the kids are ready, I think Sheahan is ready to fill MIller's spot, but I will miss him.  IMO, Mursak should be let to walk as well.  I am still for trading Fil, but it won't hurt is he is re-signed...So without trading Fil, that opens 5 spots up (after Brunner is re-signed.) to bring up the kids and sign a couple of FA's...

 

on the back end is where the panic is and the major changes are needed!  They only FA's that should be re-signed are Smith, Lashoff and Huskins (he makes a solid #6-7 d-man.)  I am letting White go, he just doesn't have it anymore without Lidstrom and we are stuck with Cola since noone will wnat him via trade.  Quincey should be dealt for whatever we can get in return (won't be a 1st that is for sure!) and the Kindl project is over, Huskins is a better 6/7 guy...So we have Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, Cola and Lashoff left. That leaves room for 2 UFA defensemen to come in and take over the #1/2 slot. Kronner is just better at #3. One of those UFA's has GOT to be a legit #1....no ifs, ands or buts. Money, no object. Unfortunately, there are no top tier UFA's available, unless you count Visnovsky or Scuderi...I personally would love to see Douglas Murray here. Also, while I do not believe the Wings will tank enough to land Seth Jones, but I can see them having a legit shot at Pulock and that is the guy Holland should draft, not Hagg.  I would also love to see DeKeyser forego his Senior year and sign here, so next year to D looks like this:

 

Murray - Ericsson

Kronwall - Smith

Lashoff - Dekeyser

Huskins/Cola

 

...and Pulock to our growing prospects and they look like this: Ouellet, Sproul, Backman, McKee, DeHaas and some others...Add Pulock to that list and the future of the D looks tons better.

 

...sorry, didn't mean to turn this post into a "what to do in the off season response" but it just goes to show my level of panic right now...

[The Axe]

 
I agree!  With out two amnesty buyouts, they should buyout Bert and Sammy...and no way should Cleary be re-sigened...I like Miller but again, the kids are ready, I think Sheahan is ready to fill MIller's spot, but I will miss him.  IMO, Mursak should be let to walk as well.  I am still for trading Fil, but it won't hurt is he is re-signed...So without trading Fil, that opens 5 spots up (after Brunner is re-signed.) to bring up the kids and sign a couple of FA's...
 
on the back end is where the panic is and the major changes are needed!  They only FA's that should be re-signed are Smith, Lashoff and Huskins (he makes a solid #6-7 d-man.)  I am letting White go, he just doesn't have it anymore without Lidstrom and we are stuck with Cola since noone will wnat him via trade.  Quincey should be dealt for whatever we can get in return (won't be a 1st that is for sure!) and the Kindl project is over, Huskins is a better 6/7 guy...So we have Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, Cola and Lashoff left. That leaves room for 2 UFA defensemen to come in and take over the #1/2 slot. Kronner is just better at #3. One of those UFA's has GOT to be a legit #1....no ifs, ands or buts. Money, no object. Unfortunately, there are no top tier UFA's available, unless you count Visnovsky or Scuderi...I personally would love to see Douglas Murray here. Also, while I do not believe the Wings will tank enough to land Seth Jones, but I can see them having a legit shot at Pulock and that is the guy Holland should draft, not Hagg.  I would also love to see DeKeyser forego his Senior year and sign here, so next year to D looks like this:
 
Murray - Ericsson
Kronwall - Smith
Lashoff - Dekeyser
Huskins/Cola
 
...and Pulock to our growing prospects and they look like this: Ouellet, Sproul, Backman, McKee, DeHaas and some others...Add Pulock to that list and the future of the D looks tons better.
 
...sorry, didn't mean to turn this post into a "what to do in the off season response" but it just goes to show my level of panic right now...

Kronwall, Lashoff, Abdelkader, and Cleary are the biggest minus players right now. Kindl is a +4. Quincey is a +7. Piling on these guys makes no sense.