114 replies to this topic

[kipwinger]

Hilarious is the attitude that these moves will guarantee a Cup. I've got news for you: many teams make deadline trades every season, and only one of them wins the Cup. The rest of them go golfing and lament that they gave up valuable assets for a rental who didn't win them anything.

 

Yes, hilarious.  Because obviously I believe that putting a team on the ice GUARANTEES a cup win.  You totally nailed what I was getting at, and accurately too.  I was talking about filling a couple of glaring holes on an otherwise competitive team, and in doing so giving the Wings as good a chance at the cup as anyone else.  Thanks for responding to my post in an obviously fair way. 

[Drake_Marcus]

Is this team a deadline trade away from the Cup?  No.  So let's get a good draft pick for once.

[beachwing]

Can't really disagree with his assesment of Helm and Nyquist though

[kipwinger]

Is this team a deadline trade away from the Cup?  No.  So let's get a good draft pick for once.

 

I'm going to repost something I said earlier because I think that there's a way that we can acquire some useful pieces for a playoff run and still maintain our picks.  I'm curious to know what you think about it though.

 

"I disagree that we don't have anything to trade, we've got a lot to trade in terms of picks and prospects, and considering the cap is going down next year picks and prospects (that have shown something) are more valuable than ever.  Take a team like New Jersey for example, they have to resign Elias, Zidlicky, Clarkson, Henrique, Ponikarovsky, Liktionov, and they're going to have less cap space to do it.  Surely, they'd consider moving Volchenkov and his 4.5 million dollar cap hit in order to facilitate that.  Especially considering they've already got a glut of NHL ready defensemen.  Tatar and a 3rd would come close to getting it done.  They'd get a pick and a cheap winger who can contribute immediately, we'd get a top four defenseman to play with Kronwall, and we'd lose a good prospect but not one who's integral to the future of this team.  Then we move White or whoever to replace the pick we lost. "

 

 

In this case I only looked at New Jersey, but I'm sure there are plenty of teams that have to resign core guys and who would be willing to part with non-core guys in order to clear up some money to do so.  I think the cap going down next year is our biggest ally because it makes picks and prospects that much more valuable to teams at this year's deadline. 

Edited by kipwinger, 07 March 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[whitewolf406]

http://video.tsn.ca/...881073/clip/102

 

Perry<>White, Franzen, + __________.  Perry for White is basically rental for rental with the potential to work something out before July. Franzen may be/is in need of a change of scenery although we have shown a penchant for not getting rid of the Swede's. ANA could keep White or use him in another deal. Fill in the blank on your favorite other player to ship out. Think the price for a "top 4 D man" at the trade deadline is higher than they'll be worth. I like Perry for our transition to the East and bridging the gap between our over 30 forwards and the younger guys. ANA may be more apt to work with us knowing will soon be out of the conference.

[VM1138]

Is this team a deadline trade away from the Cup?  No.  So let's get a good draft pick for once.

 

We're not a draft pick away from winning the Cup either.  How about we just address some of our immediate needs this year, then some more next year, and try for the Cup every year?  This whole "let's just wait and see what we get 10 years from now" is getting tiring.  Win now, you know?

[evilmrt]

I'd like to know, statistically, how far teams with such poor Special Teams ratings have gotten in the playoffs. I'm sure someone here knows. 

[beachwing]

I'd like to know, statistically, how far teams with such poor Special Teams ratings have gotten in the playoffs. I'm sure someone here knows. 

Good point.... Being that we are in 4th for now I keep forgetting how dismal the road PP has been....pretty impressive we are where we are considering that big goose egg on the road!

[HIFI_canadian]

Basically what he said is that WE HAVE NOTHING VALUABLE TO TRADE TO ACQUIRE ANYONE.

http://video.tsn.ca/...881073/clip/102

 

Perry<>White, Franzen, + __________.  Perry for White is basically rental for rental with the potential to work something out before July. Franzen may be/is in need of a change of scenery although we have shown a penchant for not getting rid of the Swede's. ANA could keep White or use him in another deal. Fill in the blank on your favorite other player to ship out. Think the price for a "top 4 D man" at the trade deadline is higher than they'll be worth. I like Perry for our transition to the East and bridging the gap between our over 30 forwards and the younger guys. ANA may be more apt to work with us knowing will soon be out of the conference.

 

Who in their right mind would trade for a player who has been a healthy scratch a few times this season? No one is riding the Ian White train, not even babs. 

We're not a draft pick away from winning the Cup either.  How about we just address some of our immediate needs this year, then some more next year, and try for the Cup every year?  This whole "let's just wait and see what we get 10 years from now" is getting tiring.  Win now, you know?

 

They have NO one in the farm system who is ready to make immediate impact. Why? cause they have been trading their first rounders like wasted tissues. Ken Holland has not drafted a first rounder who made some sort of impact since Jiri Fischer. I'm tired of the excuses, I want to see him and his "excellent" scouting staff draft a player who is 2-3 years away from making an immediate impact.

Edited by HIFI_canadian, 10 March 2013 - 04:45 AM.

[Dabura]

Something I don't really get:

 

We're all, "Yay! The young guys are finally getting a shot, and showing their stuff! So there are gonna be some big changes this summer!" But the only reason the young guys are up on The Big Club to begin with is injuries (e.g. Helm, Bertuzzi, Filppula, Samuelsson, Colaiacovo....) So what happens when these guys get healthy and return to the lineup? What happens to our youth movement then? Am I way off in assuming Tatar & Co. will get flushed back down to Grand Rapids and Holland will say something to the effect of "This whole ordeal has shown us our young guys can step in when called upon. (But there's just no room for them as is)"? Which is ok, I guess. I just can't wrap my head around why everyone seems to think all these young guys are now full-timers.

Edited by Dabura, 10 March 2013 - 05:55 AM.

[SaCkaveli20]

I still find it infuriating that Holland didnt sign Alex Semin. He's playing terrific hockey and the Canes love him.

[VM1138]

I still find it infuriating that Holland didnt sign Alex Semin. He's playing terrific hockey and the Canes love him.

Semin was a known commodity as a lazy, uninspired player whom teammates disliked. Do we really need another one? Lazy, that is. I think all our players get along.

[Dabura]

Semin was a known commodity as a lazy, uninspired player whom teammates disliked. Do we really need another one? Lazy, that is. I think all our players get along.

 

He and the 'canes seem to be doing pretty well for themselves. Just sayin'.

[VM1138]

He and the 'canes seem to be doing pretty well for themselves. Just sayin'.

 

And Holland should have predicted this, how?  Everyone was curious about Semin, but when they "kicked the tires" most backed away.  That should tell you something.

[Dabura]

And Holland should have predicted this, how?  Everyone was curious about Semin, but when they "kicked the tires" most backed away.  That should tell you something.

 

Not saying he should've predicted it. Just saying, it's not like Semin's an all-out, balls-to-the-walls cancer who barely moves on the ice and drags everyone down and blah blah blah. We need goals (just as we have for the past several seasons, if not more), and Semin has a nose for the back of the net. He wasn't high on my list this summer, but, well, credit where it's due, I guess.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80]

[Playmaker]

There is only one thing holding this team back and its consistency.

Where is the Dats that electrified the hockey world single handidly toying with the preds.

Wheres the Z that beat St loius.

Wheres the Mule from the last game and a half.

Whers the Jimmy for the last coulple games.

I can go on and on for each player but I think you can see my point. I want those efforts all the time. Its a grind , I get that but we all have seen the flashes in each player....we just need to see it more often and as a group each game.

This team has the talent to win the cup this year IF we get the effort that is expected out of each Wing from top to bottom.

Seriously, if this team can find its rythym and be hitting on all cylinders come playoffs time they will
Be a force!

Only concern I have is the physical wear of playoffs... Its a different game and we aint exActly known for our durability.

I was just about to post the same thing.  If our stars don't start showing up every night, the Wings can forget it.  These guys need to be on the scoresheet every game.  Yes, they have crappy wingers and yeah, they play well defensively.  Not good enough.  Yesterday's game was the perfect example.  We needed one or both of those guys to take the team by the balls and carry them.  Sorry to say but they were as MIA as the rest of the team.  The five goals in 3 games and then going pointless for 10 or 12 isn't going to cut it.

[Red Crazy]

And Holland should have predicted this, how?  Everyone was curious about Semin, but when they "kicked the tires" most backed away.  That should tell you something.

I am not a big Semin fan either but sometimes you have to take a chance. Signing Colo with his injury history was insane and bringing back Sammy was a pure panic move.

[kipwinger]

For some reason the Wings fell prey to a massive episode of "groupthink" this summer.  They were willing to throw MASSIVE contracts at Suter and Parise, two guys who have NEVER played like they deserved that much money.  Presumably because they bought into their underserved reputations.  Yet they were scared away from Semin, who's contract is a lot but at 1 year wasn't going to be a problem, also presumably because of an undeserved reputation.  I have no idea why Semin got singled out for laziness when the entire Washington organization has the exact same problem. 

 

Semin clearly isn't a long term solution, but who can say they wouldn't rather have him on Pav's wing, just for this year, rather than sit on all this cap space for the season.  He couldn't possibly have hurt us this season, and he would have had ZERO negative impact on the future either. 

Edited by kipwinger, 11 March 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[Buppy]

Something I don't really get:

 

We're all, "Yay! The young guys are finally getting a shot, and showing their stuff! So there are gonna be some big changes this summer!" But the only reason the young guys are up on The Big Club to begin with is injuries (e.g. Helm, Bertuzzi, Filppula, Samuelsson, Colaiacovo....) So what happens when these guys get healthy and return to the lineup? What happens to our youth movement then? Am I way off in assuming Tatar & Co. will get flushed back down to Grand Rapids and Holland will say something to the effect of "This whole ordeal has shown us our young guys can step in when called upon. (But there's just no room for them as is)"? Which is ok, I guess. I just can't wrap my head around why everyone seems to think all these young guys are now full-timers.

We're not likely to get fully healthy before the trade deadline. At that point, the roster limit is removed so we can still keep all the kids up (assuming we have cap space, which we should). If Lashoff was going to get demoted, he certainly would have been already. At most he could spend a short time down then be back up after the deadline. Of course, if White/Cola/Huskins/trade addition were to come in and play really well it might push him out of the lineup, in which case he'd probably be sent back down for the playing time.

 

Forwards are a bit tougher. No question that Flip and Helm will be in the lineup if healthy, along with Pav, Hank, Mule, and Brunner. I would guess Abby, Cleary, and one other PKer (Miller/Emmy/Eaves - probably rotating unless one steps up) would be in. Sammy for a RH point shot makes sense, and Bert likely makes it. Leaves one spot for Tootoo, Tots, Andy, and Gus to fight over. I think if the kids want to stay in the lineup, they need to show they can kill penalties or outscore the size advantage of Bert and Sammy.