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Jedi

Holland says those dreaded words, "Our Deadline Addition"

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"We like our team."

Won one playoff game with Nick Lidstrom.

To be fair, last year's playoffs were all kinds of crazy. Who would have predicted that Boston, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, San Jose, and Chicago would all be out after the first round, St. Louis and Philly out after 2, and an 8th seed not only winning the Stanley Cup, but also being the first team in history to go up 3-0 in each and every series they played...

From all the reports I saw post-deadline last year, each team that Detroit contacted for a trade wanted no less than Brendan Smith in return. That's too high a price to pay for a one-playoff run where we were already likely to lose in the first round anyway...

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As stated above, Holland has been saying all year that this team is a work in progress and that it might not even make the playoffs. Not once has he said "we like our team". Your criticism is noted yet completely erroneous and misguided. If you want to criticize Holland focus on things like how he lacked a long term vision for how we'd transition into the post Lidstrom era, or how he consistently lowballs helpful free agents because he's cheap and afraid of the cap. It's pointless to keep parroting something he said years ago when we were frequently competing for cups.

You made my point largely for me. Holland said it last year at the deadline and the Red Wings won a single game with Nick Lidstrom. Now, he's already resorting to "our injured guys will be our deadline acquisitions" as if they will magically all be healthy together in April.

Even if they get full health, this team is flawed in some major areas. They need a top four d-man (ideally top pairing) and it appears now another top-six forward as well.

My criticism is based on the premise we have pretty much gotten the same philosophy from Holland since 2010. Not much risk taking, probably too much loyalty and a reliance on health, when in reality the Red Wings need an infusion of skill and new bodies.

I probably should have elaborated more in my original post. I just think the concept of going forward with this team as is and not exploring changes is going to end with quick playoff failure.

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You made my point largely for me. Holland said it last year at the deadline and the Red Wings won a single game with Nick Lidstrom. Now, he's already resorting to "our injured guys will be our deadline acquisitions" as if they will magically all be healthy together in April.

Even if they get full health, this team is flawed in some major areas. They need a top four d-man (ideally top pairing) and it appears now another top-six forward as well.

My criticism is based on the premise we have pretty much gotten the same philosophy from Holland since 2010. Not much risk taking, probably too much loyalty and a reliance on health, when in reality the Red Wings need an infusion of skill and new bodies.

I probably should have elaborated more in my original post. I just think the concept of going forward with this team as is and not exploring changes is going to end with quick playoff failure.

Right I agree, and I've stated all along in this thread that we need another d-man and a top six winger. My point is that I don't think Holland is saying "we like our team" when he says that getting injured guys back is like a deadline acquisition. I think he's just pointing out that we're already a competitive team, even without Helm, Flip, Bert, Sammy and that getting those guys back only makes us more effective. He's obviously aware that we need another forward and a d-man because he explicitly said so in a different interview about two weeks ago. Everyone is so frustrated by the lack of success that they're misinterpreting him this time around.

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This is a hard one. What would you expect Holland to say? Our team is crap and we can't make any moves becasue everyone wants our only 5 NHL ready guys?

Public convo's like this shoudl never be counted on to much. Most GM's in most sports really don't say a lot.

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I think Kenny absolutely believes in what he says.

Right, which is that getting guys back is LIKE a deadline acquisition? Take ANY competitive team, which we are, and add 4 top nine forwards and depth defenseman and it's impressive. Or to put it another way, if our team was made up of the exact roster that we're putting on the ice tonight, and then on April 3rd we traded for Filppula, Helm, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi and Colaiacovo, people would go nuts over how awesome Ken Holland is. If anything, people should be mad at how obviously true his statement is, not that the logic is somehow flawed.

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To everyone freaking out, who would you be willing to part with that would net us a difference maker? Spare me the NHL 13 gm mode nonsense. I'm liking what I'm seeing, a changing of the guard. We're finally starting to see our young guys come in and make a difference. There are going to be bumps along the way, but that's what happens during transition years. We are not going to get anything for scraps and I don't think we're one key piece from a cup. I'm willing to wait it out. This summer we're going to see some real changes. We're going to add a few more guys from GR and our rookies from this year will have some experience. Not to mention, a few guys will hopefully be gone.

Edited by The Greek

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To everyone freaking out, who would you be willing to part with that would net us a difference maker? Spare me the NHL 13 gm mode nonsense. I'm liking what I'm seeing, a changing of the guard. We're finally starting to see our young guys come in and make a difference. There are going to be bumps along the way, but that's what happens during transition years. We are not going to get anything for scraps and I don't think we're one key piece from a cup. I'm willing to wait it out. This summer we're going to see some real changes. We're going to add a few more guys from GR and our rookies from this year will have some experience. Not to mention, a few guys will hopefully be gone.

We played the best team in the league to an overtime loss and a shootout loss. We've split our two games against the defending cup champions, and we've beaten the third, fifth, sixth, seventh, and all the teams tied with us for the 8th seed. We're as competitive or more so than any team in the national hockey league right now. How are we not a piece (or maybe two) away from having a real chance at the cup?

A rebuild now is pointless, especially as the core of our team continues to age. We can rebuild in two years when Sproul, Quellet, Jurco, Jarnkrok, Sheahan, Mrazek, etc. are NHL ready and Datsyuk may or may not be leaving. For now, trade Tatar, Nyquist, or both and some picks and acquire the pieces to put us over the top.

Edited by kipwinger

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I found it ironic when Kenny said "this team may not make the playoffs".

I thought it was his job to fix that problem?

Also why would he say something like that? I certainly wouldn't say we might not make the playoffs. Should have said something to the fact that we're going to do the best we can to make the playoffs.

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We played the best team in the league to an overtime loss and a shootout loss. We've split our two games against the defending cup champions, and we've beaten the third, fifth, sixth, seventh, and all the teams tied with us for the 8th seed. We're as competitive or more so than any team in the national hockey league right now. How are we not a piece (or maybe two) away from having a real chance at the cup?

A rebuild now is pointless, especially as the core of our team continues to age. We can rebuild in two years when Sproul, Quellet, Jurco, Jarnkrok, Sheahan, Mrazek, etc. are NHL ready and Datsyuk may or may not be leaving. For now, trade Tatar, Nyquist, or both and some picks and acquire the pieces to put us over the top.

My opinion is based on how woefully inconsistent we have been. There is not a single aspect of our game that has been completely consistent. Granted, our defense is really coming together. But, our scorers have been known to disappear and jimmy does take the occasional night off. I don't want to touch our defense and I don't See what we can do with our offense without losing someone important. Furthermore, I wouldn't use the hawks game as an indicator of our progress. The hawks were at the end of a cluster of games and absolutely dominated us in the first. They were clearly gassed during the last two periods and still managed to hold on. Furthermore, we have lost games to some pretty awful teams like the bj's.

Fwiw, I should have left out the part about us being more than a key piece or two away. Such an addition would make a huge difference. But I don't see how we can gain something without losing something similar.

One more thing, It would take a lot for me to give up Tatar. With Gus I'm only a little less hesitant.

Edited by The Greek

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I did, and I threw up in my mouth a little. Anyone who thinks we'll be just fine when our injury list clears out is living in La-La Land. Filpulla isn't producing, Bert's not going to do much coming off of a major back injury, Franzen is useless, Sammy's constantly hurt, Cleary just sucks, Abby sucks in a 2nd-line role, and Tatar and Andersson are making the most of their time but not getting enough of it. This team has a REAL need at forward. We have no consistent scorer. Not one. We haven't since Hossa left. No one that has proved they can score goals night-in and night-out. Brunner has been a nice surprise, but he hasn't gotten on the scoresheet in a little while. No one has, to be honest. How Holland can sit there and sit on his hands when this team cannot score goals consistently is beyond me.

Helm?

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Right, which is that getting guys back is LIKE a deadline acquisition? Take ANY competitive team, which we are, and add 4 top nine forwards and depth defenseman and it's impressive. Or to put it another way, if our team was made up of the exact roster that we're putting on the ice tonight, and then on April 3rd we traded for Filppula, Helm, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi and Colaiacovo, people would go nuts over how awesome Ken Holland is. If anything, people should be mad at how obviously true his statement is, not that the logic is somehow flawed.

Hell no! If any GM this Apil came out and boosted he picked up those names, he should be fired on the spot.

Helm?

not a scorer. 12 G is his career high IIRC.

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We have plenty enough assets to get what we need, IMO. Which is, a big minute stay at home d-man to play with Kronwall on the top pair, and a big(ish) winger who can chip in supplemental scoring. For the sake of argument I'll say Blake Wheeler and Ladislav Smid. You could also swap these guys for Nino Niederreiter, Troy Brouwer, Sam Gagne on offense, and Mark Stuart, Henrik Tallinder, Robyn Regehr, or Anton Volchenkov on defense. And best of all, pretty much any of these guys could be had for a combination of prospects, picks, and lower level roster players. Then you simply move our throw away guys like White, Colaiacovo, Sammy, Eaves, Kindl, Miller, Abby, Cleary, etc. for the picks you lose landing the impact players.

Wheeler-Datsyuk-Flip

Brunner-Z-Franzen

Kronwall-Smid

Smith-Ericsson

To me this looks a hell of a lot better than what we're fielding right now. Fill in the bottom six/bottom defensive pairings however you want.

If you honestly think we're a better team with Cleary and Abby in the top six rather than Sammy and Bert then I'm not going to argue with you. I still maintain that while Holland should make a move or two, the addition of those guys makes our team considerably more competitive than it is now. And given that the point of trading is to make your team better than it is now, there's nothing misleading about Holland's comments.

While I'd love to see Wheeler on the Wings...haha Winged Wheeler....he's a fan favorite in Winnipeg and the coaches love him. Unless Nyquist and Jurco or something of the sort came the other way i doubt the Jets even consider moving him though he'd have a badass nickname here

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My opinion is based on how woefully inconsistent we have been. There is not a single aspect of our game that has been completely consistent. Granted, our defense is really coming together. But, our scorers have been known to disappear and jimmy does take the occasional night off. I don't want to touch our defense and I don't See what we can do with our offense without losing someone important. Furthermore, I wouldn't use the hawks game as an indicator of our progress. The hawks were at the end of a cluster of games and absolutely dominated us in the first. They were clearly gassed during the last two periods and still managed to hold on. Furthermore, we have lost games to some pretty awful teams like the bj's.

Fwiw, I should have left out the part about us being more than a key piece or two away. Such an addition would make a huge difference. But I don't see how we can gain something without losing something similar.

One more thing, It would take a lot for me to give up Tatar. With Gus I'm only a little less hesitant.

I wouldn't trade Gus.

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I wouldn't trade Gus.

I don't want to trade either Gus or Tatar. But, If I were forced to choose, I would trade Gus. I would rather we take a real good look at both though so it doesn't bite us in the ass down the road.

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I wouldn't trade Gus.

I don't want to trade either Gus or Tatar. But, If I were forced to choose, I would trade Gus. I would rather we take a real good look at both though so it doesn't bite us in the ass down the road.

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I was listening to 97.1 the Ticket for the first half of the game tonight and he said the same thing to Paul Woods and Ken Kal during the first intermission chat. Followed it up with, 'yeah, we've got a lot of cap space, but the trade deadline isn't like the trade deadline 10 years ago.

Those of you looking for change, are outta luck from the sounds of it.

Holland, Stan Bowman and Paul Holmgren sat down for a conversation with ESPN's Pierre LeBrun regarding possible trade mindsets for their respective teams.

When the conversation came around to the Red Wings needs, Kenny Holland says the phrase we all know we LOVE to hear... (emphasis mine)

LeBrun wraps up the Wings section nicely by pointing out the Wings would like a top-4 D man, but that might be hard to get come deadline time. I'd recommend giving the full story a read.

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Holland's job is to make this team competitive, and not sit back and wait for some magical healthy team. That never happens in hockey. Also, Bertuzzi and Sammy aren't going to push this team to the next level. That's what a good trade does.

So no, getting healthy isn't like a trade acquisition.

Regardless, as you all said already, trades are unlikely because no one wants to anymore.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

If Kenny can't realize that a player like Lashof is one the best current DEF and he's not going after top 2 D, he's stupid.

We need to get rid of; Q, Carlo the glass, White... and bring some true D

And where will these theoretical defensemen be coming from?

It's all well and good to say "OMG WE NEED ___," but consider presenting a viable plan of action when you do so.

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I hope this is just Kenny not showing his cards, because that would just increase the prices come trade-deadline. This team as of now has no top pairing and not one top pairing defenseman. Every other team knows exactly, that the Wings do need one badly as do some other opponents in the East (especially the Flyers) but where are they coming from? No clue if people think Bouwmeester would be avaiable for anything less than overpayment they are in for some kind of reality shock. Not even Feaster would give away his biggest 3-4-13 chip for depth.

You can bet the Flames would be asking for a top prospect + a first or early second.

Although I am tired of hearing the crap about "the powerplay is our enforcer" (no it is not since 5 has retired) or "getting injured guys back will be like 2 trade-deadline additions" the team itself is average and average teams do not win the Stanley-Cup which should be the ultimate goal here.

Could the Wings need a scorer? For sure but their biggest need going forward will be a shutdown top pairing defenseman and a real enforcer.

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