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number9

Franzen Is The Wings Most Undeserved Whipping Boy

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Franzia is well deverved of his whipping boy status, by his own admittance that he gets bored in the NHL and doesn't give 100% all the time...

Also, the author is wrong about how he got his nickname. He was called the Mule because it was so hard to move him from in front of the net. (When he was younger and didn't get his serious contract yet.) It had absolutely nothing to do with his work ethic on the ice. A mule is unmovable and stubborn and cannot be pushed down once it stands it ground. That is what Franzia was prior to his contract signing. That is why he was name the Mule. The author needs to get the facts correct before he writes his gibberish. That was a quote directly from Steve Yzerman himself in describing why he called him the Mule along with a tongue in cheek shot at his huge front teeth which makes him resemble one as well...

I also like how the author refers to him being one of only two players to score 5 goals in a game...that may be true, but he omitted the fact that he scored those 5 goals and then didn't score again for 2 months, and I think only 4 more the rest of the season...

Then he ends up with a challenge, if you have the guts post your comments below. Well I certainly have the guts, but do not conform to social media controlling what I post since you are required to have a waste-of-facebook account, which I do not, I cannot comment. I would certainly invite him here to debate with us because I can guarantee 75% of our users have more hockey knowledge than he does...

Edited by LeftWinger

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i expect more from him, because he can. I understand the frustration lots of the fans have with him, and NHL athlete shouldn't be "streaky", Franzen has the hands, size and skating ability to be a dominate player, yet he is only dominate in spurts.

But don't take it from me, take it from his coach

"When he feels it, it goes in," Babcock said. "To me, he should be one of the best power forwards in the league because of his hands, because of his skating, and he knows how to play."

"The challenge for him every night is to skate and be physical. If he skates and is physical the rest looks after itself," Babcock said. "He’s got one of the best shots in the league and can wire it like nobody.

"Mule’s one of those guys that has to decide if he’s going to be a great player in the league or a good player in the league for a long, long time. If he wants to be a great player then you have to call on yourself every single night. The great players dig in every night."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/11/red_wings_mike_babcock_wants_j.html

To me having your coach call you out on not coming to the rink with the right mentality every single night. Something he did earlier in his career when he was fighting for a roster slot and a stanley Cup. Which is when Yzerman gave him that nick name.

Edited by Carman
LeftWinger and GoWings1905 like this

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i expect more from him, because he can. I understand the frustration lots of the fans have with him, and NHL athlete shouldn't be "streaky", Franzen has the hands, size and skating ability to be a dominate player, yet he is only dominate in spurts.

But don't take it from me, take it from his coach

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/11/red_wings_mike_babcock_wants_j.html

To me having your coach call you out on not coming to the rink with the right mentality every single night. Something he did earlier in his career when he was fighting for a roster slot and a stanley Cup. Which is when Yzerman gave him that nick name.

Nah, what does Babcock know about Franzia? We have the expert in the author who wrote the useless article...

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Ehh Franzen is what he is at this point. Extremely streaky and a tendency to disappear for long stretches. Problem with that is Franzen does nothing else besides score, so when he's not doing that then I think that's where the floating/lazy reputation kicks in especially. Very frustrating to watch as a fan.

I don't really dlslike Franzen. I hate the fact he plays for the Red Wings and Hossa doesn't though.

Vladifan, F.Michael and LeftWinger like this

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Hes just not hard on the puck... As Pierre pointed out a million times, but no really how many times did they use a Franzen replay to show how lazy he is sometimes.

esteef likes this

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He is a prime example how Wings mangement can sometimes be too loyal to their players. If only we signed Hossa insted!!

The guy just might be a potential buyout in the near future.

Edited by WINGS & FLOW

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He is a prime example how Wings mangement can sometimes be too loyal to their players. If only we signed Hossa insted!!

The guy just might be a potential buyout in the near future.

He is a great example so are many others. But like many have said being loyal has positives and negatives. We have guys who really we shouldn't. This current roster our loyalty is def. Hurting more than helping but in years past it really has helped a lot.

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i expect more from him, because he can. I understand the frustration lots of the fans have with him, and NHL athlete shouldn't be "streaky", Franzen has the hands, size and skating ability to be a dominate player, yet he is only dominate in spurts.

But don't take it from me, take it from his coach

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/11/red_wings_mike_babcock_wants_j.html

To me having your coach call you out on not coming to the rink with the right mentality every single night. Something he did earlier in his career when he was fighting for a roster slot and a stanley Cup. Which is when Yzerman gave him that nick name.

This is definitely true. But if he was on his game every night, do you think we'd be paying him the same amount? I totally get the frustration here, but I think some people think that it would be perfectly natural to have a 40-50 goal-scorer (as he almost certainly would be if he tried) for under 4 million/yr.

Realistically, this is why long term bargain contracts are bad. He IS earning the money that he's making, whether people like to admit it or not. There's just an infuriating amount of potential that he refuses to tap into.

Vladifan likes this

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Franzia is well deverved of his whipping boy status, by his own admittance that he gets bored in the NHL and doesn't give 100% all the time...

Also, the author is wrong about how he got his nickname. He was called the Mule because it was so hard to move him from in front of the net. (When he was younger and didn't get his serious contract yet.) It had absolutely nothing to do with his work ethic on the ice. A mule is unmovable and stubborn and cannot be pushed down once it stands it ground. That is what Franzia was prior to his contract signing. That is why he was name the Mule. The author needs to get the facts correct before he writes his gibberish. That was a quote directly from Steve Yzerman himself in describing why he called him the Mule along with a tongue in cheek shot at his huge front teeth which makes him resemble one as well...

I also like how the author refers to him being one of only two players to score 5 goals in a game...that may be true, but he omitted the fact that he scored those 5 goals and then didn't score again for 2 months, and I think only 4 more the rest of the season...

Then he ends up with a challenge, if you have the guts post your comments below. Well I certainly have the guts, but do not conform to social media controlling what I post since you are required to have a waste-of-facebook account, which I do not, I cannot comment. I would certainly invite him here to debate with us because I can guarantee 75% of our users have more hockey knowledge than he does...

He got his nickname from Yzerman in training camp his rookie year

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This is definitely true. But if he was on his game every night, do you think we'd be paying him the same amount? I totally get the frustration here, but I think some people think that it would be perfectly natural to have a 40-50 goal-scorer (as he almost certainly would be if he tried) for under 4 million/yr.

Realistically, this is why long term bargain contracts are bad. He IS earning the money that he's making, whether people like to admit it or not. There's just an infuriating amount of potential that he refuses to tap into.

He got this contract because back in 08 and 09 he was on his game every night and in the playoffs. We lost Marion Hossa because Franzia was on his game every night and in the playoffs...he got his contract and his play has declined more and more each year, especially in the playoffs... is it due to age, injury, laziness, I am not sure, but one thing is for sure, he was expected to play a lot better than he is and the fact that he'll score 20 goals in 2 months, then score 9 more in 4 months makes him a viable and deserved whipping boy. His contract was 11 years $43.5M paying him mostly up front, averaging $3.9M. He is getting well paid to do nothing, now if he makes it to the point to where he is only making $1M per season salary and plays like this, so be it, but for $5.5M he needs to step it up everytime he gets out there...

He got his nickname from Yzerman in training camp his rookie year

exactly, because 1. He looked like a Mule and 2. He was a big body and hard to move out of the front of the net. Looked like a Mule, acted like a Mule, he was called Mule. He plays now more like a toy poodle. But I get what you are saying, he had a contract prior to this one. He had his EL contract his rookie year and then signed a 3 year one when he still played lights out and really earned his nick-name. Then he got his retirement contract and now takes 50% of the season off.

Edited by LeftWinger

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He is a prime example how Wings mangement can sometimes be too loyal to their players. If only we signed Hossa insted!!

The guy just might be a potential buyout in the near future.

Hossa was more expensive and the Wings would have had to drop somebody else to afford him.

During the 09 playoffs, the biggest whipping boy for Red Wings fans was Hossa, and Franzen was everybody's sweetheart probably some of the same people who claim we should have signed him instead of Franzen now. People would have been outraged if we signed Hossa and dropped Franzen

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...We lost Marion Hossa because Franzia was on his game every night and in the playoffs...

This is definitely a legitimate complaint. I forgot about that.

His contract was 11 years $43.5M paying him mostly up front, averaging $3.9M. He is getting well paid to do nothing, now if he makes it to the point to where he is only making $1M per season salary and plays like this, so be it, but for $5.5M he needs to step it up everytime he gets out there...

Personally I don't care how much he's actually being paid. It's just about the cap hit to a fan isn't it? I mean, it's Ilitch paying the money. The only thing affecting the competitiveness of the team is the cap hit. It's nice to have an owner that's rich enough that we can say that. For a lot of teams, it WOULD be an issue, because the owner is financially constrained (although I'm starting to wonder if Ilitch might be heading that way too...)

Edited by Zetts

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Hossa was more expensive and the Wings would have had to drop somebody else to afford him.

During the 09 playoffs, the biggest whipping boy for Red Wings fans was Hossa, and Franzen was everybody's sweetheart probably some of the same people who claim we should have signed him instead of Franzen now. People would have been outraged if we signed Hossa and dropped Franzen

That is also true.

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I do think the idea behind the article is correct. Franzen takes way more heat than he deserves.

Franzen's production has been extremely consistent for a scorer but for some reason when he got his big contract expectations of him raised considerably among fans.

Personally I think outside of players on entry level deals he's one of the best bang for your buck scorers in the entire league.

I also think its funny that everyone was just waiting for a chance to jump on him after his first bad game of the season the other day against Chicago.

Before he got his hip flexor he was putting up a point in every other game. On top of that he's led the team in scoring the past 2 seasons and people talk like he should be bought out.

Its kind of ridiculous, but then again we are one of, if not the most spoiled fan base in all of hockey.

Edited by FlashyG
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The whole offense isn't showing up but apparently the blame lands only on Franzen... He also is 2 games back from an injury and was playing well before being injured

Jesusberg likes this

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Hossa was more expensive and the Wings would have had to drop somebody else to afford him.

During the 09 playoffs, the biggest whipping boy for Red Wings fans was Hossa, and Franzen was everybody's sweetheart probably some of the same people who claim we should have signed him instead of Franzen now. People would have been outraged if we signed Hossa and dropped Franzen

Hossa and Franzen were both loved here that year. Hossa hurt himself and that is why he underperformed in those playoffs and he missed half the next season while recovering from that surgery. I for one, never wanted to re-sign Franzen and wanted to keep Hossa in his place. Sure Hossa costs $1.3M more per season but that wouldn't have to drop anyone. Holland chose to wait out Hudler and his stupid games. He signed Franzia for the $3.9 Cap, then offered Hudler $3.5M per season. They had plenty of money because other guys wouldn't have been picked up (Drew Miller) the next season. Especially when Hudler was awarded only $2.9M from arbitration. So take away Drew Miller and Hudler's original $3.5M You got $4M right there.

Take away Jason Williams $1.5M and bang you have both Hossa and Franzia... which would have been fine and very doable. But Holland decided to dick around with Hudler all summer and Hossa left. So like I have always said, Holland chose Franzia and Hudler over keeping Hossa, which is probably one of his biggest mistakes...

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And his bad game in Chicago he hit two posts and was completely robbed by Crawford other than a few ugly plays early on Franzen turned it on halfway through the game

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This is definitely a legitimate complaint. I forgot about that.

Personally I don't care how much he's actually being paid. It's just about the cap hit to a fan isn't it? I mean, it's Illitch paying the money. The only thing affecting the competitiveness of the team is the cap hit. It's nice to have an owner that's rich enough that we can say that. For a lot of teams, it WOULD be an issue, because the owner is financially constrained (although I'm starting to wonder if Illitch might be heading that way too...)

Well if we are just talking cap hit, then Hossa only makes $1.3M more than Franzia.

That is also true.

...and like I explained, if Holland chose to keep Hossa and not dick around with Hudler, he would have not had to lose anyone else. He offered Hudler $3.5M and gave Franzia $3.9M...Hossa signed or $5.2M...in the end Franzia got $3.9M and Hudler walked to Russia. If Holland kept Hossa you wouldn't have seen Williams and his $1.5M, thus freeing up more money...

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Both were offered similar deals between 3.9 and 4.5 although I forget the exact dollar figure Hossa rejected from the Wings. In hindsight would it have been better to keep Hossa instead....clearly yes but at the time I don't think it was that obvious.

Keeping both was never really an option considering they already had 2 guys on lifetime deals, they still had hopes Lidstrom would keep playing for a few years and they knew Datsyuk was going to need a new deal in the near future as well.

As it stands there is an outside chance Hossa gets bought out this off-season. Chicago isn't in a very pretty spot capwise, with Kruger, Stalberg, Bickell, Mayers, Rozsival, Leddy and Emery all needing to be re-signed with only 4 million in cap space available.

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Both were offered similar deals between 3.9 and 4.5 although I forget the exact dollar figure Hossa rejected from the Wings. In hindsight would it have been better to keep Hossa instead....clearly yes but at the time I don't think it was that obvious.

Keeping both was never really an option considering they already had 2 guys on lifetime deals, they still had hopes Lidstrom would keep playing for a few years and they knew Datsyuk was going to need a new deal in the near future as well.

As it stands there is an outside chance Hossa gets bought out this off-season. Chicago isn't in a very pretty spot capwise, with Kruger, Stalberg, Bickell, Mayers, Rozsival, Leddy and Emery all needing to be re-signed with only 4 million in cap space available.

Hindsight is always easy to wipe away and see clearer. I know the options that Holland had and already mentioned that at the time Franzia was lights out every night and in the playoffs, so you cannot blame Holland for thinking that that would continue. As it turned out, it didn't and keeping him over Hossa looks idiotic right now.

I could only hope that Chicago buys out Hossa and Holland reclaims the jewel he lost. But will Hossa want to come back here with our winning ways behind us for the moment? Datsyuk sure would be happy...

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I am sure the OP didn't mean for this to become another Franzia v. Hossa debate, but in the end, that is why he has become a whipping boy...we lost our only 40 goal scorer since Shanahan for this guy and he has done nothing to prove that he was the right choice. I appreciate his 29 goals last season, but when he scores 20 by December and then only nets 9 more the rest of the year, he deserves his whipping boy status. If he wasn't chosen over Hossa, if we never had Hossa to begin with, he may not be the whipping boy that he is.

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I sure wish I could have made a decision knowing what the future would have been.

Holland made the best decision he could at the time. Franzen took less money and he was as hot as a pistol. Hossa went to the Hawks. If Holland had a crystal ball that worked, like everyone else here had, then don't you think he would have signed Hossa instead?

Everyone here berating Holland for the decision he should have made in hindsight is pretty lame.

That being said, Franzen has earned his contract money unlike other players.

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Wasn't Franzen's original cap hit like $5.6 or something? And now it's dropped to 3.9 for the remainder of it?

If he continues to put up 55 pts a season then I think he's worth the 3.9 per year

No I didn't intend for this to be a Hossa v. Franzen thread. While were at it does anyone wanna share their opinion on whether or not Osgood will be in the hall of fame? :hehe:

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Goal scorers go into hot and cold streaks all the time. That is expected and not an issue. It is the fact that Franzen DOES NOTHING when he isn't scoring. sammy who I am not a fan of keeps working, while in a slump. he skates, checks a little and plays D. Franzen doesn't. he just kinda floats arond the ice. 1 or 2 strides here float float float, then 1 or 2 strides somewhere else.

The really bad part is, Franzen is already 33. He has 7 years left on his contract after this one. His cap hit is 3.95 million every year of his contract. Even if he retires we take the hit. So, and this would be funny if it wasn't so harmfull-we could be hurt by his contract after he RETIRES! Paying for 0 goals per year. 0 points per year. 0 minutes per year. The idea that franzen will still be playing in the NHL in 7+ years is down right laughable. At the rate he is going, he is going to be lucky to have a job in 3 years. The money is gone, nothing can be done about that. But we can do something about the cap hit.

Also, yes he is the problem with our O. The fact that babcocl feels he ahs to play cleary and abby with datsyuk, over franzen speaks volumns.

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