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3/3 GDT : Blackhawks 2 at Red Wings 1 (SO)

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#881 esteef

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:28 PM

I don't like the line, but I do think it has stayed because of defense. That is, Babs might not trust Tatar to play against Toews, Thornton, Kopitar, etc. I think Dats and Abby/Cleary could makeup for any of Tatar's deficiencies, but that's the only explanation I can think of. Flip should return and the line will be split.

 

The 2nd line also has better D pairings with them so I don't think it's Tatar's defense that's any kind of issue.  Plus, Abby is no defensive dynamo either and doesn't even play on the PK.  Tatar skates super fast which can usually make up for defensive mistakes anyway.  I simply think it's the stupid "seniority" rule.  Tatar is newer and therefore cannot move up ahead of certain "other players" no matter how good he is.  Even when it is painfully obvious he should be.

 

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#882 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:31 PM

I think it will happen soon, There hasn't been a huge need to change things up as we aren't out of the playoff hunt by a scary margin. Once the risk of being out of the playoffs overtakes the risk of losing an asset they will make the necessary moves. Right now I think they are trying their best to get value out of some of these guys.

 

I can understand not having Nyquist up as you would have to lose someone that at the very least could be worth a pick, but playing Abby and Cleary with Datsyuk has a sign of a Babcock protest to me. I really haven't  had a chance to study Babcock's interviews, but just based on his line and who he is playing it wouldn't be the first time a coach has tried a line combination to force a GM's hand.

 

It's true that we aren't out of the playoff race as of now....I wonder where we would be if Datsyuk had an actual scorer to play with instead of two grinders...With the way Chicago is playing, we wouldn't be any higher than 4th, BUT we'd have a good amount more points and be more solidly in 4th..



The 2nd line also has better D pairings with them so I don't think it's Tatar's defense that's any kind of issue.  Plus, Abby is no defensive dynamo either and doesn't even play on the PK.  Tatar skates super fast which can usually make up for defensive mistakes anyway.  I simply think it's the stupid "seniority" rule.  Tatar is newer and therefore cannot move up ahead of certain "other players" no matter how good he is.  Even when it is painfully obvious he should be.

 

esteef

 

 

Yet Brunner steps right in to a top 6 roll...and proves himself worthy of it...Babcock is baffling...


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#883 Carman

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:31 PM

It's true that we aren't out of the playoff race as of now....I wonder where we would be if Datsyuk had an actual scorer to play with instead of two grinders...With the way Chicago is playing, we wouldn't be any higher than 4th, BUT we'd have a good amount more points and be more solidly in 4th..

Datsyuk should be able to make the players around him better.



#884 esteef

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:34 PM

Yet Brunner steps right in to a top 6 roll...and proves himself worthy of it...Babcock is baffling...

 

Brunner didn't come from GR either.  In other words, he never had to climb up the hierarchy.  Plus he's not signed either is he?  He gets ice time or potentially walks.

 

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#885 Hockeymom1960

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:34 PM

Datsyuk should be able to make the players around him better.

 

I don't believe it's for a lack of trying.  They have to be responsible also and they are trying but it isn't happening.



#886 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:37 PM

Datsyuk should be able to make the players around him better.

 

Well, I guess, but it seems that Cleary and Abby are just dragging him down.  Maybe if one of them were there Dats could make that one player better, but when both players are clearly in a whole different class than him, Dats can just shake his head when he makes a great play only to have Cleary screw it up or Abby whiff on the shot...



Brunner didn't come from GR either.  In other words, he never had to climb up the hierarchy.  Plus he's not signed either is he?  He gets ice time or potentially walks.

 

esteef

 

For sure, but my point being Brunner was put there and proved himself worthy...Tatar wouldn't waste to opportunity either.  He is already proving he belongs in the NHL, but if given the same playing time as Franzia, I think he plays just as good as Brunner and renders Franzia useless...which he already is anyway.


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#887 esteef

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:39 PM

Datsyuk should be able to make the players around him better.

 

The players at least have to be able to keep up with him.  Not only can they not skate with Pavs, they don't have the same offensive mind to hang with his moves and passing to be in the right place to succeed.  They fumble passes and struggle in the corners the entire shift.  You can actually see Datsyuk hesitate to pass to them knowing the drive will likely die if he gives the puck up.  A lot of value could be gained by simply switching Abby and Tatar.  Cleary can continue to dig in the corners and front the goalie and Dats would have someone at his talent level to work the magic.

 

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#888 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:45 PM

It all seems so easy for us...wonder what the motive is for Babcock....seriously.  He has to know that Tatar is better than Abby and Cleary, and he has to see what we all see.  I just wonder what is the motive....I don't get it. There is a reason that I am not the coach and he is, but I just don't get it...


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#889 Carman

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:47 PM

Well, I guess, but it seems that Cleary and Abby are just dragging him down.  Maybe if one of them were there Dats could make that one player better, but when both players are clearly in a whole different class than him, Dats can just shake his head when he makes a great play only to have Cleary screw it up or Abby whiff on the shot...

 

I agree, but they are just buying time to have 3 of our top 6 come back healthy. Whatever you think of Filpulla, Bertuzzi or Samuelsson they are proven to be reliable secondary scoring, and that's a lot of it that's off the ice for the Wings.

 

Babcock might just be think that Tatar's line is playing well enough(which they really are), that he doesn't want to disrupt it's chemistry. And just puts out Abby-Cleary-Datsyuk to be defensively responsible, and hopefully have Cleary deflect a Datsyuk shot as he falls down. And just use this line until Filpulla/Bert/Sammy get healthy.

 

Honestly I'm just trying to rationalize it, because it makes no sense to me. Tatar only had 8:15 minutes of ice time today, with a goal. Abby had 13, and 17 against San Jose. Daniel Carcillo almost had more ice time than Tatar. It's just criminal. And this solely falls on Babcock. Which is disheartening, I can usual understand his decisions, but this one is completely baffling to me. Sadly the only thing that I can try to think of that would make some semblence of sense is Babcock is protesting, but that's so far out there I refuse to believe it unless Babcock comes right out and says it.



#890 brett

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:48 PM

datsyuk should be able to pick the players he wants on his line



#891 beachwing

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:49 PM

It all seems so easy for us...wonder what the motive is for Babcock....seriously.  He has to know that Tatar is better than Abby and Cleary, and he has to see what we all see.  I just wonder what is the motive....I don't get it. There is a reason that I am not the coach and he is, but I just don't get it...


My sentiments exactly....has to be a legitimate reason for Babs insistence on this line pairing.

#892 esteef

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:50 PM

What's worse is when Bert, Sammy and Flip all come back, say bye bye to Tatar. :thumbdown:

 

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#893 beachwing

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:55 PM

Ugh....those three better light it up or I may finally become one of the wing bashers and join in the hate here at LGR

#894 esteef

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:01 PM

Ugh....those three better light it up or I may finally become one of the wing bashers and join in the hate here at LGR

 

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#895 rrasco

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:09 PM

My sentiments exactly....has to be a legitimate reason for Babs insistence on this line pairing.

 

I've been trying to figure this one out too.  I am going to give Babs the benefit of the doubt and hope he's keeping Tatar on the 3rd line for scoring depth.  I just don't understand 11 and 8 there without that.  I know we have injuries, but jeez.


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#896 matt198913

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:26 PM

When Bert gets back or if he gets back he should replace Abby immediately. I can't see Tartar going anywhere. He's got a bit of Danny Briere in him. Babcock isn't stupid when Sammy gets back Sammy goes on waivers.


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#897 esteef

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:28 PM

I've been trying to figure this one out too.  I am going to give Babs the benefit of the doubt and hope he's keeping Tatar on the 3rd line for scoring depth.  I just don't understand 11 and 8 there without that.  I know we have injuries, but jeez.

 

I thought of the scoring depth angle too but for that to work at a minimum your top 2 lines need to be scoring, otherwise you are just spreading your offense too thin.  Lately the top 2 lines are not scoring.  The mystery continues.

 

esteef


Edited by esteef, 03 March 2013 - 10:29 PM.

"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#898 LeftWinger

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:42 PM

When Bert gets back or if he gets back he should replace Abby immediately. I can't see Tartar going anywhere. He's got a bit of Danny Briere in him. Babcock isn't stupid when Sammy gets back Sammy goes on waivers.

 

I doubt it.  Besides it's not Babcock that makes that decision...and Holland loves him some Sammy...it is SOP in this organization that as long as the player has options to be sent down, he will. No matter the skill he possesses...when all forwards are healthy, Tatar and Andersson will go back to GR...unless they make it to the time of year when you are allowed to expand your roster. Stupid, yes, but that's Hollands MO.



Hey here's a thought...maybe we are all reading it wrong....maybe Tatar IS in the top 6 and Datsyuk got demoted to the bottom 6....hmmmm.....


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#899 GMRwings1983

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:55 PM

Leave Britn.............................I mean Cleary alone.

 

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Edited by GMRwings1983, 03 March 2013 - 10:55 PM.

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#900 joesuffP

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 12:46 AM

Babcock wants to keep scoring depth and size in the top 6. If not size then strength atleast. Most of the good teams in the league have a lot bigger top 6 it's an obvious weakness of ours. What Tatar and Andersson is doing on the 3rd line is good for their development and for the team. Abdelkader has absolutely no offensive ability but he's strong enough to hang with most teams top 6. We're keeping the puck out of our net this way and I think that's what Babcock wants. Flip will replace Abdelkader. Babcock doesn't think Abdelkader is a legitimate top 6 but he is filling in for our injuries he will go back down to the bottom 6 soon enough

And honestly I don't have a huge problem with Cleary up there. He's good in our own end and can knock people off the puck and a good cycler. I'd rather be sound defensively with structure throughout the lineup and I'm seeing it these last three games





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