96 replies to this topic

[The Axe]

Brunner currently has more points and goals than Perry and would cost way less to re-sign than to bring in Perry.  Not saying I wouldn't like him here, but realistically I think Holland will re-sign Brunner, Flip and Howard and look for help on D if anyone is available.  Lots of veteran D-men available this summer (if they don't sign new contracts before then...) who would be an upgrade over Cola and Huskins. 

Wait. We have just finished the easiest opening schedule EVER. All of our rah rah is about to get a serious shake up. Not hating. Just being practical. Perry is a 5 tool player with a Hart trophy. Comparing Brunner to him is laughable at this stage.

[LeftWinger]

Wait. We have just finished the easiest opening schedule EVER. All of our rah rah is about to get a serious shake up. Not hating. Just being practical. Perry is a 5 tool player with a Hart trophy. Comparing Brunner to him is laughable at this stage.

 

Hey they are comparing Tatar to Brett Hull as well....

 

I like Brunner and Tatar and think they have long future's here in the NHL, but Perry and Hull they are not...

 

Hey Brunner has more goal than Sidney Crosby too....

[Wings_Toledo]

Wait. We have just finished the easiest opening schedule EVER. All of our rah rah is about to get a serious shake up. Not hating. Just being practical. Perry is a 5 tool player with a Hart trophy. Comparing Brunner to him is laughable at this stage.

 

I wasn't trying to compare the two, just pointing out that Brunner has the ability to produce and would be way cheaper to re-sign than to try and acquire Perry or sign him as a FA.  Obviously Perry is the all-around better player, but if we're being realistic we all know that some other team will overpay to have him or he'll just re-sign with Anaheim because they have the cap space.

 

When healthy, the Wings already have a competitive top six.  I'm not so sure Holland will be looking to add any pieces to that part of the roster, but we'll see what happens as the season draws closer to the trade deadline.

[Red Wings Addict]

What are our thoughts on Iginla?  Think he has any interest in being a Red Wing?  Or even leaving Calgary at all?

 

I could certainly see how him in Pittsburgh would be like a dream scenario for both parties. 

[St. Michael (the Red Wing)]

I'll pass on Iginla. Rental player if traded (hunch). No thanks cause he won't come cheap either. However my gut feeling says he doesn't get traded from Calgary.

[Red Wings Addict]

I'll pass on Iginla. Rental player if traded (hunch). No thanks cause he won't come cheap either. However my gut feeling says he doesn't get traded from Calgary.

 

Well no I meant as a free agent. 

[St. Michael (the Red Wing)]

Well no I meant as a free agent. 

 

My bad. No facts to back it up but in my opinion says he stays in Calgary. lol

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 26 February 2013 - 10:32 PM.

[The Axe]

 
I wasn't trying to compare the two, just pointing out that Brunner has the ability to produce and would be way cheaper to re-sign than to try and acquire Perry or sign him as a FA.  Obviously Perry is the all-around better player, but if we're being realistic we all know that some other team will overpay to have him or he'll just re-sign with Anaheim because they have the cap space.
 
When healthy, the Wings already have a competitive top six.  I'm not so sure Holland will be looking to add any pieces to that part of the roster, but we'll see what happens as the season draws closer to the trade deadline.

This just isnt true. Our top 6 is old, weak, and slow. If I were rating them on a 1 to 10 scale, Id do it like this:

Franzen = 6
Zetterberg = 8
Filppula = 6
Samuelsson = 4
Datsyuk = 9
Bertuzzi = 4

Perry = 9
Semin = 7

Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner
Perrry-Datsyuk-Tatar
Semin-Helm-Filppula
Andersson-Emmerton-Tootoo

Too bad Samuelsson and Bertuzzi got multiple years and overpaid. Those 2 contracts hurt the most, in my opinion.

[Richdg]

Bert and Sammy are only signed for one more season each. Vs Franzen who has 7 years left after this year, and Z also has 7 or 8. Plus Kronwalls 7 years..... All 3 are signed untill they are 40, and make a combined 14 million. There is a strong chance we will be paying all 3 for a few years after they retire. Let me rephrase that. We will be taking cap hits from all 3 for a few years after they are retired. Those are bad contracts. Just becasue Nicky played forever, doesn't mean those 3 can. But water under the bridge.

 

As for FA's there are a few. 6 that i like. Let's see if 1. they all become FA's, and 2. if we are able to land a big fish or 2.....

[The Axe]

Sammy has 2 years left

[Red Wings Addict]

Sammy has 2 years left

 

You scared me for a sec.  Naw it's one. 

 

http://www.capgeek.com/redwings

[DSM]

This just isnt true. Our top 6 is old, weak, and slow. If I were rating them on a 1 to 10 scale, Id do it like this:

Franzen = 6
Zetterberg = 8
Filppula = 6
Samuelsson = 4
Datsyuk = 9
Bertuzzi = 4

Perry = 9
Semin = 7

Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner
Perrry-Datsyuk-Tatar
Semin-Helm-Filppula
Andersson-Emmerton-Tootoo

Too bad Samuelsson and Bertuzzi got multiple years and overpaid. Those 2 contracts hurt the most, in my opinion.

 

How?

 

Combined, Bertuzzi and Samuelsson cost $5mil against the cap. I'd say that's a bargain cosidering that when they are healthy, they can contribute 15+ goals each, add good size to the team, and can play well in their own zone. And when everyone is healthy, they would be floating between the 2nd and 3rd line. The Red Wings would have a hard time finding two younger replacements for the same price that offer the same assetts.

 

They're also only under contract for one more season. Does it suck that they get hurt? Sure. But if they're hurt, it'll give a younger player that everyone whines about not being on the team, an opportunity to come up and play for the big club.

Edited by DSM, 27 February 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[The Axe]

 
How?
 
Combined, Bertuzzi and Samuelsson cost $5mil against the cap. I'd say that's a bargain cosidering that when they are healthy, they can contribute 15+ goals each, add good size to the team, and can play well in their own zone. And when everyone is healthy, they would be floating between the 2nd and 3rd line. The Red Wings would have a hard time finding two younger replacements for the same price that offer the same assetts.
 
They're also only under contract for one more season. Does it suck that they get hurt? Sure. But if they're hurt, it'll give a younger player that everyone whines about not being on the team, an opportunity to come up and play for the big club.

15 goals with Dats or Z is a joke. Thats like saying 3 TD catches a year on the Patriots is good. Its not good. Its the bare minimum. Brunner is on pace for 25, and he doesnt even know what he's doing out there yet.

[DSM]

15 goals with Dats or Z is a joke. Thats like saying 3 TD catches a year on the Patriots is good. Its not good. Its the bare minimum. Brunner is on pace for 25, and he doesnt even know what he's doing out there yet.

 

Not surprisingly, you missed the point of my post entirely.

 

So now I ask you: Realistically, what two players could Holland get for a combined $5mil or less cap hit that would pot more than "15 goals with Dats or Z" and provide everything else that Bertuzzi and Samuelsson bring?

Edited by DSM, 27 February 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

1. Pavel Datsyuk
2. Henrik Zetterberg
3. Damien Brunner (Likely re-signed)
4. Johan Franzen
5. Valtteri Filppula (FA)
6. Dan Cleary (FA)
7. Todd Bertuzzi
8. Mikael Samuelsson
9. Darren Helm
10. Justin Abdelkader
11. Jordin Tootoo
12. Drew Miller (FA)
13. Cory Emmerton
14. Patrick Eaves
15. Gustav Nyquist
16. Tomas Tatar
17. Joakim Andersson

What is the chance that we see a buyout (preferably Samuelsson)? There are simply too many forwards. Who deserves to stay up? Tatar? Andersson? How will we make room for them without buying out Bertuzzi and Samuelsson?

[DSM]

1. Pavel Datsyuk
2. Henrik Zetterberg
3. Damien Brunner (Likely re-signed)
4. Johan Franzen
5. Valtteri Filppula (FA)
6. Dan Cleary (FA)
7. Todd Bertuzzi
8. Mikael Samuelsson
9. Darren Helm
10. Justin Abdelkader
11. Jordin Tootoo
12. Drew Miller (FA)
13. Cory Emmerton
14. Patrick Eaves
15. Gustav Nyquist
16. Tomas Tatar
17. Joakim Andersson

What is the chance that we see a buyout (preferably Samuelsson)? There are simply too many forwards. Who deserves to stay up? Tatar? Andersson? How will we make room for them without buying out Bertuzzi and Samuelsson?

 

Cleary and Miller probably won't be resigned.

 

Nyquist will probably start in GR since he will still be waiver exempt.

 

No buyouts.

[mackel]

 
Not surprisingly, you missed the point of my post entirely.
 
So now I ask you: Realistically, what two players could Holland get for a combined $5mil or less cap hit that would pot more than "15 goals with Dats or Z" and provide everything else that Bertuzzi and Samuelsson bring?

Aside from medical expenses and blocking a roster spot form younger player, what is it exactly that they bring?

Edited by mackel, 27 February 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[DSM]

Aside from medical expenses and blocking a roster spot form younger player, what is it exactly that they bring?

 

Oh boy, the "blocking a spot from a young player" angle  

 

You apparently didn't read the post that Axe was responding too. Go back and read it. K THX.

[Z Winged Dangler]

Bert and Sammy are only signed for one more season each. Vs Franzen who has 7 years left after this year, and Z also has 7 or 8. Plus Kronwalls 7 years..... All 3 are signed untill they are 40, and make a combined 14 million. There is a strong chance we will be paying all 3 for a few years after they retire. Let me rephrase that. We will be taking cap hits from all 3 for a few years after they are retired. Those are bad contracts. Just becasue Nicky played forever, doesn't mean those 3 can. But water under the bridge.

 

As for FA's there are a few. 6 that i like. Let's see if 1. they all become FA's, and 2. if we are able to land a big fish or 2.....

 Not true.  All 3 guys signed before the age of 35 so when they retire, their cap hit disappears from the books.  Not like Pronger in Philly  .  I just hope that the guys we have contracts expiring on this year, we let go and try to get good depth guys like Scuderi.  Not sure there's any spots open on forward or D, but hey, there's always GR for guys who don't measure up.  Sproul and Ouellet will likely be the top unit there next season and hopefully only there for 1 year.

[DSM]

 Not true.  All 3 guys signed before the age of 35 so when they retire, their cap hit disappears from the books.  Not like Pronger in Philly  .  I just hope that the guys we have contracts expiring on this year, we let go and try to get good depth guys like Scuderi.  Not sure there's any spots open on forward or D, but hey, there's always GR for guys who don't measure up.  Sproul and Ouellet will likely be the top unit there next season and hopefully only there for 1 year.

 

Should be interesting to see what Holland does if he wants to open up spots.

 

Lets consider:

-If you leave out UFA's (Filppula, Cleary, White, Howard, Brunner, Huskins and Miller)

-It's a good bet that all RFA's minus Mursak have a pretty much 100% chance of being re-signed (Andersson, Kindl and Smith)

-Factor in that Tatar, Andersson and Lashoff can no longer go to GR without hitting waivers

 

You end up with 20 players on the roster (12 Forwards, 7 Dmen, and 1 Goalie). That leaves 3 spots open. Obviously, the Wings priority at this time is to re-sign Howard, Brunner and Filppula. Which takes up the 3 open spots.

 

The Red Wings will have to make some moves if they want to make upgrades. However, I doubt they will go the buyout route.

Edited by DSM, 28 February 2013 - 10:43 AM.