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#21 GMRwings1983

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:40 AM

A nice thing about this organization is that the coach will not be scapegoated.

 

Another nice thing is that our prospects are overripe in the minors, while crappier players take up their roster spots in the main lineup.  

 

Don't know if that's on Babcock or Holland, but some accountability has to go somewhere.  


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#22 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:48 PM

 

 
Right, cause dats gets pushed around oh so much. Tatar has proved so far he can play in the nhl aginst the grind lines and not be pushed around, so to me that is a non issue


That's pretty much what i'm seeing from them too. and with how much Cleary and Abs are bringing to the table, why not load up an offensive line. that's what the top 6 or in some cases top 9 is for. offensive threats. your 4th line is your energy line, and 3rd can be a skilled grind line. we have a top line, a grind line and 2 energy lines. time to mix it up and get some actual proper line combos to bulge some twine.

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Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#23 puckbags

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:18 PM

A nice thing about this organization is that the coach will not be scapegoated.

 

And he shouldn't be..if anything I think he's done a pretty good job with this ever revolving door of player, injuries and line combos.  Hard to build any chemistry.  Head above water..get healthy..make a run.


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#24 Nev

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

1)  As I say every time the "fire Babcock" cry it taken up, you need  to name a better coach, who is available, to replace him first.

 

2)  Can we not at least wait till we have something resembling a healthy roster before we throw him under the bus?  After all he's done for us, don't you think we owe him that?

 

3)  If Babcock is fired, half the coaches in the NHL will be nervously looking over their shoulders at their GMs.  There would be an absolute stampede for his services.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#25 joesuffP

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

I just look at other coaches like Tippett who have never had a really talented roster but the team is well structured and he gets the most of them. There's no reason why the wings should be constantly un prepared and come out totally flat. Or when they win the first period and the other team makes an adjustment and the wings have no answer for it. You can predict a wings loss when they're up 2-0 just how the game is going cause you know they aren't going to get it together

#26 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:46 PM

I just look at other coaches like Tippett who have never had a really talented roster but the team is well structured and he gets the most of them. There's no reason why the wings should be constantly un prepared and come out totally flat. Or when they win the first period and the other team makes an adjustment and the wings have no answer for it. You can predict a wings loss when they're up 2-0 just how the game is going cause you know they aren't going to get it together


You can really tell watching rhem that theres not much practicing between games

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#27 joesuffP

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:50 PM

If the powerplay is this bad there should be a new look every game until something works

#28 darkmanx

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

The only thing I have a problem with Babcock is I wish he would play Tatar with Datsyuk. Tatar could learn a ton playing with Datsyuk, and considering Datsyuk doesn't have a lot of time left with the Wings (especially seeing who he's playing with) they need the younger guys to learn as much as they can from him.



#29 SDavis35

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

I've been saying it for years - players feel too comfortable playing for Detroit. There is nothing Babcock can do about it. They are simply not prepared and this is the reason for all those injuries. It is all on Holland. What is more frustrating is that dropping useless guys like Miller, Mursak, Samuelsson and injecting someone like Nyquist, Ferraro, Shaehan into the line-up will not produce any effect as our "stars" (e.g. Franzen, Kronwall, Zetterberg) will still be playing with no pressure on them. Send one of them packing and trade to Winnipeg for peanuts and we all will see a bit different effort from the rest of them. 

 

Are there any examples of this happening on other teams in the past 10 years? Just for reference to say "it worked" or "it didn't work" 



#30 Red Crazy

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:05 PM

Babcock is fine. Holland needs to show us something very soon or maybe he can go. 



#31 Richdg

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:17 PM

The team is a mess and trying to figure it out as fans is driving us nuts. yes injuries are an issue. But even if we were healthy, would we really be much better? I don't think so. Would we be as good as the Ducks? B hawks? vancouver? Sharks? maybe Blues? maybe? Kings? maybe. All of those teams are heading north and we are heading south.

Watching the game last night, during the second intermission interview with babs, something hit me. His words and his team don't match. he said when asked "we need to get the puck in deep, get our forecheck going, and put pressure on the BJ's D". For us old timer hockey fans, that is something we all udnerstnad very well: Dump and Chase hockey. Most of us played it, watched it, coached it all of our lives. But the RW's are not, and haven't been in a long long time, a dump and chase team. We are a puck possesion team. we don't ever want to give the puck away, we want to keep it and skate around with it, waiting for the other team to make a mistake and then attack.

Now I bring this up, because I have wondered for sometime, if babs and holland are truely on the same page. Going back to last spring after we lost in the first round, babs said "clearly we are going in the wrong direction" when talking about the last 3 PO runs. There were some rumbling this past FA period that TooToo was signed to keep babs happy, not really a guy that Holland wanted. Now I have no idea if that was really the case or not. But i am starting to wonder more if they truely see things the same way. i think they both understand that each is one of the best in the business at what they do. So i don't think anything is going to change, unless Holland retires.

I know, just some crazy talk again......



#32 RusDRW

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 01:14 AM

Are there any examples of this happening on other teams in the past 10 years? Just for reference to say "it worked" or "it didn't work" 

 

There are no organizations with so much loyalty to their players. It needs to stop for us to have a competitive franchise in salary cup era. The other way to to find some Zetterbergs and Datsyuks in late round, i.e. we need some miracle to be compatitive if Kenny continues to be that loyal.


Sweet. This dude was brought here for one reason, to punch people in the head - every other thing that he can do, other Wings can do better. I like that we have a head-puncher. The league has other, better head-punchers, but this one is ours. Better than nothing. Good work, Kenny!

© mikah

#33 Nev

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 04:04 AM

Now I bring this up, because I have wondered for sometime, if babs and holland are truely on the same page. Going back to last spring after we lost in the first round, babs said "clearly we are going in the wrong direction" when talking about the last 3 PO runs. There were some rumbling this past FA period that TooToo was signed to keep babs happy, not really a guy that Holland wanted. Now I have no idea if that was really the case or not. But i am starting to wonder more if they truely see things the same way. i think they both understand that each is one of the best in the business at what they do. So i don't think anything is going to change, unless Holland retires.

 

 

 

I think that has been the case for a while.  Leino and Abdelkader being sent to the minors was what, 2009?  And Babcock publicly disagreed with that.  There've been other hints too, whenever we've had a fighter - Drake, May etc - Babcock has made a big deal of it.  And of course, he publicly stated that the team has gone backwards the last 3 seasons after the Nashville loss and negatively compared our roster to theirs.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#34 Hiei

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:35 AM

Simple.  Who did we have in 2008 that we didn't in 09

 

McCarty, Drake, Downey.  If we had em in 09 i might not remember it off hand.  Guys who provide energy, grinding, in your face Hockey.  the H in Hockey stands for HIT SOMEONE DAMMIT

 

Now look at our roster.  We've gone away from having some grinders to having 3rd and 4th lines made out of other teams' spare parts, Bertuzzi's spot to retire, and kids from GR that were brought up to either hack it or get demoted.  Injuries have piled up too, let's not forget that we were out of the playoffs in 2010 near the Olympic break, and the only thing that drug us back into it was Howard blocking everything in sight.

If Holland can't find us those kind of players again, or does not want to find us the players to make us successful, then we must trust that Mr. I will take care of the matter...


"Hit em with your purse, ya *****!" - Random Wings fans shouting at Franziska


#35 ToMaToToWnWinGsFaN_24

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:52 AM

well lindy ruff is available :P :)

jk if things continue to crumble it would be a possibility. but with a shortened season i see no reason to do any firing. they now have what 32 games left? so just play the 32 games then if wings dont make playoffs then evaluate how the season went then see what changes need to be done.

 

thats why idont like the lindy ruff firing. if it was an 82 game season the sure. 



#36 GoalieManPat

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:12 AM

Babcock needs to be take the blame for keeping Dan Cleary in the lineup despite the fact the guys is just plain terrible this year.



#37 b.shanafan14

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:31 AM

RIGHT NOW, it is a perfect storm of injuries and subpar coaching from the entire staff.

 

As I've said before, while Bertuzzi, Franzen, Helm, and Smith would improve the lineup, they would not be replacing the players who deserve to be scratched, but rather the young guys who have been steady and energetic throughout this mess. Replacing pluses with pluses provides limited returns when compared to replacing minuses. If the staff, Babcock included, had the balls to grant ice-time based on merit, not seniority this team would not be losing games as often now, and they would be much better off when certain healthy players return. This has been a problem with the Wings for a few years now. Also, Renney's powerplay is dreadful, and yet nothing is being done to change it. Given these problems, I don't think you can attribute any of this season's limited success to coaching, but rather huge performances out of Datsyuk and Zetterberg on any given occasion.

 

That said, this team in its healthiest state is not built well, and that lies squarely on Holland's shoulders. Bringing in spare parts, past-their-primes, and glass men to replace great players is not a solution, but its what we've seen since 2009. As others have said, Bertuzzi while decently solid has had his share of injuries and is getting old, and he is the best acquisition not named Brunner the Wings have had since Hossa. A healthy Sammy and Cola does nothing but force out more young players who have earned their spots. Overriping has turned into wasting away and this team is too old, too fragile, and too complacent, with players forced into positions they don't belong (Kronwall as #1 D, Cleary/Sammy as top-6/PP, etc.) As bad as this team is injured, payroll to returns comparison looks much worse with it healthy.

 

TLDR: Injuries suck, but ice-time needs to be merit-based and it isn't. Coaching has not kept us afloat, individual performances have. Injuries and coaching aside, Holland has done nothing to build a winner and insure the future in almost 4 seasons and should shoulder the majority of the blame for the sad state of things.



#38 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

Babcock needs to be take the blame for keeping Dan Cleary in the lineup despite the fact the guys is just plain terrible this year.

The only reason i can come up with that Babcock is keeping those guys in the lineup is to show Holland the team he gave him.  Hey Kenny, why'd ya sign Cleary so long and thanks for Logo Hunter back for the game he played.  At least Tootoo has been nice.  I wonder if Babs has any say in who gets called up or if Kenny is in charge of it.  It seems strange that Gus is in GR when Babcock seemed to like him.


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#39 DRW Dominance

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:39 AM

I think everyone here including myself has no idea what goes on behind the scenes with a coach and gm and team.

I'm not saying just to trust them because they are in charge but all these decisions are easier to make for us when nothing is at stake.


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#40 Richdg

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:51 PM

I think everyone here including myself has no idea what goes on behind the scenes with a coach and gm and team.

I'm not saying just to trust them because they are in charge but all these decisions are easier to make for us when nothing is at stake.

Correct we have no idea on what goes on. But we also see what is happening on the ice and what is not happening_moves to make us better. be those moves internal or external.







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