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3/3 GDT : Blackhawks 2 at Red Wings 1 (SO)

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#901 WINGS & FLOW

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:03 AM

Babcock wants to keep scoring depth and size in the top 6. If not size then strength atleast. Most of the good teams in the league have a lot bigger top 6 it's an obvious weakness of ours. What Tatar and Andersson is doing on the 3rd line is good for their development and for the team. Abdelkader has absolutely no offensive ability but he's strong enough to hang with most teams top 6. We're keeping the puck out of our net this way and I think that's what Babcock wants. Flip will replace Abdelkader. Babcock doesn't think Abdelkader is a legitimate top 6 but he is filling in for our injuries he will go back down to the bottom 6 soon enough

And honestly I don't have a huge problem with Cleary up there. He's good in our own end and can knock people off the puck and a good cycler. I'd rather be sound defensively with structure throughout the lineup and I'm seeing it these last three games

Your kidding me right?  Last time I seen Cleary cycle the puck was two years ago.  The guys done!



#902 hooon

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:29 AM

I doubt it.  Besides it's not Babcock that makes that decision...and Holland loves him some Sammy...it is SOP in this organization that as long as the player has options to be sent down, he will. No matter the skill he possesses...when all forwards are healthy, Tatar and Andersson will go back to GR...unless they make it to the time of year when you are allowed to expand your roster. Stupid, yes, but that's Hollands MO.



Hey here's a thought...maybe we are all reading it wrong....maybe Tatar IS in the top 6 and Datsyuk got demoted to the bottom 6....hmmmm.....

 

Best 4th line in the league, Chicago's got nothing on that kind of depth.


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#903 Number19

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:47 AM

Abby is leading the team in hits (again), plays the net front role well, has more takeaways than giveaways, is defensively responsible, and provides good pressure in the corners. IMO he's doing exactly what is expected of him. He isn't the type of player that can carry line- he is a checker and can be a complimentary player like Homer and Cleary (was). The line is the problem, not his play.

whoa now let's not go comparing him to Homer. leading this team in hits isn't something to be proud of.



#904 LeftWinger

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 10:24 AM

Abby has his place on this team...he has his role...he plays his part very well...he doesn't belong with Datsyuk.  Abby on the 4th line is a valuable member of this team, Abby on the 1st line is deer in headlights.  Cleary on this team period is just asinine....


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#905 GoWings1905

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 10:28 AM

I think Babcock could at least give Datsyuk something by tinkering the top-six, even if he is insistent on keeping one of Cleary or Abdelkader there.

Franzen - Datsyuk - Tatar
Cleary (Filppula) - Z - Brunner

That seems more balanced to me than putting two players with no offensive upside with Datsyuk right now. Abdelkader just doesn't belong at all.
 
 
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#906 Nightfall

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

Fascinating.  Tell us more.

 

esteef

 

No sense of saying more.  The problem is that some people here think that its realistic to believe that a good goaltender doesn't give up rebounds ever.  Even the elite of elite goalies gave up rebounds.


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#907 Nightfall

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:46 AM

Congratulations, just how many games did you watch back from the 1970's through the 1980's?? I am talking about teams GOING FOR IT before there was OT and also BEFORE they started giving points for just making it to OT.

Alot of teams take very few, if any, chances in the last 5 mins of regulation. Now, since they play for the SURE point, is why they MUST change the point system to 3 points for a regulation win, not only for better hockey in the last 5 mins of a game but also its proportionate! how the MORONIC Board of Governors came up with this current point system without thinking it through is beyond bush league!

 

I wasn't a big fan of hockey until back in 1994-1995.  I did watch a fair share of games on ESPN classic though.

 

I can tell you that if two teams made it to OT, most of the time they just played defensive to protect their point.  Neither team "went for it" unless they had a reason to do so, such as needing a point in the standings at the end of the season.  If you lost in OT, you lost the point you got for making it that far.  There was no incentive to go for that extra point unless you needed it.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here.

 

I have been trying to find some data on the number of ties in each NHL season, but so far no dice.  So I guess we are just going off our gut feelings.


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#908 heyfolks

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:31 PM

   Good

Howard - Stood on his head.  The guy, with rest, is a top end netminder just coming into his prime.
Tatar - This kid is fast, offensively skilled and plays the entire surface.  He, AGAIN, wins a race to the back boards and sets-up a key goal (just like the Shark game where he beat Stuart).  
Andersson - Nice pass and he competed well.
Hank -  He was in shutdown mode.
Brunner - The guy is beginning to skate the entire length, with speed and skill.  Holland bashers must be scouring over Parise stats to prove Holland screwed up.  More and more I focus on this guy whenever he is on the ice.  
Lashoff - I am not as worked up over the guy as others, but he plays a safe, solid, game.
Smith - He has all the tools, just needs to settle more into the team system.  Top 4 now, top 2 later, #1 at 30.
Kindl - Moving him would be a mistake.  He can skate, pass and has offensive PP point play this team sorely needs.  He went out there with Smith and he made all the right plays.  If he didn't have the biggest hit in the game (OT) it was #2).  This talk of White, Huskins or Cola taking his place is nonsense. White and Huskins don't compare and Cola is as fragile as a cheap Hummel figurine.

Bad

Miller - He put the D on their heels fat too many times.  He lost it before center ice, gained center ice and did not get it deep, missed stretch passes that cause icing.  Someone commented on the 4th line being out against the Hawks first, look no further. After every idiotic icing by the 4th line, the Hawks put their top line on the ice.
Tootoo - He missed a pass causing an icing.  He didn't clear, and he was ineffective throughout.  
Mule - Working your way back into shape is one thing, not hustling and making bonehead plays is another. Hell even NBC was pointing out his mistakes.
Cleary - If Gator is proving the hustle and muscle Cleary needs to provide some level of complimentary skill to Pavel.  He doesn't.

Ugly

Stripes - Has Smith pissed office the League office, first Penner now Carcillio and no call.  Tootoo was CLEARLY high sticked, no call.
DOG (Delay Of Game) - I really like how Kronner and E are developing into a top pairing, but those two plays were boneheaded and cost the team the game (Kindl would be traded or sat until next season).  Not the kind of play you expect form these two, especially Kronner on the 2nd one.  It was a WTF moment, that drained the teams momentum.
Babcock - I heard this joke about Jordon.  Who was the only person who could keep Jordan under 20 points?  Reply Dean Smith.  In the NHL, the question is, who is the only person who can make Datsyuk ineffective.  That line is HORRIBLE.  I get wanting to have some hustle and muscle with Abby but that only works if Pavel has a complimentary linemate, and Cleary is NOT that player. Tatar, Andersonn, or Mule would be a better fit.  (I never thought I would say this, but he really needs Bertuzzi back.  < I do think Bert-Pasha-Abby might work).  This is the MUST fix part of this team.



#909 kipwinger

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:24 PM

Anybody else think that maybe the reason we're seeing these half assed line combos out of Babs is because of some sort of dissatisfaction with Holland and the personnel he's brought on board the last couple of seasons?  A la Billy Bean or something.  Babcock's been calling for top six forward and top pair d-man help, and I guarantee he wasn't thinking Mikael Samuelsson and Carlo Colaiacovo when he said that.  Perhaps this is his way of showing that he's not really been dealt the hand he wanted.

 

Also, on an unrelated note:  Kudos to the defense for once again playing a pretty good game.  I like the way these guys are shaping up.


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#910 joesuffP

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:47 PM

I know it's only been 4 games but I wouldn't change anything about the D right now. Keeping the unit playing well together is good for their development and add Dekerseyer in the offseason and the defense has enormous potential for the next decade. Impressive Holland managed to rebuild a young defense in the matter of 2 years really. Our offense is good enough right now but they tend to go on droughts. Returning injured players just creates more problems because I think Andersson and Tatar need to stay. Hopefully holland can trim the fat with all our forwards and pick up a player or two with size then were in good shape. This team if healthy can beat the hawks in a playoff series

#911 heyfolks

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:48 PM

Anybody else think that maybe the reason we're seeing these half assed line combos out of Babs is because of some sort of dissatisfaction with Holland and the personnel he's brought on board the last couple of seasons?  A la Billy Bean or something.  Babcock's been calling for top six forward and top pair d-man help, and I guarantee he wasn't thinking Mikael Samuelsson and Carlo Colaiacovo when he said that.  Perhaps this is his way of showing that he's not really been dealt the hand he wanted.

 

Also, on an unrelated note:  Kudos to the defense for once again playing a pretty good game.  I like the way these guys are shaping up.

 

If Babcock did that, he would be fired the very next day.  He and Holland get along, so this is not intentional.  Babcock must not see any other options.  He wants a large body on every line, so Mule is with Hank and Brunner.  He wants Pavel to have some muscle and skill.  With Bert and Fil out, Babcock feels the muscle is Abby and tyhe skill is Cleary.  Evident this is not working but he has limited options.  I expect to see Abby moved down and Mule mover into the spot. If not Mule than Andersonn.  I do like Tatar more but it appears Babcock feels he cannot handle playing against top 6 talent.  The end game here is Bert with Pavel and Fil.  The 3rd line is then Sammie, Helm and Cleary, with Andersonn Abby and Eaves, Miller, Tatar or Andersonn rounding out the 4th line.

 

I agree on the D.  The Kindl bashers are like the Howard bashers, they just need something to complain about.  Kindl played over 20 minutes of hockey, was solid in all ends, with noted control on the PP and if not the best hit of the net, #2 with the pasting in OT.  He needs a solid stay-at-home big man to complitment his style of play.  He and Lash are very well suited for each other.  Keep them as the bottom pairing and let these 6 roll, with Cola at #7.  < The team now has a top 6 of homegrown D that can stay together for the next 5 years or so.  I say 5 giving Kronner until age 37.  The other 5 are all under 30, 6'2" or more and 200 lbs plus (OK Smith needs a big meal, but this is the best size the Wings have had in some time.  The skill set is there. 

 

 

 

Jonathan Ericsson   6' 4" 221 Mar 2, 1984 29

Jakub Kindl   6' 3" 216 Feb 10, 1987 26

Niklas Kronwall "A"  6' 0" 190 Jan 12, 1981 32 

Brian Lashoff   6' 3" 212 Jul 16, 1990 22  

Kyle Quincey   6' 2" 207 Aug 12, 1985 27 

Brendan Smith   6' 2" 198 Feb 8, 1989 24

 

The succession plan is also promising.

 

RWC #05 Ryan Sproul (+1) D 6.03 186 20 Sault Ste. Marie (OHL)          

RWC #07 Xavier Ouellet (–) D 6.00 187 19 B.-Boisbriand (QMJHL)

RWC #08 Mattias Backman (+6) D 6.02 169 20 Linkoping (SEL)

 

 

I like this D and I like it a lot.  I understand they wanted Suter or Weber, as did every other team out there.  This result may be, over-all, better.  A deeper group, without a ton of money dumped into a single player.

 

This D is locked up, contractually through 13-14 (noting Kindl and Smith are RFAs).

http://www.capgeek.com/redwings

 

 

The challenge for this team today is at forward.


Edited by heyfolks, 04 March 2013 - 03:53 PM.


#912 esteef

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:21 PM

^ Tatar on the 4th line would be moronic.  He easily beats Abby and Cleary for a spot on the 2nd IMO.

 

esteef


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#913 LeftWinger

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:39 PM

This GDT thread has been turned into anything but.... :lol:

 

While we are on the subject of D, I also can live with that D above, just add Dekeyser and we are fine.  I have been on Q's case a lot, mainly because he cost us a 1st round pick to get him, and even though he is still not worth the pick, I am seeing improvement that I can live with.  Kindl will forever be #7 defenseman on this team, I am fine with that too.  I think that Holland should sign Huskins too to rotate with Kindl at that #6/#7 spot.

 

Kronwall - Ericsson

Smith - Quincey

Lashoff - Dekeyser

Kindl (Huskins)

 

That should be a nice solid D-Corp for a few years while Sproul, Ouellet, McKee and Backman do their time in GR...

 

 

Maybe someone should create a thread to discuss the State of the D in the D....

 

I will say that I am betting on Dekeyser being here for the playoffs and beyond.  If Holland cannot get him signed it's because he refuses to give him top 6 minutes. Which, when White leaves and Cola gets waived he should be able to give him the minutes.


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#914 heyfolks

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:19 PM

^ Tatar on the 4th line would be moronic.  He easily beats Abby and Cleary for a spot on the 2nd IMO.

 

esteef

 

Ahhhhh, have you missed the games laterly?!  :)

 

Tatar is on the 3rd line because of injuries.  When Bert gets back, Abby drops.  When Fil bets back, Clearly drops.  When Helm gets back Tatar likely drops.  In short, what you call moronic is how Babcock has been playing the team.  If you want to drop drop Cleary to the 4th line and move Tart up, it is fine by me, hell I won't even argue, but you may have to call Coach Moron eeerrrr Babcock, Coach Babcoack.

 

 

Kindl is not a #7 now.... darn forever was shorter than I thought.  ;)


Edited by heyfolks, 04 March 2013 - 07:21 PM.


#915 LeftWinger

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:26 PM

Kindl is not a #7 now.... darn forever was shorter than I thought.  ;)

 

Kindl is a #7 when he is the one rotating with the other #7 Huskins.  Kindl was passed up on the depth chart by Lashoff. Kindl will never be top 6 on a consistant basis outside of injuries...


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#916 heyfolks

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:28 PM

  Dan DeKeyser - Will not go from WMU to the NHL on the Red Wings or any team that makes the post season this year.  His goal may be to sign a 1-way deal, hit the AHL and gain mentoring at a higher rate of pay.  Some team may be willing to do that. 

 

The Red Wings singing a college kid and put in at #6...  Sure that will happen.  Just ask Howard, Smith, Sheahan or NyQuist.  Al of these players accomplished more in college hockey.



#917 esteef

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:34 PM

Ahhhhh, have you missed the games laterly?!  :)

 

Tatar is on the 3rd line because of injuries.  When Bert gets back, Abby drops.  When Fil bets back, Clearly drops.  When Helm gets back Tatar likely drops.  In short, what you call moronic is how Babcock has been playing the team.  If you want to drop drop Cleary to the 4th line and move Tart up, it is fine by me, hell I won't even argue, but you may have to call Coach Moron eeerrrr Babcock, Coach Babcoack.

 

I am well aware of how it works with Babcock which is precisely my point.  Allowing Cleary and Abby to be above Tatar in skill positions is dumb, especially because of injuries.  Putting Tatar on the 4th is even dumber.

 

esteef


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#918 LeftWinger

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:15 PM

  Dan DeKeyser - Will not go from WMU to the NHL on the Red Wings or any team that makes the post season this year.  His goal may be to sign a 1-way deal, hit the AHL and gain mentoring at a higher rate of pay.  Some team may be willing to do that. 

 

The Red Wings singing a college kid and put in at #6...  Sure that will happen.  Just ask Howard, Smith, Sheahan or NyQuist.  Al of these players accomplished more in college hockey.

 

This honestly needs its own thread, but when you are trying to outbid or be the most attractive destination for a top tier UFA player like Dekeyser, you have to make yourself just that. Attractive.  I am sure it would be a 1-way contract for sure, but Holland can promise him a top 6 spot and see if he can handle it.

 

Just an FYI, when Smith at Wisconsin, we had a few spots already taken up by guys named Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall & Stuart.  There is a spot here for Dekeyser now. Besides Danny is 23 in a couple of days, Smith was 20 his last year at Wisconsin...


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#919 heyfolks

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:28 AM

I am well aware of how it works with Babcock which is precisely my point.  Allowing Cleary and Abby to be above Tatar in skill positions is dumb, especially because of injuries.  Putting Tatar on the 4th is even dumber.

 

esteef

 

Well you may need to double up on your BP meds or pray for Bert, Fil or Sammie to come back earlier than projected. Why?

 

 


 

The Red Wings (10-8-4) host the Colorado Avalanche (8-8-4) Tuesday. They have no healthy spare forwards, so the lineup up front will remain the same. Babcock has resisted juggling his lines, opting to keep struggling Justin Abdelkader (one assist in 22 games) with Pavel Datsyuk rather than place rookie Tomas Tatar (four goals, seven points) on the unit.

 

Tatar's defensive shortcomings make Babcock hesitant to play him against top lines.

 

 

http://www.mlive.com...ensive_pla.html

 

I don't get it either, but I accept the reality of the situation. 



#920 Vladifan

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

Like I mentioned before, I've been out of the loop for awhile.  Speaking of tweaking lines, why isn't Nyquist playing more?  Injured?  Whaaat?!  Thanks.


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