295 replies to this topic

[King Crane]

Nope. Band will put him with z and Brunner now and he will lead the team in mins. He is to the wings that Inge was to the tigers. And fans are acting the same way.

 

Nice try, you can't fool me, Dan Cleary!

Don't flatter yourself comparing you to Inge.

[haroldsnepsts]

Cleary gets a tipped garbage goal on a PP and suddenly he's awesome?  NOT!  Tatar looks like a 2nd liner, Cleary doesn't.  Tatar scored and played well even strength all night.  Cleary had a better than usual game but he gets the majority of his chances because of Dats.  Hell even Franzen can stand in front of the net.

 

esteef

Quote me a post where someone said he was awesome. 

 

Clearly had a good game tonight and the majority of his chances were not only because of Dats.  And like it or not he gets more time than Tatar because he can play on the PP and the PK.  Like I said before, he's a utility player. 

 

Cleary's been having a rough season but people underestimate the difference between the responsibilities of 10 minutes a night and those of 17+. 

 

Like I said before, he's not been great so far this season, but the bashing here is absurd.

[King Crane]

Quote me a post where someone said he was awesome. 

 

Clearly had a good game tonight and the majority of his chances were not only because of Dats.  And like it or not he gets more time than Tatar because he can play on the PP and the PK.  Like I said before, he's a utility player. 

 

Cleary's been having a rough season but people underestimate the difference between the responsibilities of 10 minutes a night and those of 17+. 

 

Like I said before, he's not been great so far this season, but the bashing here is absurd.

 

Here are a few.  They don't saw he is "awesome", but it's clearly that they think he is worth keeping around and is a good player. 

 

Nope. Band will put him with z and Brunner now and he will lead the team in mins. He is to the wings that Inge was to the tigers. And fans are acting the same way.

 

 

Love seeing my boy Cleary prove all you haters wrong.  

 

 

Aw, Danny.  That's a boy.  Show those haters.

[rrasco]

Everyone had a good game.  Stellar performance by Jimmy.  Good win, now get ready for tomorrow.

[esteef]

Quote me a post where someone said he was awesome. 

 

Clearly had a good game tonight and the majority of his chances were not only because of Dats.  And like it or not he gets more time than Tatar because he can play on the PP and the PK.  Like I said before, he's a utility player. 

 

Cleary's been having a rough season but people underestimate the difference between the responsibilities of 10 minutes a night and those of 17+. 

 

Like I said before, he's not been great so far this season, but the bashing here is absurd.

 

I never quoted you to begin with.  Cleary looked better tonight standing in front of the net but he still looks a gear behind Datsyuk on the 2nd line.  Saying he's good on the PP and PK are ridiculous because Tatar is a far better skill player and speedster than Cleary which would work well for both of those.  To be honest I have less of a problem with Cleary being on the 2nd line than I do with Tatar NOT being on it.  This is the perfect opportunity to see what he can do with skill players while all these other guys are injured.  Cuz you know when Bert and Sammy and Franzen are better, seniority will once again win out and Tatar will either be dropped to bottom lines or sent back to GR.  To see Tatar on the 3rd when Cleary (who HAS pretty much sucked up until tonight) and Abdelkader are on the 2nd is painful.  Hell Tatar almost got Huskins a goal with his skill.  As I said before, Pavs line shouldn't spend the majority of their shift digging the puck out of the boards.  And Cleary is far from "responsible" defensively.

 

esteef

[Crymson]

Cleary is getting PP playtime because Bertuzzi, Franzen, and Samuelsson are all out. Because of the absence of the first two, he is the only player really willing and able to screen the goalie. He's not bad at it; and really, if someone is going to get hit in the face while screening---as happened to Cleary tonight---I'd rather it be him than one of the team's more important scorers. When Franzen returns, Cleary will be off the first PP unit; when Samuelsson and Bertuzzi return, he'll probably be off the PP altogether. Helm's return will likely bump him off the PK as well.

 

Say what you will about how bad Cleary is this season (and you'd be right), but he's willing to do the risky work on special teams in a manner that most players aren't.

 

For those wondering why Tatar isn't playing with Datsyuk, I can come up with two viable reasons: first, Tatar is still small and will get wiped out by the opposition's top pairing; and second, his line is currently producing. I can't fully fathom why Datsyuk is being given Abdelkader and Cleary as linemates, but at least that line rarely registers a goal against. On the subject of Tatar, he's certainly a player to be optimistic about. In my opinion, all previous doubts as to his ability to cut it in the NHL have been wiped out. He's fast, he's got great hands, and he loves to shoot.

Edited by Crymson, 24 February 2013 - 12:41 AM.

[Crymson]

By "garbage goal" I meant the 4th goal late in the game in a 4-0 win.  It definitely took skill.

 

esteef

 

I doubt that you would have referred similarly to a goal scored by any other player under identical circumstances.

[VM1138]

Maybe there was reason behind Babcock's madness in putting Cleary with Datsyuk. Cleary has gotten better, maybe he was having some confidence issues and Datsyuk was the only one skilled enough to carry him until he started coming back to form.

Or maybe he just had a better night than normal. We shall see, but I hope it means he's getting his mind and legs back.

[Nightfall]

I said "...how much better this is without Quincey"  I never said Franzen in that sentence.  Tatar is ready to be here permanently...and not in the bottom 6.  I said keep Franzen off permanently, Kids are way better. But my reference to the team playing better was against Quincey...

 

You did say to bench Franzen permanently, a player that has 9 points in 12 games.  In the last 5 games, without Franzen, they didn't win until last night.

 

Just saying that your Franzen logic makes no sense.

 

I will agree with you on your Quincey logic though.  Has has been horrible.

[Z Winged Dangler]

You did say to bench Franzen permanently, a player that has 9 points in 12 games.  In the last 5 games, without Franzen, they didn't win until last night.

 

Just saying that your Franzen logic makes no sense.

 

I will agree with you on your Quincey logic though.  Has has been horrible.

I've hated Franzen for a couple years now cause of his floating and complete lack of intensity...cause he gets "bored" playing in the NHL.  But this year after the 2nd game of the year, I would have to agree with a lot of people here that Franzen has been really good.  Before his injury he was hitting, hustling and going to the dirty areas and coming out with the puck.  I for one can't wait for him, Helm, Tuzzi and Smith to come back.  Then we can really grade our team.  Lately a D-.  With those guys back we actually have a shot at the playoffs.

[haroldsnepsts]

Here are a few.  They don't saw he is "awesome", but it's clearly that they think he is worth keeping around and is a good player. 

 

Right.  So you agree the examples you chose, no one said he was awesome.  Or really anything close to it. 

 

Worth keeping or good player is a long way from awesome. 

I never quoted you to begin with.  Cleary looked better tonight standing in front of the net but he still looks a gear behind Datsyuk on the 2nd line.  Saying he's good on the PP and PK are ridiculous because Tatar is a far better skill player and speedster than Cleary which would work well for both of those.  To be honest I have less of a problem with Cleary being on the 2nd line than I do with Tatar NOT being on it.  This is the perfect opportunity to see what he can do with skill players while all these other guys are injured.  Cuz you know when Bert and Sammy and Franzen are better, seniority will once again win out and Tatar will either be dropped to bottom lines or sent back to GR.  To see Tatar on the 3rd when Cleary (who HAS pretty much sucked up until tonight) and Abdelkader are on the 2nd is painful.  Hell Tatar almost got Huskins a goal with his skill.  As I said before, Pavs line shouldn't spend the majority of their shift digging the puck out of the boards.  And Cleary is far from "responsible" defensively.

 

esteef

 

My point was no one said he was awesome.  It was making something up to rail against it. 

 

He's definitely a gear behind Datsyuk.  As I've said before he looks slow this year.  I also said he can play on the PP and PK. Not that he was necessarily the top choice for all of them.  It was in the context of me calling him a utility player.  And given the Wings injuries right now, that makes him more valuable than he otherwise would be. 

 

And yes, Cleary is responsible defensively at 17 minutes a night.  Especially compared to some of the players people want to put on the 2nd line above him, like Tootoo.  When the Wings get healthier, I would guess his minutes will come down unless he plays like he did last night. 

 

My main point was he had a good game last night and that the Cleary bashing has become sport regardless of what he actually does or doesn't do during a game. 

[shoobiedoobin]

I've hated Franzen for a couple years now cause of his floating and complete lack of intensity...cause he gets "bored" playing in the NHL.  But this year after the 2nd game of the year, I would have to agree with a lot of people here that Franzen has been really good.  Before his injury he was hitting, hustling and going to the dirty areas and coming out with the puck.  I for one can't wait for him, Helm, Tuzzi and Smith to come back.  Then we can really grade our team.  Lately a D-.  With those guys back we actually have a shot at the playoffs.

Franzen has still been lazy. It's just a matter of perspective. He's not floating as much, but he's still floating. But this is like getting kicked in the junk over and over-you'd be glad for a simple punch in the head as an improvement. 

[esteef]

My point was no one said he was awesome.  It was making something up to rail against it. 

 

He's definitely a gear behind Datsyuk.  As I've said before he looks slow this year.  I also said he can play on the PP and PK. Not that he was necessarily the top choice for all of them.  It was in the context of me calling him a utility player.  And given the Wings injuries right now, that makes him more valuable than he otherwise would be. 

 

And yes, Cleary is responsible defensively at 17 minutes a night.  Especially compared to some of the players people want to put on the 2nd line above him, like Tootoo.  When the Wings get healthier, I would guess his minutes will come down unless he plays like he did last night. 

 

My main point was he had a good game last night and that the Cleary bashing has become sport regardless of what he actually does or doesn't do during a game. 

 

Tatar - Datsyuk - Cleary

 

esteef

[Johnz96]

You did say to bench Franzen permanently, a player that has 9 points in 12 games.  In the last 5 games, without Franzen, they didn't win until last night.

 

Just saying that your Franzen logic makes no sense.

 

I will agree with you on your Quincey logic though.  Has has been horrible.

You mean Kyle +10 Quincey?

[GoWings1905]

You mean Kyle +10 Quincey?

To prove the uselessness of that stat, Jonathan Ericsson is just +2 on the season and he has easily been the Wings best d-man. Kindl, who can't hold down a regular spot in the lineup, is also +6.

Quincey has improved his play slightly since the first game against the Blues, but he still hasn't been good. He's an offensive minded defenseman with no points in 17 games.

[Johnz96]

To prove the uselessness of that stat, Jonathan Ericsson is just +2 on the season and he has easily been the Wings best d-man. Kindl, who can't hold down a regular spot in the lineup, is also +6.

Quincey has improved his play slightly since the first game against the Blues, but he still hasn't been good. He's an offensive minded defenseman with no points in 17 games.

He hasn't been given much PP ice-time. Weber only had 1 point at 15 games and he gets a lot more ice-time and a lot more PP time.

Although I agree +/- is a very fluky stat and isn't very indicative of a player's performance, surly you can't be a +10 at this point of the season on a team that has scored fewer goals than it's allowed and be horrible.

Other than the first few he games he has looked pretty good to me.