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2/21 GDT Columbus 3 @ Red Wings 2



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#401 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:47 PM

Washington is the worst team in the NHL right now.

 

As for Holland making a move, I would say no.  Reactionary and impulse moves would accomplish nothing.  This season is pretty much done.

The only move that they could make is to jettison Flip for a different player.  they won't get much for him since he is a rental and doesn't have a contract next season, but that would be a start.  Either that or if they can sign him for 2-3 million a season, that may be fair.

 

I would rather gut out the season with what we have than trade away our prospects to save a season that is already lost.  I trust in Holland and the Wings leadership.  They have brought us 4 cups in the last 15 years.  That alone should be reason enough to trust in them.

I'd rather waive guys like Sammy and Cleary and give guys like Nyquist and Sheahan ice time to get them ready for next year.  Trade Q for a broken skate sharpener and keep Lashoff up full time and see if Almqvist can hack it.  and for s***s and giggles, bring Jurco up for a couple games and put him straight in the top 6 with Dats and Tatar to give him a taste and give Dats some youth to have some fun with.  lastly, just for 1 game when Helm gets back, i'd like to see a line of Tootoo-Helm-Callahan and have them completely ruin the night for a top line on the other team.  And i would prefer that team to be the Sharks.

 

I will converse with you all more tomorrow.  time to watch criminal minds and then call it a night.


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#402 Nightfall

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:49 PM

No one trade is going to fix this team. There is simply no point in giving up assets right now. 

 

Yup, play with what we have and let the chips fall where they may.

 

Let the fairweather fans leave and join the Blackhawks fan club.  Holland and company would benefit from making good decisions, draft, and sign new players.  The fans are going to be upset for barely making the playoffs or not making it at all.  Big freaking deal.


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#403 GoWings1905

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:49 PM

 
Washington is the worst team in the NHL right now.
 
As for Holland making a move, I would say no.  Reactionary and impulse moves would accomplish nothing.  This season is pretty much done.

The only move that they could make is to jettison Flip for a different player.  they won't get much for him since he is a rental and doesn't have a contract next season, but that would be a start.  Either that or if they can sign him for 2-3 million a season, that may be fair.
 
I would rather gut out the season with what we have than trade away our prospects to save a season that is already lost.  I trust in Holland and the Wings leadership.  They have brought us 4 cups in the last 15 years.  That alone should be reason enough to trust in them.

Columbus had fewer points than Washington until the Red Wings gave them two tonight, but that's beside the main issue.

I agree with playing the season out since the Red Wings aren't winning a championship, but to me that has to absolutely include an expanded role for the prospects. Nyquist should be up without question and Tatar should see more minutes. Playing these spare part veteran pieces in prominent roles (see Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi) is useless for the future.

I understand what Holland has accomplished, but you can't ride on the past forever. The Red Wings haven't made it out of the second round in four years likely -- that's plenty of time to say things aren't working anymore. Holland has to alter his approach and that has to involve something other than minor roster tweaks and signing some veterans to multi-year deals. You can't say reactionary moves are never an option when the status quo philosophy is getting the organization nowhere right now.

Edited by GoWings1905, 21 February 2013 - 10:52 PM.

 
 
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#404 Wings10

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:49 PM

Looks like were gonna miss the playoffs this season, unless we can get everyone healthy in time to make a run.



#405 Nightfall

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:50 PM

I'd rather waive guys like Sammy and Cleary and give guys like Nyquist and Sheahan ice time to get them ready for next year.  Trade Q for a broken skate sharpener and keep Lashoff up full time and see if Almqvist can hack it.  and for s***s and giggles, bring Jurco up for a couple games and put him straight in the top 6 with Dats and Tatar to give him a taste and give Dats some youth to have some fun with.  lastly, just for 1 game when Helm gets back, i'd like to see a line of Tootoo-Helm-Callahan and have them completely ruin the night for a top line on the other team.  And i would prefer that team to be the Sharks.

 

I will converse with you all more tomorrow.  time to watch criminal minds and then call it a night.

 

You should just watch all the forum chatter here and its just like Criminal Minds.  :D

 

Seriously though, when the season is lost, then I agree.  The Wings should play their best players right now, and when they become mathematically eliminated, then play the kids.


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#406 IllinoisRedWingsFan

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:52 PM

People actually think Howard is worth 5 mil. Its laughable.

 

IMO he is worth $3 Million at the most and with his performance as of late that is being generous. 



#407 Nightfall

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:56 PM

Columbus had fewer points than Washington until the Red Wings gave them two tonight, but that's beside the main issue.

I agree with playing the season out since the Red Wings aren't winning a championship, but to me that has to absolutely include an expanded role for the prospects. Nyquist should up without question and Tatar should see more minutes. Playing these spare part veteran pieces in prominent roles is useless for the future.

I understand what Holland has accomplished, but you can't ride on the past forever. The Red Wings haven't made it out of the second round in four years likely -- that's plenty of time to say things aren't working anymore. Holland has to alter his approach and that has to involve something other than minor roster tweaks and signing some veterans to multi-year deals. You can't say reactionary moves are never an option when the status quo philosophy is getting the organization nowhere right now.

 

Thats why I said that Washington was the worst team in the league.

 

I agree with your assessment.  Tatar and Nyquist should be up here and getting top line minutes.

 

I think that Holland has earned some time to rebuild this team, and trust me we are in for some rebuilding.  Dats and Zetterberg are exiting their prime.  The old guard is retired.  New blood is coming into the system.  We were due for a rebuilding that is for sure.  To expect a Stanley Cup every year is a luxury we have had, and now that isn't a reality.

Holland's past success should earn him the right to rebuild, which will take years, not months or days.  This problem will not be solved by making desperate trades and sacrificing our future by trading away our prospects.

 

I feel that 4 Stanley cups in the last 15 years is a great run.  Not many teams have accomplished that feat.  I know many Wings fans are impatient and reactionary, and they can't give the leadership that time to rebuild.  This is why I am glad that the fans are not in charge of their contracts.


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#408 esteef

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:57 PM

Tatar with a measly 10:03 TOI, and he hustled and made nice plays and worked his ass off the whole time he was out there.  Maybe if he was getting top 6 mins we'd be far better off.  and at .500 we need to try something better than wasting Dats with Cleary and Abs.  Abs is good, but Cleary needs to grind away on the 4th line.  May as well bring Gus back up and use this season as a tryout.

 

Exactly.  Tatar's linemates couldn't keep up with him and Datsyuk's couldn't even execute a give and go properly.  Cleary actually had no idea the pass might come back to him multiple times tonight.  Mursak is fast but was frequently knocked off the puck and peeled away from contact all night.  Tatar moving up with Datsyuk would be a minor tweak that would really pay dividends.  Datsyuk's line shouldn't be digging the puck out of the corners all night.

 

esteef


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#409 Nightfall

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:58 PM

IMO he is worth $3 Million at the most and with his performance as of late that is being generous. 

 

I am sure Howard knows this as well.  The contract negotiation is going to be very easy.  If Howard was stealing the show in net and stealing games for the Wings, but then in the playoffs the team falters, how many here would be happy about paying Howard big bucks for 4-5 years?  I know I wouldn't.


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#410 Sgt. Angry

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:02 PM

can somebody give a quick synopsys of which players on the Red Wings between 1995 and 2002 came to us by trade or free agency vs. draft pick / farm system? I'm sure some of you more dedicated fans have a lot of this info on the tips of your tongues.


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#411 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:06 PM

You should just watch all the forum chatter here and its just like Criminal Minds.  :D

 

Seriously though, when the season is lost, then I agree.  The Wings should play their best players right now, and when they become mathematically eliminated, then play the kids.

Cleary x Quincey =  :bad:

Sammy / Hudler = Flames and Wings battling for 12th place.

Lastly, this year so far....

Holland + Babcock - Pi x Tatar's lack of ice time =  :bag:  carry the  :crazy:  and you have --->  :reporter: "This just in, Wings miss playoffs.  Lidstrom has no idea what that feels like"

 

There's some math from my Criminal Mind, with help from LGW emoticons. 



Exactly.  Tatar's linemates couldn't keep up with him and Datsyuk's couldn't even execute a give and go properly.  Cleary actually had no idea the pass might come back to him multiple times tonight.  Mursak is fast but was frequently knocked off the puck and peeled away from contact all night.  Tatar moving up with Datsyuk would be a minor tweak that would really pay dividends.  Datsyuk's line shouldn't be digging the puck out of the corners all night.

 

esteef

Mursak gets tossed around more than a paper air plane.  Dats with Tatatatar and Andersson would be nice.  Andersson's not as fast, but he's a big body that gets the puck and is great along the boards.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#412 evilmrt

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:07 PM

The Wings haven't had many 1st round picks because they trade them all.  Brendan Smith was the last one they had I believe.



 

Thanks for the clarification.  I pulled the 65% out of my ass.  :D

 

Nope, Riley Sheahan was the last 1st rounder (2010 Draft). McCollum actually was also a 1st round pick (2008), a year after Brendan Smith (2007). 

 

Before Smith? Kindl (2005). 

 

So, of the 4 1st round picks the Wings have had since 2000, only one of them, Smith, is decent. 

 

Not that great. 



#413 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:08 PM

can somebody give a quick synopsys of which players on the Red Wings between 1995 and 2002 came to us by trade or free agency vs. draft pick / farm system? I'm sure some of you more dedicated fans have a lot of this info on the tips of your tongues.

There was no salary cap so we could get Hull, Robitaille, Hasek and such all in the same year and collect money for them all the way to the SCF.  not really sure how much was given up for any of the above.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#414 Richdg

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:11 PM

can somebody give a quick synopsys of which players on the Red Wings between 1995 and 2002 came to us by trade or free agency vs. draft pick / farm system? I'm sure some of you more dedicated fans have a lot of this info on the tips of your tongues.

Oh boy.... home grown: yzerman, Federov, Kozlov, Nicky, Vladdy, McCarty, lapointe, Ward, Pushor, Z, datsyuk, Hommer, premiau, Kocur (but was also a UFA pickup),  I am sure there are a couple of more. Trades UFA's: pappa bear, lironov, Murphy, Ramsey, Rouse, vernon, hasek, Coffey, Shanny, Grimson, Draper, maltby, later Hull, Robie, lang, and sevral others. yes i went a little past 02.



#415 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:14 PM

Oh boy.... home grown: yzerman, Federov, Kozlov, Nicky, Vladdy, McCarty, lapointe, Ward, Pushor, Z, datsyuk, Hommer, premiau, Kocur (but was also a UFA pickup),  I am sure there are a couple of more. Trades UFA's: pappa bear, lironov, Murphy, Ramsey, Rouse, vernon, hasek, Coffey, Shanny, Grimson, Draper, maltby, later Hull, Robie, lang, and sevral others. yes i went a little past 02.

 

I think he was talking about what has Kenny done lately.

 

Not what have Bowman, other GM's in the past and Kenny done with this team in the 90's.  


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#416 Richdg

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:21 PM

I think he was talking about what has Kenny done lately.

 

Not what have Bowman, other GM's in the past and Kenny done with this team in the 90's.  

Clearly (not Cleary) asked for a breakdown on our roster from 95 through 02. That is what i did. Unless i misread something, which is possible after drinking all night...... RW's are going to kill my liver!



#417 GMRwings1983

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:24 PM

Clearly (not Cleary) asked for a breakdown on our roster from 95 through 02. That is what i did. Unless i misread something, which is possible after drinking all night...... RW's are going to kill my liver!

 

Yeah, I guess he did.  Maybe I've been drinking all night.


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#418 ogreslayer

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:57 PM

Nope, Riley Sheahan was the last 1st rounder (2010 Draft). McCollum actually was also a 1st round pick (2008), a year after Brendan Smith (2007). 

 

Before Smith? Kindl (2005). 

 

So, of the 4 1st round picks the Wings have had since 2000, only one of them, Smith, is decent. 

 

Not that great. 

 

Let's see, Sheahan is in his first full year in GR and is tied for 5th in points on the team.  Think you might be rushing to judgment a bit there.  Have to give credit where due too with the Wings organ-i-zation's ability to trade down out of the 1st round lately to get additional picks yet still get the player they would have taken in the 1st if they hadn't.  And get talent that was rated to go in the 1st to boot actually.  See Frk, Martin (2012) & Jurco, Tomas (2011) as recent examples.



#419 Euro_Twins

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:07 AM

Well I get home from work put the game on, See Brunner and Flip get two early goals, get all excited that they are playing well, may as well have fell asleep for an hour, and then blam watch the wings blow ANOTHER 2 goal lead... What happened to our pp, there is no way it's this bad for real. 3:51 power play, with a 9 second 5 on 3, and we still can't score on Bobrovski, how do the wings let the Jackets walk all over them. They have a much better team than Columbus, ffs they can't even string together a couple decent periods against the leagues worst team? 5 straight losses boys, keep up the good work!!



#420 Jaymister

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:15 AM

This team stinks, period.  It's time for a rebuild.


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