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DetroitRedWings1993

Holland looking around

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i just love how everyone thinks our team is loaded, even without the injuries, LOL keep smokin

They are the Detroit Red Wings, owned by Mike Illitch so unless you have some stake into them they are not your or mine team :-)

On a serious note, I expect Holland to look around because let's face the truth the guy has to hit a homerun soon if the Wings want to stay relevant for top UFAs.

Normally you are giving from a position of strengh to fix a position of weakness, this team as better at the offensive side of the game so Holland has to look at that and fix the defense that way. Hopefully no one is honestly thinking trading our underperforming playeres is going to bring in a guy like JayBo ( I still want Pietrangelo next year bad).

Also the Wings prospect pool is not that impressive, guys like Nyquist, Smith are standing out for a reason but the rest of pack is pretty much high risk high reward and not exactly guaranteed future NHL stars.

Maybe try Filpula/Kronwall + 2 for Edler from Vancouver?

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They are the Detroit Red Wings, owned by Mike Illitch so unless you have some stake into them they are not your or mine team :-)

On a serious note, I expect Holland to look around because let's face the truth the guy has to hit a homerun soon if the Wings want to stay relevant for top UFAs.

Normally you are giving from a position of strengh to fix a position of weakness, this team as better at the offensive side of the game so Holland has to look at that and fix the defense that way. Hopefully no one is honestly thinking trading our underperforming playeres is going to bring in a guy like JayBo ( I still want Pietrangelo next year bad).

Also the Wings prospect pool is not that impressive, guys like Nyquist, Smith are standing out for a reason but the rest of pack is pretty much high risk high reward and not exactly guaranteed future NHL stars.

Maybe try Filpula/Kronwall + 2 for Edler from Vancouver?

1. What has Holland done for the past several years to give anyone any confidence that he's going to do anything with his cap space but sit on it and hope to get healthy? He said it himself a few days ago. He's hoping this year will be like 2009.

2. Again, I hope he does, too, but what confidence should we have? He's pretty much failed at everything he's tried for the past couple of seasons. JayBo could be had for a reasonable price, given how, despite his recent improvement, he is still underperforming for his salary.

3. Armstrong would rather die than let Pietrangelo get away, ESPECIALLY to us. He'll be locked up looooooooooong-term before we can even wet ourselves at seeing him on the free-agent list. Besides that, I think he would still be an RFA, making our chances of landing him slightly north of slavery being put back into effect.

4. It may not be impressive, but it isn't bad, either. Nyquist, Tomas Tatar and Smith are standing out because they're good. Calle Jarnkrok and Teemu Pulkinnen are looking great thus far. Ryan Sproul and Xavier Ouellet also are coming along nicely. Riley Sheahan has a lot of personal problems, but also a lot of talent. Landon Ferraro, Jan Mursak, Martin Frk, and Joakim Andersson all could be decent two-way, third-line depth options in the future.

5. Trade a top-6 forward when two are hurt for the forseeable future? No thanks. Trading Kronwall for Edler would be a wash. We'd lose our de-facto #1 defenseman (deserving or not) for another #1 defenseman. Besides that, Vancouver just re-signed him. There's no way they're going to let their best defenseman walk so soon after re-signing him. The Canucks aren't struggling and have no interest in selling off pieces. The only two Canucks to be had right now are Mayson Raymond and Luongo. Eww to both.

Edited by DetroitRedWings1993

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Who are you to know who was or wasn't running the team at that point? Is that you Mike Illitch?

Holmstrom was a great player yes, but I'm not really sure he can be labeled a "star". Same goes for Draper and Maltby.

I think be "star" he mean Homer was the BEST at what he did. In the world of screening/pissing off goalies, Holmstrom is a god!

Edited by Wingsfan72
DSM likes this

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Again, Kornwall can't be traded. he has a FULL NTC through the 2016 season. Plus he has an ugly contract like franzen, Signed untill he is 40 something.......

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There are guys out there that can help us, both today and for the next 5-8 years. It is up to Holland to go get them. Would O'reilly help? yes. name your price Colorado. 22 year old soon to be star C's don't grow on trees and we are in need. would Yannick weber help? hell yes. 25 year old puck moving RH Dman sitting on the Habs bench. Both would be instant upgrades to our team, and are very young. There is no reason not to expect Weber to be playing at a high level for the next 7 years. O"reilly for another 10 years.

Of course there are others mentioned in rumors and some that are not.

as for what we have to pay, basicly anyone not named Z, Smith, or Howard or anyone playing in juniors can be moved. yes that would include Datsyuk. again, has to be the right deal. Holland can't afford to be shy anymore. yes some gambles have to be taken, just not sure he will this late in his career.

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There are guys out there that can help us, both today and for the next 5-8 years. It is up to Holland to go get them. Would O'reilly help? yes. name your price Colorado. 22 year old soon to be star C's don't grow on trees and we are in need. would Yannick weber help? hell yes. 25 year old puck moving RH Dman sitting on the Habs bench. Both would be instant upgrades to our team, and are very young. There is no reason not to expect Weber to be playing at a high level for the next 7 years. O"reilly for another 10 years.

Of course there are others mentioned in rumors and some that are not.

as for what we have to pay, basicly anyone not named Z, Smith, or Howard or anyone playing in juniors can be moved. yes that would include Datsyuk. again, has to be the right deal. Holland can't afford to be shy anymore. yes some gambles have to be taken, just not sure he will this late in his career.

  • I agree with everything but making Datsyuk available. He wants to return to Russia soon, so we may as well get whatever production he has left out of him. He's still an elite player. It's not like he's steadily declining. I would only move a big name if it means we're getting a big name in return. We can't just sell off parts. The majority of the fanbase will burn the city to the ground if they commit to a rebuild. Too much talent yet.
Edited by DetroitRedWings1993

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Why does everybody seem to think Datsyuk is ready to just pack his bags and go back to Russia? He told the Russian media that he "would like to retire" in Russia. Doesn't mean that he wants to when his deal is done, or that he will do it at all.

Lidstrom talked about going back to Sweden as far back as 1999, and retired a Wing 13 years later.

Come on now guys...



There are guys out there that can help us, both today and for the next 5-8 years. It is up to Holland to go get them. Would O'reilly help? yes. name your price Colorado. 22 year old soon to be star C's don't grow on trees and we are in need. would Yannick weber help? hell yes. 25 year old puck moving RH Dman sitting on the Habs bench. Both would be instant upgrades to our team, and are very young. There is no reason not to expect Weber to be playing at a high level for the next 7 years. O"reilly for another 10 years.

Of course there are others mentioned in rumors and some that are not.

as for what we have to pay, basicly anyone not named Z, Smith, or Howard or anyone playing in juniors can be moved. yes that would include Datsyuk. again, has to be the right deal. Holland can't afford to be shy anymore. yes some gambles have to be taken, just not sure he will this late in his career.

Boy, am I glad you don't have Hollands job... You'd make Mike Milbury look like Bill Torrey, and Garth Snow look like Art Ross.

Edited by DSM

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Why does everybody seem to think Datsyuk is ready to just pack his bags and go back to Russia? He told the Russian media that he "would like to retire" in Russia. Doesn't mean that he wants to when his deal is done, or that he will do it at all.

Lidstrom talked about going back to Sweden as far back as 1999, and retired a Wing 13 years later.

Come on now guys...

Boy, am I glad you don't have Hollands job... You'd make Mike Milbury look like Bill Torrey, and Garth Snow look like Art Ross.

Maybe just it makes too much sense? The guy has nothing left to prove here, he is playing for an organization in decline/rebuild mode and would love to retire in Russia, he will be 37 when his contract is up, so do the math here..

I agree with posters, saying that Holland has to be more aggressive now but keep in mind guys like Reilly are going to command a big prize and I highly doubt the Avalanche would deal him to this team. Yannick Weber would be nice but he is not a #1 defender, so sadly there aren't as many options as people like to think.

At some point in the not so distant future Holland has to hit 1 - 2 homeruns, otherwhise this team might be looking at another streak but not a nice on.e

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Maybe just it makes too much sense? The guy has nothing left to prove here, he is playing for an organization in decline/rebuild mode and would love to retire in Russia, he will be 37 when his contract is up, so do the math here..

I agree with posters, saying that Holland has to be more aggressive now but keep in mind guys like Reilly are going to command a big prize and I highly doubt the Avalanche would deal him to this team. Yannick Weber would be nice but he is not a #1 defender, so sadly there aren't as many options as people like to think.

At some point in the not so distant future Holland has to hit 1 - 2 homeruns, otherwhise this team might be looking at another streak but not a nice on.e

I've done the math, and all it is is minor speculation based on something he said to his hometown media. It seems most on here just use it as fuel to turn on NHL13 and try to trade Filppula for Sidney Crosby in GM mode and then post about it.

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The other thing to keep in mind, and I just started doing the "maths" on this stuff, but there will be teams that are going to need to dump salary to stay competitive while getting cap compliant when next year's cap max goes down.

Which means a lot of teams are going to be making trades at the deadline... and come July 1st (or whenever Free Agency starts this upcoming off season

Vancouver is a prime example. Here's the maths:

Going into 2013-14

5 defensemen signed for 22.9 million
7 forwards signed for 28.2 million
2 goalies signed for 9.3333333333 million

total: $60,403,333
cap at $64.3


cap space: 3.897 million

14 players signed

so that's 9 players needed.


Now obviously they can get rid of luongo's salary @ 5.3 with a trade, but you know that if that's a trade VAN will be taking some salary on. (So, let's just imagine they buy him out just to get to the numbers and where you can see what VAN will be ultimately working with and how it can benefit other teams looking for talent through trades.)


...and let's say they buy out one of their defensemen (ballard, bieksa, hamuis ... it doesn't matter)

That's still only going to net you another 4.2-4.6 million... but let's be generous…9.9 million with the two buy outs.


Netting you 13.797 million for 9 players. That's an average of 1.533 million per player… which just barely pays for their current UFA/RFA forwards at their same salaries for next year... and you've still got to grab up three more defensemen (7) and a backup goaltender.


Now I'm not suggesting that VAN wants to sign all or even any of their pending free agents forwards or defensemen, but you know they're going to want to stay competitive… so, they've got some work to do to balance/fill out that roster and get to a better place cap wise.

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The other thing to keep in mind, and I just started doing the "maths" on this stuff, but there will be teams that are going to need to dump salary to stay competitive while getting cap compliant when next year's cap max goes down.

Which means a lot of teams are going to be making trades at the deadline... and come July 1st (or whenever Free Agency starts this upcoming off season

A lot of the teams that need to get cap compliant for next season will wait till between the draft and July 1st, unless they are well out of the playoff race.

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  • I agree with everything but making Datsyuk available. He wants to return to Russia soon, so we may as well get whatever production he has left out of him. He's still an elite player. It's not like he's steadily declining. I would only move a big name if it means we're getting a big name in return. We can't just sell off parts. The majority of the fanbase will burn the city to the ground if they commit to a rebuild. Too much talent yet.

Lets just pretend for a minute. datsyuk finishes his contract and then retires. What do we get? Nothing. is this team, as it is presntly constructed going to win a SC before then? No. If you set the emotion aside, hard to do, the smart thing is to move him and get 2-3 guys just breaking into the league, that will be here for the enxt 10 years. It is the emotional attachment to former greats that dooms every dynansty. Pick your sport, dosn't matter. Cowboys and Steeler in the 70's 49ers in the 80's, islanders in the late 70's, Oilers in the 80, lakers and celtics in the 80's, on and on and on. yes it is hard to move guys that did so much for your organization. They got you those championships. But if they are not going to be part of the next one, the smart move is to move them. But far to often the heart over rules the brain, and that is when teams fall apart.

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Maybe just it makes too much sense? The guy has nothing left to prove here, he is playing for an organization in decline/rebuild mode and would love to retire in Russia, he will be 37 when his contract is up, so do the math here..

I agree with posters, saying that Holland has to be more aggressive now but keep in mind guys like Reilly are going to command a big prize and I highly doubt the Avalanche would deal him to this team. Yannick Weber would be nice but he is not a #1 defender, so sadly there aren't as many options as people like to think.

At some point in the not so distant future Holland has to hit 1 - 2 homeruns, otherwhise this team might be looking at another streak but not a nice on.e

No Weber isn't a #1. But he would be better than all but Kronwall and maybe E, out of our current rotation. Also, he is only 24. 5-11/200 RH shot, good for 30ish points per year over a full 82 game season. A clear upgrade over White our only other RH Dman. pair him up with a strong stay at home LH Dman and it would be a good second pair. Lashoff/Weber or Ericsson/Weber.

Yes getting a true #1 D or top flight C would be great. But lets be honest, our whole roster needs to be rebuilt.

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Lets just pretend for a minute. datsyuk finishes his contract and then retires. What do we get? Nothing. is this team, as it is presntly constructed going to win a SC before then? No. If you set the emotion aside, hard to do, the smart thing is to move him and get 2-3 guys just breaking into the league, that will be here for the enxt 10 years. It is the emotional attachment to former greats that dooms every dynansty. Pick your sport, dosn't matter. Cowboys and Steeler in the 70's 49ers in the 80's, islanders in the late 70's, Oilers in the 80, lakers and celtics in the 80's, on and on and on. yes it is hard to move guys that did so much for your organization. They got you those championships. But if they are not going to be part of the next one, the smart move is to move them. But far to often the heart over rules the brain, and that is when teams fall apart.

I would agree if Datsyuk were starting to fall off. Then it might be time to consider it. But, he's not. He's still putting up huge points, playing solid defensively, and creating opportunities for everyone. That goal against Nashville proves he's still every bit the player he always was. We just can't part with him right now. Trade Datsyuk and the fanbase will call for Holland's head on a spit. Throw in Illich's, too. You can't trade this guy. This season is not over. We don't know what we would get for him. What happens if our return for him fails epicly? Then what? He spends the last years of his career contributing excellently as he always has and we're STILL in trouble. I'd rather have him here to play his game and mentor our younger talent. That's another point. He means more than just what is seen on the ice. Personally, I would want EVERY ONE of my forwards learning from Datsyuk. This is a guy you want to be a part of your organization up until his final second and beyond. This is a guy I want scouting and coaching young talent. This is a guy I want around my young players. We shouldn't attach ourselves to our stars and shut our eyes to possibility, but we can't be pessimistic and defeatist, either. No franchise that has that attitude has ever won anything. There is still talent on this team and Pav is a huge part of that. His value is just too great to this franchise playing here than it is away from it. I say that this young talent will need coaching and a role model. Datsyuk is the perfect choice.

Edited by DetroitRedWings1993

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Anyone have a problem with the fact that 3 of the 6 players that are worthy of being moved off of the team have NTCs?

I am not very happy with this situation.

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Anyone have a problem with the fact that 3 of the 6 players that are worthy of being moved off of the team have NTCs?

I am not very happy with this situation.

I don't have a problem with it. :dntknw:

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Anyone have a problem with the fact that 3 of the 6 players that are worthy of being moved off of the team have NTCs?

I am not very happy with this situation.

We need to add without subtracting. Dealing for talent while losing talent doesn't help us. We're right back where we started.

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Anyone have a problem with the fact that 3 of the 6 players that are worthy of being moved off of the team have NTCs?

I am not very happy with this situation.

I'm guessing you mean: Sammy... Cleary... Bert...

Sammy is the only one with a NTC.

Cleary's expired at the end of last season.

Bert's is modified.

Kronwall and Sammy are the only Wings players that currently have non-modified NTC...

I'm sure you realize that NTCs can be waived.

I don't view NTCs as handcuffing this team.

These veteran guys that sign here with a NTC appreciate that stability and it's not something to scoff at.

On the other end of the spectrum, do you honestly think Sammy or Bert wouldn't waive their NTC to go to a contender if another Stanley Cup were on the line and the Wings weren't making the playoffs?

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I got news for you all. The Wings do not make deadline splashes anymore. The D looks pretty solid. Who knows we may have the best crop of young D in the league. Lashoff in general aunt going anywhere

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I got news for you all. The Wings do not make deadline splashes anymore. The D looks pretty solid. Who knows we may have the best crop of young D in the league. Lashoff in general aunt going anywhere

The D has played better lately, but overall, has been laughably bad. Far too many turnovers and dumb mistakes. No deadline splashes? Then we sit here and stay the same inconsistent team who lacks a reliable scoring punch and has a defense that's normally a sieve while everyone around gets better. Again. Either improvements are made, or the playoffs fall out of reach. It's that simple.

Edited by DetroitRedWings1993

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Trading Datsyuk is ridiculous. Trade away a sure fire superstar for a handful of maybe-one-day-stars? Wouldn't it make more sense to surround him with talent and go for it all this year or next year? I'd rather come up with creative packages to get another 2nd line scorer or some defense and see what happens. This team is always under-estimated, probably because of their inconsistency, but when this team is on they are nearly unstoppable. Right now, this is not a Cup caliber team, but we're not more than maybe two new players away from contending seriously. You'd be amazed what a difference the right players can make.

I don't care if it takes picks, to be honest. Building from within is important, but I'd drop a 1st and some players for a superstar defenseman in a heart-beat, as long as he was in his mid-20s. Because he is going to win you more games than a potential #1 prospect 8 years from then.

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We need to add without subtracting. Dealing for talent while losing talent doesn't help us. We're right back where we started.

Lol best post of the year.

Tell me how you add without subtracting? You give away a clearly or Sammy or 95% of our team and expect a star player.

Trading Datsyuk is ridiculous. Trade away a sure fire superstar for a handful of maybe-one-day-stars? Wouldn't it make more sense to surround him with talent and go for it all this year or next year? I'd rather come up with creative packages to get another 2nd line scorer or some defense and see what happens. This team is always under-estimated, probably because of their inconsistency, but when this team is on they are nearly unstoppable. Right now, this is not a Cup caliber team, but we're not more than maybe two new players away from contending seriously. You'd be amazed what a difference the right players can make.

I don't care if it takes picks, to be honest. Building from within is important, but I'd drop a 1st and some players for a superstar defenseman in a heart-beat, as long as he was in his mid-20s. Because he is going to win you more games than a potential #1 prospect 8 years from then.

I agree we need talent around days cause really clearly and Abby don't cut it. BUT HOW DO WE DO THAT WHEN WE DONT HAVE GUYS TO TRADE TO GET STARS AROUND HIM.

You think we can win now. But FACT we can't. I only support trading dats if he won't sign an extension....soon. same to fil.

This team as it stands can't win a Stanley cup and the only way to get to that point is by trades(Holland won't do the necessary trades) and FA. Hopefully we can get a few wingers top help our top two lines.

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Lol best post of the year.

Tell me how you add without subtracting? You give away a clearly or Sammy or 95% of our team and expect a star player.

I agree we need talent around days cause really clearly and Abby don't cut it. BUT HOW DO WE DO THAT WHEN WE DONT HAVE GUYS TO TRADE TO GET STARS AROUND HIM.

You think we can win now. But FACT we can't. I only support trading dats if he won't sign an extension....soon. same to fil.

This team as it stands can't win a Stanley cup and the only way to get to that point is by trades(Holland won't do the necessary trades) and FA. Hopefully we can get a few wingers top help our top two lines.

FYI, the phrase means coming out of a trade better than when you enter. It's used all the time. "Star" is a relative term. Different players are stars to different teams for different reasons. Do I expect to get Corey Perry for Ericsson and a 7th? Absolutely not. But quality players can be had. Holland tried, as Bruce Garrioch recently reported, to trade for O'Reilly. Given the asking price, that would've been a mistake. He's talked with the Panthers about Stephen Weiss. He's trying to make a deal. It's not like he's on vacation. As the poster before you said, it can be incredible what just a few players can do for your team. You never know until you try. So, know that I've told you what it means, yes, we need to add without subtracting in an overall, general "team" sense.

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I am all for taking time to make a deal. As things have developed the need on D has really dropped of. Our top 6 are playing well, finally. They have always had talent, now they are putting it together, which is great and was hoped for. Now we need to help our the forward corps. G is set, D looks pretty good, but we cant score. You don't win many games scoring just 1 or 2 goals. We have play mkers and passers. need guys to crash the net, work the corners, and that can shoot. The hard part is, those are the most valuable players in the NHL. Kinda like power hitters and strike out pitchers in baseball.

But we have a month untill the trade deadline. lets hope a few more teams drop out-not us, and more becomes available.

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We have a very large contingent of very good to elite Defensive prospects with only a couple forwards in that category. We also have more depth on D than at forward so if anyone is moved from the current roster it will likely be from the back end.

I don't think its out of the question to move a prospect combined with some picks or depth defenceman to improve the top 6. It would all depend on the player we are getting back and which prospect(s) we would be giving up.

We can forget any dreams of moving guys like Cleary, nobody wants to sign a rental who can't even produce while playing with an elite set-up man. He's ours till his contract is up. Trading Datsyuk will never happen unless he demands one himself so that's another non-starter.

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