126 replies to this topic

[Carman]

Then why are you here? If sitting in 6th or 7th place is fine with you, then sit down, be quite and sing kum by ya. All is perfect in RW land. 5 years and counting..... BTW if you would bother to look I have been very consistant in my thoughts. I thought the D would be fine over the long haul-needed time to develop it is/has, and that the O was going to be an issue regardless of the injuries. I also said tatar and Nyqist are 40 pont per year guys, which guess what. Tatar has 7 points in 14 games. That would be 41 points over 82 games. Now can he maintain that level now that the league has seen him and he is part of their gameplan every game. Will be interesting to find out.

You know another player that had 35 points in 70 games while playing bottom 6 minutes?

Or another wing that had 44 in in 79 games while playing 16 minutes a night?

 

Hint... Hint... They are our best players.

 

Not saying Nyquist and Tatar are going to be hall of famers, but nothing they've done yet this early in their career has given the indication that they are just 40 point a year guys.

[Johnz96]

Its solid yes. The minutes argument is as old as time itself. if a guy can produce with low minutes he should produce with more. but it doesn't always happen. On the 3rd line you are not playing against other teams #1 line very often. Which can have a negative impact. also with tatar lack of size can he take more of a pounding and still produce? No one knows. Thats why i asked the question, can his production continue? To soon to know one way or the other. The best part of tatar so far is his energy. Much better than other more highly paid vets.

More minutes = more points almost all the time. Show me a player who has averaged half a point a game and played less than 12 mins.

[rick zombo]

More minutes = more points almost all the time. Show me a player who has averaged half a point a game and played less than 12 mins.

 

Hudler?

[Johnz96]

Hudler?

Not even

[The Axe]

Then why are you here? If sitting in 6th or 7th place is fine with you, then sit down, be quite and sing kum by ya. All is perfect in RW land. 5 years and counting..... BTW if you would bother to look I have been very consistant in my thoughts. I thought the D would be fine over the long haul-needed time to develop it is/has, and that the O was going to be an issue regardless of the injuries. I also said tatar and Nyqist are 40 pont per year guys, which guess what. Tatar has 7 points in 14 games. That would be 41 points over 82 games. Now can he maintain that level now that the league has seen him and he is part of their gameplan every game. Will be interesting to find out.

Come on, Rich. NO ONE thought our D was going to shape up like it has. We were all ready to jump off a bridge after game 1. Every player on D is looking NHL ready, and we are all excited. But if you say you expected that, you are lying, my friend.

[StormJH1]

I think Tatar has taken a step forward this year.  Granted, as I look at his numbers, they aren't exactly spectacular.  But he's been paired with on the "Griffins" line for most of the year, and he's getting like 11 or 12 minutes a game.    Dude's got some serious skill and an absurdly fast release in traffic.

 

Joakim Andersson is a little on the slow side, but if he learns to protect the puck as a big man like Hossa does, there's a willingness to go to net that I really like.  

 

Nyquist looked okay at times last year, but it's clear that the organization doesn't view him as quite ready yet.

 

I can't say with confidence that any of these guys will be 30-goal scorers, but part of the reason I was disappointed by the Tootoo and Sammy signings was knowing that they would bump one of these guys out of the lineup.  Fortunately (and unfortunately), injuries to some of the forwards have prevented that from happening.  

 

Wings are building a pretty good corps of solid young players, but it shouldn't be surprising that they haven't yet hit on a superstar - such is life when you pick 17th or lower for the last 20 years (or trade your pick for Kyle Quincey).  The optimistic way of looking at it is that we're in a pretty attractive position cap-wise, we have a solid mentoring program with aging, yet still very productive stars to bring these guys along, and we seem to be in great shape at goaltender for years to come.  The pessimistic side would say that when you have a bunch of decent players, but not stars, you'll invariably overpay one or several of them, and you'll become the Calgary Flames - enough firepower to stay in the Playoffs, but not enough to do much, and you also never bottom out and get an elite-level pick.

[fixxxer]

Did I miss the butt love day for Perry the fairy? Since when have Red Wings fans had a hard on for this ****** bag? It would be a sad day to see him in the red and white lets hope it never happens.

[The Axe]

I think Tatar has taken a step forward this year.  Granted, as I look at his numbers, they aren't exactly spectacular.  But he's been paired with on the "Griffins" line for most of the year, and he's getting like 11 or 12 minutes a game.    Dude's got some serious skill and an absurdly fast release in traffic.
 
Joakim Andersson is a little on the slow side, but if he learns to protect the puck as a big man like Hossa does, there's a willingness to go to net that I really like.  
 
Nyquist looked okay at times last year, but it's clear that the organization doesn't view him as quite ready yet.
 
I can't say with confidence that any of these guys will be 30-goal scorers, but part of the reason I was disappointed by the Tootoo and Sammy signings was knowing that they would bump one of these guys out of the lineup.  Fortunately (and unfortunately), injuries to some of the forwards have prevented that from happening.  
 
Wings are building a pretty good corps of solid young players, but it shouldn't be surprising that they haven't yet hit on a superstar - such is life when you pick 17th or lower for the last 20 years (or trade your pick for Kyle Quincey).  The optimistic way of looking at it is that we're in a pretty attractive position cap-wise, we have a solid mentoring program with aging, yet still very productive stars to bring these guys along, and we seem to be in great shape at goaltender for years to come.  The pessimistic side would say that when you have a bunch of decent players, but not stars, you'll invariably overpay one or several of them, and you'll become the Calgary Flames - enough firepower to stay in the Playoffs, but not enough to do much, and you also never bottom out and get an elite-level pick.

Solid post. +1.

Wings spending on D will look great in another year. Their spending on O needs to get better. Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, and Cleary bring nothing and cost 7 mil per. Can em.

[LeftWinger]

Solid post. +1.

Wings spending on D will look great in another year. Their spending on O needs to get better. Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, and Cleary bring nothing and cost 7 mil per. Can em.

 

For that $7M lost they can have a serious scorer for the first line and keep the kids up...

 

...that just leaves the little problem called Franzia....I still say dump him...

[The Axe]

 
For that $7M lost they can have a serious scorer for the first line and keep the kids up...
 
...that just leaves the little problem called Franzia....I still say dump him...

Johan Scamzen is undumpable. The wings owe him 25 mil.

[sjr2012]

Solid post. +1.

Wings spending on D will look great in another year. Their spending on O needs to get better. Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, and Cleary bring nothing and cost 7 mil per. Can em.

bert is the only one who can

[Z Winged Dangler]

You know another player that had 35 points in 70 games while playing bottom 6 minutes?

Or another wing that had 44 in in 79 games while playing 16 minutes a night?

 

Hint... Hint... They are our best players.

 

Not saying Nyquist and Tatar are going to be hall of famers, but nothing they've done yet this early in their career has given the indication that they are just 40 point a year guys.

 Cleary and Abdelkader?  Naw, they're not so good.  You must be talking about Datsyuk, who won a  cup his rookie year on the 3rd line if i'm not mistaken, and then Mr. Zetterberg whom should have won the Calder trophy but Barrett Jackman won it for god knows why...  Yeah those guys are pretty good.  I guess the Wings have never sucked enough since Yzerman was drafted to have a rookie run the top line.  Tatar and Nyquist I'm gonna guess will soon be on the 2nd line with Andersson probably to start next season and with added ice time we should expect 40-55 points each.  They're both capable and both have the work ethic and talent to be 70-80 point players one day.  What we need isn't necesarily power forwards, but skilled players with more skilled grinders.  If we have 2 shutdown lines in a couple years of Sheahan-Jarnkrok-Eaves and Callahan-Helm-Tootoo with a top 6 of Brunner-Z-Nyquist and Tatar-Dats-Franzen then I for one would be more than happy with that team, unless Franzen can be unloaded.

[kipwinger]

 Cleary and Abdelkader?  Naw, they're not so good.  You must be talking about Datsyuk, who won a  cup his rookie year on the 3rd line if i'm not mistaken, and then Mr. Zetterberg whom should have won the Calder trophy but Barrett Jackman won it for god knows why...  Yeah those guys are pretty good.  I guess the Wings have never sucked enough since Yzerman was drafted to have a rookie run the top line.  Tatar and Nyquist I'm gonna guess will soon be on the 2nd line with Andersson probably to start next season and with added ice time we should expect 40-55 points each.  They're both capable and both have the work ethic and talent to be 70-80 point players one day.  What we need isn't necesarily power forwards, but skilled players with more skilled grinders.  If we have 2 shutdown lines in a couple years of Sheahan-Jarnkrok-Eaves and Callahan-Helm-Tootoo with a top 6 of Brunner-Z-Nyquist and Tatar-Dats-Franzen then I for one would be more than happy with that team, unless Franzen can be unloaded.

 

Don't you think that the top six you've just laid out would have problems playing in high traffic?  Seems like they'd just be pushed to the outside the way Nashville did to us last year.  I think you need power forwards to counteract that problem. 

Edited by kipwinger, 04 March 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[kipwinger]

Anybody know anything about Nino Niederreiter from the Isles?  Scouting reports on him seem positive, but I haven't seen him play. 

 

Edit:  Plus, Garth Snow is an idiot so fleecing him shouldn't be that hard right?

Edited by kipwinger, 04 March 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[Z Winged Dangler]

Anybody know anything about Nino Niederreiter from the Isles?  Scouting reports on him seem positive, but I haven't seen him play. 

 

Edit:  Plus, Garth Snow is an idiot so fleecing him shouldn't be that hard right?

 There's a guy i'd trade Franzen for.  He'd help balance out the top 6 you were mentioning.  But I also just noticed that I left Andersson out of that lineup.  I'd have to bump Sheahan down as the 13th forward in that case.  He'd open up space for guys too like he's doing for Tatar and Eaves currently.  God I love that line.

[kipwinger]

 There's a guy i'd trade Franzen for.  He'd help balance out the top 6 you were mentioning.  But I also just noticed that I left Andersson out of that lineup.  I'd have to bump Sheahan down as the 13th forward in that case.  He'd open up space for guys too like he's doing for Tatar and Eaves currently.  God I love that line.

 

I really like that line as well, they seem to work really well together and bring the kind of tenacity that is often lacking on this team (especially with Helm out of the lineup).  As a matter of fact, I'd love to see our top six forwards attacking more aggressively the way that the line up mentioned does.  Seems like all of them, including Dats, Z, and Brunner are always looking for the open ice rather than attacking and forcing the defense to make plays.  Filppula is especially bad about circling back rather than attacking the net when on a rush.  Ugh.

[Richdg]

Come on, Rich. NO ONE thought our D was going to shape up like it has. We were all ready to jump off a bridge after game 1. Every player on D is looking NHL ready, and we are all excited. But if you say you expected that, you are lying, my friend.

Let's be clear and not put words in my mouth or anyone elses. I thought our D would be fine. They have/had size, speed, and talent. How they develop would be key. As a group they are doing a great job-faster than I expected which is a good thing! The only real negative is they are all LHed. I would love to swap 2 out for RHers, but good RH Dmen are hard to find.

Now i did not expect all of them to make it this far this fast. That is true. But let's not spend to much time complaining about things that are positives. we have enough negatives on the team to b!tch about! LOL

[Richdg]

More minutes = more points almost all the time. Show me a player who has averaged half a point a game and played less than 12 mins.

Ok.... Villie lenino, Kopecsky, Roest, Meach, Roittla (spelling), Lebda, legace, etc........ point is, not every backup can become a star. Some players are in fact best when used in limited roles. For the Tiger fans out there, there was once a raging debate over marcus Thames. if he could hit 25 HR's in 300 AB's, then he should be able to hit 40 HR in 600 AB's. right? Well no. Some type of thing happens in every sport. Just because a guy is a great face off man doesn't mean he should play every 3rd shift. hell we all loved Hommer. But he was also a liability in 5 on 5's. great in front of the net, but when he had to skate around, not so much.

Now why do I think both tatar and Nyquist are 40 point per year guys? simple. i have watched them for years. both have a few things they are good at, and several things they are not. Nyquist is a much better passer. I see him as a 15 goal 25 A man on average for his career. That is pretty good for a 3rd line guy. tatar is a much better shooter. He is more a 25 G 15 A player. Agian very usefull on a 3rd line. It is when compared to Datsyuk and Zetterberg that they fail. neither is as big as those 2, who are undersized as it is, nor are they as fast, nor do they have the skill. But then again, very few do. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are players that make everyone around them better. The same is not true for Tatar and Nyquist.

 

But back to the point of this thread: Power Forwards. if we had a couple of good ones to work with datsyuk and tatar, and with Nyquist and Zetterberg, and with brunner and Filppula, now we are building 3 good solid deep lines again. The last thing you want is for everyone to be the same-unless you find 9 mario lemueix's laying around.

[Johnz96]

Anybody know anything about Nino Niederreiter from the Isles?  Scouting reports on him seem positive, but I haven't seen him play. 

 

Edit:  Plus, Garth Snow is an idiot so fleecing him shouldn't be that hard right?

He has scored 3 points in 64 career games but he is just a kid still.

I would take a chance on him if Snow could be fleeced because he is physical and has some size which we desperately need and could develop into a goal scorer

[Richdg]

Did I miss the butt love day for Perry the fairy? Since when have Red Wings fans had a hard on for this ****** bag? It would be a sad day to see him in the red and white lets hope it never happens.

This is insane. Perry is one of the best power forwards in the game. Proven 40 G scorer, big and physical, and only 27. BTW if he hits UFA this summer, he can be had for NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why would we want a player like this...........