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Brunner Equals Clutch/Work on Signing *merged


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#61 T.Low

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:00 PM

People keep saying Brunner needs defence blah blah blah. He was not brought in to be a two way forward like Datsyuk, we have enough of those, he was brought in to be a straight up scorer, and that is what babs expects from him. Sure he could work on his defensive game a bit too, but he is still better defensively than Franzen, and works his tail off night in and night out, and thats all I want is for him to work hard and put some pucks in the net. So far so good.

 

 

He needs to be better, especially when you consider how many games go into OT which, at 4 on 4, puts much more importance on defensive responsibility.  On Leddy's OT goal, Brunner looked only slightly better than Lion's kicker Janson Hanson trying to tackle Devon Hester  as the last defender on a kick return. 

 

Yes, Brunner's head was on a swivel,  and was aware of Leddy trailing the play, but then didn't seem to know what to do.  He let  himself be drawn towards the puck carrier (Toews) even though Kronner was already marking him.  That took him out of position to make any real play on the trailer Leddy and badda bing badda boom, game over.  I don't want to sound arrogant, but let's face it, that's just basic defense.

 

I like that I see him hustling and working hard, but at the same time, there is a lot of room for impovement.  I've yet to see him put his head down and sprint all out on a back check, a la Marian Hossa.



#62 Euro_Twins

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:05 PM

He needs to be better, especially when you consider how many games go into OT which, at 4 on 4, puts much more importance on defensive responsibility.  On Leddy's OT goal, Brunner looked only slightly better than Lion's kicker Janson Hanson trying to tackle Devon Hester  as the last defender on a kick return. 

 

Yes, Brunner's head was on a swivel,  and was aware of Leddy trailing the play, but then didn't seem to know what to do.  He let  himself be drawn towards the puck carrier (Toews) even though Kronner was already marking him.  That took him out of position to make any real play on the trailer Leddy and badda bing badda boom, game over.  I don't want to sound arrogant, but let's face it, that's just basic defense.

 

I like that I see him hustling and working hard, but at the same time, there is a lot of room for impovement.  I've yet to see him put his head down and sprint all out on a back check, a la Marian Hossa.

 

Like I said he definitely can work on his defense, he is already better than Franzen at it. It will come, he is new to the NA game, give him some time and he will be ok defensively, but he was brought in to be a sniper, not an elite two way forward like Hossa or Datsyuk, he is a work horse that wants very badly to score all the time, and Datsyuk will help him become better on his 2-way game, but I like that he is a bit selfish with the puck and just wants to go score, we need that



#63 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

I never said he was a 2 way forward, if you read my comment that you quoted the guys I mentioned I said were solid defensively, you said 2 way forward

 

EDIT: I think we are arguing the same point, I just saw you wrote our bottom 6 is good defensively but can't score lol, which was basically what I was saying too. Miller put up 14 goals last year, Eaves is good for 10-15 goals thats not bad for bottom 6 guys.

 

Fair enough. Back on topic with Brunner still like him regardless of his defensive play. How many goals you think Brunner scores for us this season?



#64 T.Low

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:12 PM

Am I joking about what? Helm is our best bottom six guy and duh penalty killer too. Calling him a great two forward isn't really accurate. He can't finish. He's better defensively than offensively. Bert is the opposite. Hence when I quoted you, you said we have plenty of two way forwards on this team. I disagree with you on that. Opinion of course.

 

 

 

Agree with you about Helmer, of course.

 

Disagree with you about Bertuzzi.  Totally. 

 

Bert is a smart forechecker, gives a lot of effort to get that big slow(ish) body back on the backchecks, has  great stick work,  can see plays before they develop which allows him to get into passing lanes, can lay the body and play the body, and can shut down.  Even Babs has talked about how Berts defensive game is truely great, having totally morphed since coming to Detroit.  Not to mention that with his years of experince in the league, he's seen a lot of everyone in the league and knows everyone's strenghts and weaknesses and tendencies.

 

It's a Brunner thread, so I'm going to refrain from getting into how underrated and under valued Bert is by so many o LGW.



#65 T.Low

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

...with Brunner still like him regardless of his defensive play.

 

 

Suffice it to say, we all agree with that statement, and we are all totally psyched to have a shoot first, ask questions later forward,  like Euro Twin said.  Defense can be taught, but the nose for the net Brunner has is a natural mindset.

 

We're just nitpicking the degree of D we want him to have at this point in time.

 

Edit:  To be fair, since I'm saying he lacks the D that Hossa has, he seems to get in better Offensive positions than Hossa did and has a much better shot selection and seems to better a much better passer for a "shoot first sniper".  As much as I like Hossa, he had these tendencies to just throw the puck at the net as soon as he got it no matter where he was.  He'd be at the frikin blue line with his back to the net and two guys on him and he'd chuck it at the net without even looking for an open teammate.  Not like once in a while either, but way too often.


Edited by T.Low, 28 January 2013 - 02:30 PM.


#66 St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

Suffice it to say, we agree with that statement, and we are all totally psyched to have a shoot first, ask questions later forward, too, like Euro Twin said.  Defense can be taught, but the nose for the net he has is natural mindset.

 

Well said friends I agree with you 100%.

 

I keep waiting for that break out game "hopefully" Brunner has. 2 goals 2 assist type of night :P



#67 Euro_Twins

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:35 PM

Fair enough. Back on topic with Brunner still like him regardless of his defensive play. How many goals you think Brunner scores for us this season?

 

This season is hard to say as he is still adjusting, but i wouls say around 15-20

 

next year however he could easily be 30+



#68 The Axe

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:30 PM

People keep saying Brunner needs defence blah blah blah. He was not brought in to be a two way forward like Datsyuk, we have enough of those, he was brought in to be a straight up scorer, and that is what babs expects from him. Sure he could work on his defensive game a bit too, but he is still better defensively than Franzen, and works his tail off night in and night out, and thats all I want is for him to work hard and put some pucks in the net. So far so good.


I never say that. I just dont think hes the offensive dynamo everyone is making him out to be. We will see.

#69 evilzyme

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:42 PM

He needs to be better, especially when you consider how many games go into OT which, at 4 on 4, puts much more importance on defensive responsibility.  On Leddy's OT goal, Brunner looked only slightly better than Lion's kicker Janson Hanson trying to tackle Devon Hester  as the last defender on a kick return. 

 

I was questioning Babcock when he first had Brunner out on the 4 vs. 4. I immediately thought he was crazy due to his defensive game but then a new thought had dawned on me. While he may not be the best defensively, 4 on 4 also creates space similar to european ice. The boy knows how to use space when given to him, it's what he's been trained on all this time. So in reality, I think he was more on the 4 on 4 to just go score goals, then to think about defense. Babcock most likely sees his offensive game outweighing his defensive game. I agree that he needs to work on defense, but we have 3-4 year veterans on this lineup that still have problems selecting whom they are responsible for in the zone. 


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#70 Mater_Horn

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:13 PM

Like I said he definitely can work on his defense, he is already better than Franzen at it. It will come, he is new to the NA game, give him some time and he will be ok defensively

 

I wonder what makes you think he'll become better definsively. It's got nothing to do with "adjustment", rink size or no-contact-league-Switzerland (or whatever you'll call it, and looking at the first few NHL games and the ref calls, that may not hold true): Brunner never was and never will be solid defensively. He got used to playing in a line with the best players available, and he'll be able to score a lot more than he has thus far with the Wings. In that sense, yes, give him a little more time to adjust.

That said, the defensemen and goalies in the NHL are - on average - a tad bit better than in the Swiss league, so we'll have to see how he deals with this (and in the long run, how opponent's defence deals with HIM).

In any case, he'll be good for Detroit, but probably not on pk and 4-4 because of his immense deficits in the defense.


Edited by Mater_Horn, 28 January 2013 - 08:16 PM.


#71 Euro_Twins

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:20 PM

I wonder what makes you think he'll become better definsively. It's got nothing to do with "adjustment", rink size or no-contact-league-Switzerland (or whatever you'll call it, and looking at the first few NHL games and the ref calls, that may not hold true): Brunner never was and never will be solid defensively. He got used to playing in a line with the best players available, and he'll be able to score a lot more than he has thus far with the Wings. In that sense, yes, give him a little more time to adjust.

That said, the defensemen and goalies in the NHL are - on average - a tad bit better than in the Swiss league, so we'll have to see how he deals with this (and in the long run, how opponent's defence deals with HIM).

In any case, he'll be good for Detroit, but probably not on pk and 4-4 because of his immense deficits in the defense.

 

I understand your point and what you were getting at, but if memory serves correctly, there was a certain captain of ours for 20 years that started off a pure goal scorer that could not for the life of him backcheck whatsoever, yet he was turned into one of the best 2-way forwards in the league. Granted he had scotty as a coach, but I'm sure if Brunner is willing he can be taught how to be a little more responsible defensively. I just don't want him to be afraid of taking risks to score



#72 Mater_Horn

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:34 PM

[...] I'm sure if Brunner is willing he can be taught how to be a little more responsible defensively. I just don't want him to be afraid of taking risks to score

 

Whenever I see him "floating around" in situations where it would be appropriate to attack/disturb, I hope he'll overcome his instincts, and just goes for the man/puck, which is the most ordinary thing in the hockey world. He's 26, but apparently, he still has to "learn" that (huh?!). IMO, he needs to do start doing these things, or there'll be no one who can really afford to have him on the team...

No worries, he's not gonna be afraid to shoot whenever he thinks he can score. And he'll be good at this :bye:



#73 T.Low

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:11 PM

I wonder what makes you think he'll become better definsively. It's got nothing to do with "adjustment", rink size or no-contact-league-Switzerland (or whatever you'll call it, and looking at the first few NHL games and the ref calls, that may not hold true): Brunner never was and never will be solid defensively. He got used to playing in a line with the best players available, and he'll be able to score a lot more than he has thus far with the Wings. In that sense, yes, give him a little more time to adjust.

That said, the defensemen and goalies in the NHL are - on average - a tad bit better than in the Swiss league, so we'll have to see how he deals with this (and in the long run, how opponent's defence deals with HIM).

In any case, he'll be good for Detroit, but probably not on pk and 4-4 because of his immense deficits in the defense.

 

 

He looks too hard nosed not to want to play D, especially when he can learn from some of the best ever.  He comes from a league where it seems defense is not really required of forwards, but i think he knows that if he wants to stay here, he'll have to learn.  As posted above, we've seen scoring forwards go through the learning process here before,  a guy who scored 150 points as a matter of fact.  So, it's kind of expected of Detroit players now. 



#74 The Axe

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:14 PM

Calling brunner hard nosed is funny. Thst schnoz is a beaut, clark!!

#75 Euro_Twins

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:23 PM

I'm calling it, 2 goals and an assist for Brunner tonight in a 4-1 win over the stars :)



#76 Euro_Twins

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

I'm calling it, 2 goals and an assist for Brunner tonight in a 4-1 win over the stars :)

 

Well Brunner got 1 goal, but I got the score right, 4-1 :)



#77 The Axe

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:16 AM

 
Well Brunner got 1 goal, but I got the score right, 4-1 :)


Good call, brother!

#78 b.shanafan14

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:22 AM

For a guy on the small side coming from the Swiss league, I'm personally shocked and impressed by how well his complete game has developed stateside. He still makes a rookie mistake here and there as far as assignments on a rush, but that will come in time. I love how he uses his speed to hound the puck carrier on the forecheck, forcing their hand. Last night alone he forced the Stars defense into coughing up the puck 2-3 times with numbers back and only Brunner and *gulp* Franzen back on the forecheck, even forcing an interference penalty (albeit a soft one). Then look at the goal he scored, doing the Holmer thing in front of the net, of all things. I don't think I've seen him shy away from the center of the ice in the ozone yet.

Overall, as someone who was on the "wait and see, don't get over excited" side with Brunner in the off-season, I think he's been great. The only thing I'd really like to see is for him to move more during the powerplay, provide an outlet when it's needed, and use that great shot from the point from time to time to create chances for his PP linemates. Sometimes he just skates to the goalline and waits or sits in the slot between the defensive box where he can't really get the puck or a shot off while the rest of the line passes around the perimeter. He has the right idea, but needs to move more, keep the defense moving, and give his teammates different looks.

Other than that minor adjustment, a coaching thing, the kid has really impressed me!

#79 kipwinger

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:24 AM

Really impressed with the deflection goal last night.  Takes a lot of guts to go to the crease and make that play.  I will agree with Shanahan above though, I'd really like Brunner to be attacking more on the power play.  I think he's still getting used to being an equal partner on that unit, and so he's looking to pass or one time the puck.  But how many times have you seen Dats or Zetterberg attacking the net, forcing the defense to respond, and then getting the puck to the open man, or putting it in the net when the defense fails to commit to them?  Brunner has the skill to do that too.  Hopefully that part of his games comes with a little more time. 

 

Good play so far though.  As others have said, a little bit to learn on the defensive end of things.  But I agree that this part of his game will come too.  Forwards aren't really required to play defense in most euro leagues...but that doesn't mean they can't. 


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#80 Euro_Twins

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:22 AM

I just watched a few interviews with him and while he already has wayyyy better english than pasha and homer combined, I can't help but wonder what happened to his bottom right teeth, it seems as though he is missing 2 or 3, wonder if he got em knocked out in a fight or by a puck. Also looks like his nose has been broken a few times lol

 

Here is the interview, it was after his shootout goal

 


Edited by Euro_Twins, 30 January 2013 - 10:23 AM.






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