82 replies to this topic

[kipwinger]

Still with you on Regehr/Volchenkov. Though I feel like Volchenkov would cost something like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Brunner, Franzen, eight first-round picks, seven unicorn tears, and one full sixty-minute effort this season. ("Oh man," Ken Holland says, "you had me right up until that last one.")

 

Haha, I don't think he'd cost too much.  They've got 8 defensemen, Volchenkov is currently playing on the third pair, with Tallinder easily capable of playing his minutes...and much more cheaply I might add.  I think they'd be willing to move A-Train just to get that 4.5 million dollar cap hit off their third pair.  But obviously he'd be harder to land than Regehr or the others I mentioned.  Still think it could be done for a decent prospect and our 2nd. 

[Shaman464]

I don't think we are "a long way off from being a legit contender".  We compete very well 5-5, we've played good teams closely this season when we've had a (nearly) healthy roster, and we've had solid goaltending (regardless of what the Howard scapegoaters say).  We need defense badly.  Specifically top minute stay at home defenders (which Holland has confirmed in interviews).  Those aren't that expensive.  We got Stuart for a 2nd and a 4th.  As I've been saying all long, insert a quality shutdown defender alongside Kronwall, move Ericsson to the 2nd pair with Smith, and use whoever (White/Lashoff, Quincey/Colaiacovo, Kindl/Huskins) as the third pair and our defense is noticeably better in all facets of the game.  In other threads I've mentioned Regehr, Volchenkov, Mark Stuart, Henrik Tallinder as guys who could be had relatively cheaply and who could fill the role I'm talking about but I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of.  A healthy lineup and a solidified defense makes our team a contender, mark my words.   

 

I think that the Wings, while aren't a long way off from being a playoff contender, they are a long way off from being on the same level as the top tier teams as it stands today. As I said in the offseason I am more afraid of mediocrity than a couple years of being bad, but rebuilding the team. To sum it up, I just don't want the Wings to be a Calgary type team because Holland is too afraid to take any risks either trying to win now, or to try to build long term. 

[kipwinger]

I think that the Wings, while aren't a long way off from being a playoff contender, they are a long way off from being on the same level as the top tier teams as it stands today. As I said in the offseason I am more afraid of mediocrity than a couple years of being bad, but rebuilding the team. To sum it up, I just don't want the Wings to be a Calgary type team because Holland is too afraid to take any risks either trying to win now, or to try to build long term. 

 

I agree, doing nothing is bad, but I'd take it a step further and say rebuilding is bad too.  If you go into full rebuild mode, then you're 2-3 years (at least) away from being competitive again.  In 2-3 years Datsyuk will likely be gone, Z will be Datsyuk's age, Franzen will be over the hill, as will Kronwall.  In the time it takes to rebuild, the core that you'd be rebuilding on will be crumbling.  I think it's better to win now while we've still got the talent to do it. 

[Shaman464]

I agree, doing nothing is bad, but I'd take it a step further and say rebuilding is bad too.  If you go into full rebuild mode, then you're 2-3 years (at least) away from being competitive again.  In 2-3 years Datsyuk will likely be gone, Z will be Datsyuk's age, Franzen will be over the hill, as will Kronwall.  In the time it takes to rebuild, the core that you'd be rebuilding on will be crumbling.  I think it's better to win now while we've still got the talent to do it. 

I think if they go into a mini-rebuild, with the pieces they have in the minors they can unload some older players for picks (with an extremely deep draft this season), and have room pick up new blood in free agency, which is also pretty deep this off season they will be right back into that top tier. I'd rather them miss one year of post season play than to be a bubble team for 5.

Edited by Shaman464, 23 February 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[dirtydangles]

I wouldn't be opposed to the wings selling off some of the fat and going youth for a couple years. It would be great to have some extra draft picks to either trade for RFAs with or draft young talent. That would mean pawning off Franzen, White, Colo, Sammy, Cleary, Bert, Quincey for whatever picks we can get and then putting those picks to work in one way or another. We might not be able to directly use those players in a trade, but the picks that they bring in could be used for something.

[kipwinger]

I think if they go into a mini-rebuild, with the pieces they have in the minors they can unload some older players for picks (with an extremely deep draft this season), and have room pick up new blood in free agency, which is also pretty deep this off season they will be right back into that top tier. I'd rather them miss one year of post season play than to be a bubble team for 5.

 

I see your point and I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't think a rebuild is necessary right now because we've essentially already done it.  It's just that all the guys we've got to show for it are a few years away still.  Jurco, Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Sproul, Quellet, Frk, ARE the rebuild, but they aren't ready for at least two more years.  In the mean time, our core has a couple three years of competitive hockey from the core that I don't think should be squandered by doing nothing.  Trading Nyquist, Tatar, or both and a few picks would significantly help this team now and for the next 2-3 seasons, and not really mortage the future considering the future is in the guys I've already mentioned.  Nyquist and a 1st would go a long way toward landing a guy like Bogosian for instance, and Tatar and a third would make you competitive for Stephen Weiss.  It would take considerable less than that to land Regehr and Blake Wheeler, both of whom are UFA's next year and would help this year.  Then restock the picks you lose by trading as many of our extra (read: throw away) roster players as you want. 

Edited by kipwinger, 23 February 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[Yzerfan1999]

Kronwall, Bertuzzi, and Nyquist for Perry.

White, Colo, Franzen, and Mursak for Yandle.

Howard, Samuelsson, and Brunner for Schneider.

Drop Cleary, Abdelkader, and Huskins.

Filppula-Datsyuk-Perry
Tatar-Helm-Zetterberg
Miller-Andersson-Eaves
Ferraro-Emmerton-Tootoo
Callahan-Jarnkrok

Yandle-Ericsson
Smith-Quincey
Kindl-Lashoff
Ouelette

Schneider
Mrazek

Is this a joke?

[GoWings1905]

Is this a joke?

It is, but it isn't if you know what I mean.

As for the trade deadline, I think the Red Wings will be quiet. If there's a decent d-man to be had, I could see Holland making a play but otherwise I'm not expecting much. In all honesty, that's fine because the Red Wings aren't a piece or two away from legitimate contention and anything significant will cost a ton.

I just don't want any of the major prospects dealt for some random player (ala Kyle Quincey) that won't make an immediate impact to the team's short-term success. This is largely a patchwork roster anyways, so unless the return can help the team for years to come, then it's not worth it to me.

I'm sure some tires will get kicked and the stable of seven guys injured coming back will be our acquisition. Using injuries as an excuse to stand pat again this summer isn't acceptable though.

[Adidarw]

In my opinion, the Wings don't become "sellers" until it is a reasonable, educated reality that they are not going to make the playoffs.

 

I mean a situation where they have to win the rest of the games in the season to make the playoffs and that number could not realistically be accomplished judging by the team's recent efforts at the time.  As of right now, they're still in the race and anything could happen.

 

Just making the playoffs always provides the chance to win it all.  I did a little research just now, and I don't believe an 8th seeded team has ever won the Stanley Cup (but 2 have made it to the finals).  However, no team in NHL history has ever gotten at least a point in their first 16 games either... Oh, wait... that's right, the Blackhawks just did that!  Anything is possible.

 

I believe that not only will the Wings make the playoffs, but they will also finish somewhere higher than the 8th seed.

[kipwinger]

The 8th seed won the Stanley Cup last season.

[Adidarw]

Ah, so you're right.  Then they must be the only team to have done it then?

[AusWing40]

Is this a joke?

I was asking myself the same thing

[mackel]

In my opinion, the Wings don't become "sellers" until it is a reasonable, educated reality that they are not going to make the playoffs.
 
I mean a situation where they have to win the rest of the games in the season to make the playoffs and that number could not realistically be accomplished judging by the team's recent efforts at the time.  As of right now, they're still in the race and anything could happen.
 
Just making the playoffs always provides the chance to win it all.  I did a little research just now, and I don't believe an 8th seeded team has ever won the Stanley Cup (but 2 have made it to the finals).  However, no team in NHL history has ever gotten at least a point in their first 16 games either... Oh, wait... that's right, the Blackhawks just did that!  Anything is possible.
 
I believe that not only will the Wings make the playoffs, but they will also finish somewhere higher than the 8th seed.

LA was an 8th seed last year. But the Wings aren't built for tough playoff style hockey. Our glass jaw roster can't even play early regular season hockey without a slew of injuries.

[VM1138]

We are just a move or two away from contending. Look, we know Kronwall is better than this. So if we can wrangle a top pairing d-man, it helps. Our offense is okay, when hot it could be really good. Grab a puckhound or a sniper of lucky, and we're back. Not guaranteed world beaters, but highly competitive. Plus, injuries healing won't magically make is tons better, but it will help the lines settle down and put players back in proper roles.

[Barrie]

Kronwall, Bertuzzi, and Nyquist for Perry.

White, Colo, Franzen, and Mursak for Yandle.

Howard, Samuelsson, and Brunner for Schneider.

Drop Cleary, Abdelkader, and Huskins.

Filppula-Datsyuk-Perry
Tatar-Helm-Zetterberg
Miller-Andersson-Eaves
Ferraro-Emmerton-Tootoo
Callahan-Jarnkrok

Yandle-Ericsson
Smith-Quincey
Kindl-Lashoff
Ouelette

Schneider
Mrazek

 

Are those the moves you made in NHL13?

Is this a joke?

 

Yeah 4 of those guys are injured, and Sammy can't be traded because he's in the 1st year of a contract.

 

Edit: and Carlo can't be traded either for the same reason.

Edited by Barrie, 23 February 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[VM1138]

Axe, your solution is to ice an enhanced Griffins team? That won't work come playoffs.

[GoWings1905]

Oops, wrong thread.

Edited by GoWings1905, 23 February 2013 - 08:08 PM.

[Richdg]

Short answer, we need to do both. Just sitting still as we are is not going to win in the PO's. Look at the top 4/5 teams in the WC, we will be lucky to play 5 games if we make it. Just to many holes on the team. There are many things we can and in fact should do. Not sure why we are not, but it is what it is. Some guys should be called up Nyquist and Sheahan, others should be traded: Cleary, Franzen, White, Quincey, Miller, eaves, and maybe Filppula. Get as many draft picks as possible for the 2013 draft. It is the deepest draft in 10 years, and much much better than the next 2 projected drafts.

if we can finsih the season with the following while clearing out all the dead weight, I would be happy:

 

bert-dat-brunner

Nyquist-Z-sammy

Abby-Andersson-tatar

Sheahan-Helm-TooToo

 

Kronwall-lashoff

Ericsson-White

Smith-Kindl

 

howard

 

with Gus, Emmerton and Huskins as backups. After the season, but out Cola and sammy and do everything possible to get Burt to retire. Leaves us with 2 holes 1st line LW and 2nd line RW and a bunch of money to spend.

after moving out our dead weight, work to turn the extra picks and every pick after the 3rd round into 2 more picks in the top 90.

One signing-Dekeyser as soon as WMU's season is over. same with Sproul. get him a taste of the NHL at the end of this season.

[RedWingCraig]

Come St. Patrick's Day we'll have a better idea

[DeGraa55]

We need to do a bit of both. Through trades or this summer in UFA we need a number one defenseman. And a legitimate pf or two. Berts health is a big factor. Is he done? We need to find out. I believe our best lines are:

Bert-z-brunner
Franzen-dats-ufa or acquired thru trade
Nyquist-fil-sammy or cleary
Abby-helm-tootoo

Obviously injuries affect that a lot. Film should be c on third line but since we have no wings healthy on top 2 lines he has to play out of position. With helm out Abby, tootoo and I'd say miller should be 4th. Tatar on the second until someone else is acquired.

That's just my rough idea. Obviously i d prefer no franzen, Sammy or cleary but we can't just trade them for obvious reason. Hopefully a buyout is done on one with the other on Colo.


Smith-ufa
Ericson-kronner
White-kindl

Maybe Quincey over kindl. I'm not a Quincey hater but I do think he is overpaid and wasn't worth a first. But it is what it is. Smith seemed to be really coming on before he got injured. Kronner is a second line guy. Ericsson is 2nd or 3rd guy. Believe its better if he is 3rd but obviously we need the number one which we desperately lack.


Guys I would consider moving are Tatar, nyquiest, franzen and possibly days or film. Personally I want to keep both film and dats but if they don't want to stay better to get something. This is where Holland needs to see what dats plan is. Does he want to stay? Extend him now if not, maybe he want to go to Russia well better to trade him now. Film I think is more obvious to stay but we don't know what these guys are thinking so Holland needs to find out. Better to trade and get value then let them walk with nothing. But that's Hollands biggest weak spot so I don't see it happening. He is stuck in "two moves and we win the cup" mode. Sadly I predict he makes so more minor Quincey like trades that make me want to puke.

Edited by DeGraa55, 24 February 2013 - 12:02 AM.