49 replies to this topic

[number9]

Becasue after all, agents NEVER Lie....... I mean, what would the bargining position be? Hi, I am here to negotiate datsyuk's next contract. We want 5 years and 35 million dollars. But pavel wants to return home in 1 year. Or 2 or 3....... How do you think that will play?

 

BTW Scott Boras is on line 2, he has the best closer in baseball over the last 3 years ready to sign a new deal for the Tigers.

.......uhhhh why would Datsyuk's agent want good bargaining position for a contract if Datsyuk doesn't want a contract?

[Richdg]

Just a random thought..... But what if Winnipeg was willing to trade Byfuglien... Would we be interested?

yes-as a forward. our D looks pretty good right now. Would fill Hommers role nicely. Speaking for myself of course, and what they want in trade.

[GMRwings1983]

Just a random thought..... But what if Winnipeg was willing to trade Byfuglien... Would we be interested?

 

 

No thanks.

 

 

[Richdg]

.......uhhhh why would Datsyuk's agent want good bargaining position for a contract if Datsyuk doesn't want a contract?

think this through for a second. Lets pretend Datsyuk wants to play 1 more year and make 7 million for it. The RW's have another player they like that wants to sign for 6-7 million for multiple years. But the wings only have 7 million to spend. In this case datsyuk has no bargining power at all. To the point he would have to play for someone else. As an agent, your client is always the best and is planning on playing for as long as possible. Any time there is the slightest hint of something else, your client loses his power and thus money/contracts.

 

Now I have no idea what is going to happen. I hope datsyuk stays and plays for another 5 + years. This is something that MI and KH need to find out asap. If he is going home, we need to know so we can plan accordingly. same if he stays.

[number9]

think this through for a second. Lets pretend Datsyuk wants to play 1 more year and make 7 million for it. The RW's have another player they like that wants to sign for 6-7 million for multiple years. But the wings only have 7 million to spend. In this case datsyuk has no bargining power at all. To the point he would have to play for someone else. As an agent, your client is always the best and is planning on playing for as long as possible. Any time there is the slightest hint of something else, your client loses his power and thus money/contracts.

 

Now I have no idea what is going to happen. I hope datsyuk stays and plays for another 5 + years. This is something that MI and KH need to find out asap. If he is going home, we need to know so we can plan accordingly. same if he stays.

Yeah that makes sense in the strange and unlikely hypothetical that he won't jump ship at 34 but for some reason would jump ship at 35. He is absolutely beloved in Russia and could make gobs of money over there if that's what he wanted... however he's never been one of those money guys, seems unlikely he'd start being like that now.

​The only statement he's made is that he said it would be nice to finish his career in Russia. AKA pull a Fedorov and play in the KHL from 40-43.

[DeGraa55]

Yeah that makes sense in the strange and unlikely hypothetical that he won't jump ship at 34 but for some reason would jump ship at 35. He is absolutely beloved in Russia and could make gobs of money over there if that's what he wanted... however he's never been one of those money guys, seems unlikely he'd start being like that now.
​The only statement he's made is that he said it would be nice to finish his career in Russia. AKA pull a Fedorov and play in the KHL from 40-43.

How do you know he doesn't want to retire at 40?

[number9]

How do you know he doesn't want to retire at 40?

 

My guess is a player of his caliber can easily play until 40, retire from the NHL, and then go onto play in the KHL for a few more years. Heck if really wanted to I bet he could play in the NHL until he's 43, but that probably won't happen.

 

Absolutely no reason for him to jump ship at 34 when he'll still have 6+ NHL caliber years left in him. He said he wants to finish his career in Russia, not play his last 9 years there.

[Richdg]

My guess is a player of his caliber can easily play until 40, retire from the NHL, and then go onto play in the KHL for a few more years. Heck if really wanted to I bet he could play in the NHL until he's 43, but that probably won't happen.

 

Absolutely no reason for him to jump ship at 34 when he'll still have 6+ NHL caliber years left in him. He said he wants to finish his career in Russia, not play his last 9 years there.

Again, we are debating something that we don't know one way or the other. I would never ever if my life depended on it trust and agent. They only care about their clients contracts. That is it. Holland and company need to find out one way or the other, and do so asap. if next year is going to be his last, we need to know so we can find players to take on his roles/money. if he plans on playing for 5 more, then there is time to build around him for another cup. Either way, we need to know.

The next question would be, if he is planning on leaving after next season, do you trade him? Again, a hot button, but a worthy question. If 2013/14 is it, then move him for more younger talent.

[The Axe]

Barry Sanders

[TheCaptain19]

ken holland brought samuelsson back last summer. nothing will surprise me.

[Richdg]

Barry Sanders

ya, and playing with cleary and abby, this becomes a real possibility.......

[FlashyG]

Again, we are debating something that we don't know one way or the other. I would never ever if my life depended on it trust and agent. They only care about their clients contracts. That is it. Holland and company need to find out one way or the other, and do so asap. if next year is going to be his last, we need to know so we can find players to take on his roles/money. if he plans on playing for 5 more, then there is time to build around him for another cup. Either way, we need to know.

The next question would be, if he is planning on leaving after next season, do you trade him? Again, a hot button, but a worthy question. If 2013/14 is it, then move him for more younger talent.

 

I wouldn't trade Datsyuk under any circumstance whatsoever. If the WIngs are shopping him every team in the league will know why and it would drive the price down exponentially. 

 

If he's retiring I'd look to move some prospects/picks for a player who can step in right away, if he's coming back I let my talent develop as they have been and slot them in when they are ready.

[Richdg]

I wouldn't trade Datsyuk under any circumstance whatsoever. If the WIngs are shopping him every team in the league will know why and it would drive the price down exponentially. 

 

If he's retiring I'd look to move some prospects/picks for a player who can step in right away, if he's coming back I let my talent develop as they have been and slot them in when they are ready.

so in your world 0 is great than 1? Interesting...... Sorry but that is how dynastys die. If datsyuk is worth say 3 #1 picks now, and becomes worth only 1 because he is gone after 1 year, take the pick. You have a 63% chance of getting a guy that will be a career NHL player. That is better than nothing.

[WINGS & FLOW]

Just a random thought..... But what if Winnipeg was willing to trade Byfuglien... Would we be interested?

HELLZ YEAH!!!!  but that will never happen

[FlashyG]

so in your world 0 is great than 1? Interesting...... Sorry but that is how dynastys die. If datsyuk is worth say 3 #1 picks now, and becomes worth only 1 because he is gone after 1 year, take the pick. You have a 63% chance of getting a guy that will be a career NHL player. That is better than nothing.

 

If Datsyuk is leaving I could care less about getting a draft pick for him. No draft pick is going to be able to replace him right away and I'm not interested in replacing him with a guy who might be able to fill some of the void 5 years down the road.

 

I'd rather keep him for the year, trade prospects and/or picks for a guy who can step in right away and continue with Zetterberg and whoever that may be. It gives us a great chance to send him out a winner and keeps us competitve while we allow the rest of our prospects to develop. 

 

There are no dynasties in the NHL anymore, there haven't been since the Oilers in the 80's. There is no scenario where trading Datsyuk would make this team better. Yet you have proposed it countless times in countless threads.

 

The odds of it happening are only slightly better than the odds of all 30 teams being killed in a 30 airplane pile-up mid-flight.

[LeftWinger]

My guess is a player of his caliber can easily play until 40, retire from the NHL, and then go onto play in the KHL for a few more years. Heck if really wanted to I bet he could play in the NHL until he's 43, but that probably won't happen.

 

Absolutely no reason for him to jump ship at 34 when he'll still have 6+ NHL caliber years left in him. He said he wants to finish his career in Russia, not play his last 9 years there.

 

 

 

Yes, and Lidstrom could have easily played until he was 48, if anyone could do that, he could. He trains as hard as Chelios did.  But, and this is fact, he didn't see the team getting better and he wanted to retire before it got ugly.  He also didn't want to go through another lockout. Dats could play into his 40's, but why would he do that if the GM fails to make the team better?  Holland not only has to make this team better, but he has to make Datsyuk want to play here.  Which means cut ties with average washed up players and get some high powered scoring in here.  I understand the injuries, but putting Bert back on Dats wing is not going to make us Cup contenders.  Holland has this off season to lure Dats to stay for a few more years.  Holland is on the spot starting right now....here is what we know of Holland right now:

 

failed to replace Hossa's scoring, failed to replace Rafalski, failed to replace Stuart, failed to replace Lidstrom....did he try? we think he did, but when he loses Datsyuk and doesn't have a game plan to stop that bleeding, he is in deep doo-doo. He needs to have that plan in effect right now. He didn't have it for Lids because he figured that Lids would not retire now, not after another Norris season, he wouldn't leave the...the...The Mighty Red Wings would he? Well Kenny, he did, and you dropped the ball and should have had a plan.  Instead you just assumed that Ryan Suter would come here because, well because we are the...the...The Mighty Red Wings! He wouldn't say no to us would he? How dare he!

 

The best way to keep Datsyuk around is to ice a winning team with the best players you can get.  Even then, that is no guarantee, but if you stick with Bertuzzi and Sammy and Cleary....kiss Pavel goodbye.

so in your world 0 is great than 1? Interesting...... Sorry but that is how dynastys die. If datsyuk is worth say 3 #1 picks now, and becomes worth only 1 because he is gone after 1 year, take the pick. You have a 63% chance of getting a guy that will be a career NHL player. That is better than nothing.

 

Honestly, I don't trust Kenny with 3 #1 picks...I'd rather keep Datsyuk and take my chances with him leaving.  Besides, if he does leave after next year, we'll have our own top 5 #1 pick for a few years in a row!

[Wingsfan72]

Just a random thought..... But what if Winnipeg was willing to trade Byfuglien... Would we be interested?

 Yes Please!! 

[FlashyG]

Yes, and Lidstrom could have easily played until he was 48, if anyone could do that, he could. He trains as hard as Chelios did.  But, and this is fact, he didn't see the team getting better and he wanted to retire before it got ugly.  He also didn't want to go through another lockout. Dats could play into his 40's, but why would he do that if the GM fails to make the team better?  Holland not only has to make this team better, but he has to make Datsyuk want to play here.  Which means cut ties with average washed up players and get some high powered scoring in here.  I understand the injuries, but putting Bert back on Dats wing is not going to make us Cup contenders.  Holland has this off season to lure Dats to stay for a few more years.  Holland is on the spot starting right now....here is what we know of Holland right now:

 

failed to replace Hossa's scoring, failed to replace Rafalski, failed to replace Stuart, failed to replace Lidstrom....did he try? we think he did, but when he loses Datsyuk and doesn't have a game plan to stop that bleeding, he is in deep doo-doo. He needs to have that plan in effect right now. He didn't have it for Lids because he figured that Lids would not retire now, not after another Norris season, he wouldn't leave the...the...The Mighty Red Wings would he? Well Kenny, he did, and you dropped the ball and should have had a plan.  Instead you just assumed that Ryan Suter would come here because, well because we are the...the...The Mighty Red Wings! He wouldn't say no to us would he? How dare he!

 

The best way to keep Datsyuk around is to ice a winning team with the best players you can get.  Even then, that is no guarantee, but if you stick with Bertuzzi and Sammy and Cleary....kiss Pavel goodbye.

 

Honestly, I don't trust Kenny with 3 #1 picks...I'd rather keep Datsyuk and take my chances with him leaving.  Besides, if he does leave after next year, we'll have our own top 5 #1 pick for a few years in a row!

 

I think you are misunderstanding fact with opinion.

 

You have no more insight into Lidstrom's decision to retire than I or anyone else here does. I don't think the lock-out or the talent level of the Wings had anything to do with Lidstrom's decision to hang them up. He was 42, and didn't have the motivation to go through another training camp. 

 

Also from what I've read about Datsyuk recently he has requested players like Holmstrom and Bertuzzi on his line because their size creates space for him to maneuver. I don't think he's as upset with who he's playing with as we are. Although I'm sure we both agree that Cleary and Abdelkader are certainly not the line-mates he should be playing with.

[DeGraa55]

 
If Datsyuk is leaving I could care less about getting a draft pick for him. No draft pick is going to be able to replace him right away and I'm not interested in replacing him with a guy who might be able to fill some of the void 5 years down the road.
 
I'd rather keep him for the year, trade prospects and/or picks for a guy who can step in right away and continue with Zetterberg and whoever that may be. It gives us a great chance to send him out a winner and keeps us competitve while we allow the rest of our prospects to develop. 
 
There are no dynasties in the NHL anymore, there haven't been since the Oilers in the 80's. There is no scenario where trading Datsyuk would make this team better. Yet you have proposed it countless times in countless threads.
 
The odds of it happening are only slightly better than the odds of all 30 teams being killed in a 30 airplane pile-up mid-flight.

This team isn't in a win now position. Because FACT is no matter how many moves Holland makes we WILL NOT win a Stanley cup in these next two years.

Your line of thinking is so wrong I can't believe I wasted time to even reply. Closest example I can think of with your line of thinking. You have two options. 1000 dollars now or 10000 5 years from now. You would choose the 1000 because you're in a right now mentality. You don't think long term.



I do however agree that it won't happen. Not because it doesn't make sense. But because this is Hollands weakness. He has never been in this position before with the wings.

[LeftWinger]

I think you are misunderstanding fact with opinion.

 

You have no more insight into Lidstrom's decision to retire than I or anyone else here does. I don't think the lock-out or the talent level of the Wings had anything to do with Lidstrom's decision to hang them up. He was 42, and didn't have the motivation to go through another training camp. 

 

Also from what I've read about Datsyuk recently he has requested players like Holmstrom and Bertuzzi on his line because their size creates space for him to maneuver. I don't think he's as upset with who he's playing with as we are. Although I'm sure we both agree that Cleary and Abdelkader are certainly not the line-mates he should be playing with.

 

Oh I beg to differ...Lids still maintains a friendship with Manny and I just happen to be quite good friends with Manny's Father in law...so yes, I do have more insight than you and most others...and these two issues were a huge part of his decision. They may have been only part of the decision, but guarantee, from God's mouth to your ears, they were part of the reason he left.