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Trade deadline has ended before it even begins

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#1 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:50 PM

http://kuklaskorner...._medium=twitter

 

Well, I guess that's the end of that.  I could spout off for about 5 pages on this, but I won't I'd rather let you guys take over from here.

 

Suffice it to say, this is one of the only 5 sentences Holland seems capable of saying lately.  Anyone who "likes our team" and thinks that "getting healthy players back will be like making trades and will be our deadline additions" is living in La-La Land.

 

This team is far from good enough to even consider such ridiculous inactivity.


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#2 Dominator2005

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:33 PM

I guess that Franzen, Bert, Sammy, Carlo, Helm... are going to be our additions at the deadline... at the same time, Franzen is our deadline addition for the past 4 years. Kenny just can't make a trade.
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#3 T.Low

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:22 AM

http://kuklaskorner...._medium=twitter

 

Well, I guess that's the end of that.  I could spout off for about 5 pages on this, but I won't I'd rather let you guys take over from here.

 

Suffice it to say, this is one of the only 5 sentences Holland seems capable of saying lately.  Anyone who "likes our team" and thinks that "getting healthy players back will be like making trades and will be our deadline additions" is living in La-La Land.

 

This team is far from good enough to even consider such ridiculous inactivity.

 

 

I, for one, would like to hear you spout off.  What trades do you think are doable and why exactly would you do them?



#4 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:51 PM

I guess that Franzen, Bert, Sammy, Carlo, Helm... are going to be our additions at the deadline... at the same time, Franzen is our deadline addition for the past 4 years. Kenny just can't make a trade.

That's the frustrating part.  He can, but just won't.  There are deals to be had for guys who can help this team.  Holland just won't do them.  He's too afraid to make a deal because of injury.  He's giving up on the deadline before it even begins.  I'm sick and tired of seeing us stand by and do nothing while everyone around is either already better or gets better.

 

 

 

I, for one, would like to hear you spout off.  What trades do you think are doable and why exactly would you do them?

OK then, you asked for it :P

 

Ken Holland has become a broken record.  Every year, it's the same old line of BS when the deadline rolls around.  He sits on his cap space and gives an excuse for doing nothing long before the deadline even gets here.

 

This just isn't wise with this team.  When you have as many injuries as we've had, you make deals to fill the holes.  We haven't, and because of that, this team has hovered around .500 and struggled mightily with inconsistency.  We have more dead weight on the roster than we know what to do with.

 

Unfortunately, because of having so much dead weight (and signing more dead weight in the offseason i.e. Samuelsson and Colaiacovo), trading will be tough.  We have depth in the minors and have many attractive prospects.  Riley Sheahan and Landon Ferraro come to mind.  Both project to be NHL-caliber forwards and could be very attractive trade pieces.  Sheahan's recent run-in with the law may make him hard to deal, though.  With guys like Jarnkrok, Pulkinnen, Tatar, Andersson, and Nyquist, these two are valuable, but expendable.  They can also be easily replaced in this year's draft.  Draft picks will probably have to be added to deals involving them.

 

If needed, we have plenty of roster players who we could add in.  Get rid of Clearly.  Old, slow, and doesn't provide much at either end anymore.  I wouldn't mind dealing Ericsson.  He's way too soft and makes a ton of mistakes.  Huskins can easily fill his spot while making far fewer mistakes.  Samuelsson and Colaiacovo could probably be dealt.  Both are made of glass and won't provide very much even when healthy.  I'd rather keep good checkers/PK'ers like Miller, Emmerton and Eaves.  Helm, Tatar and Andersson are out of the question.

 

Ian White is the interesting trump card in all this.  He could be very valuable to a team like Carolina or St. Louis, who are seeking upgrades on defense and have forwards to deal.  The fact is, the D-corps has played much better since he's been a scratch.  I love White, don't get me wrong, but his recent comments have irked me.  If a need can be filled, send him on his way.

 

Our D-corps has settled in and their play has vastly improved.  For me, that need has somewhat dissipated.  The focus should be on acquiring a proven sniper to play in the top-6.  I'm not asking for a 40-goal superstar, just someone who can twitch the twine regularly.  Franzen can't do that.  Let's not even go there.  Filpulla has regressed badly.  Bertuzzi is just too old to count on.  Zetterberg only has 6 on the season.

 

I would look at guys like these:

 

Marian Gaborik - Slight rumblings that he's available.  He has a massive cap hit and would be very costly.  However, Glen Sather never shies away from a deal and the Rangers need depth at forward.  Rick Nash makes Gabby expendable.  He would be unreal playing in our top-6.  He would be unreal playing in anyone's top-6

 

Peter Mueller - Has a lot of skill and is still developing at 24.  Could be low-risk/high-reward type of deal.  Can score and was a 20-goal guy his rookie season.

 

Dany Heatley - I know, I know.  He's not the elite player he used to be.  But, put him with Datsyuk, and I guarantee his goal totals come back up.  This guy can still fill the net.  Is he what he was in Atlanta and Ottawa?  No.  But he can still put the biscuit in the basket.  It's as simple as that.

 

Patrik Berglund - Gets overlooked with the precense of T.J. Oshie and Alex Steen, but is nonetheless very skilled and a proven goal-scorer.  25+ is the floor with his skill level.  Again, if played with Datsyuk, could score 30+.

 

David Perron - If he can stay healthy, has 30-goal skill and work ethic without a great center.  Power-forward who plays physical and gives a great effort.  Has proven his consistency.

 

Matt D'Agostini - Injuries are a concern, but he has shown his ability to score when healthy.  Had 21 goals in his only full season.  If the concussion is behind him and he's ready to produce, Datsyuk could make him into a very valuable forward.

 

Mike Ribeiro - Crafty forward with a proven nose for the net.  Has been around winning teams and would know his role well.

 

Ryane Clowe - Has proven his goal-scoring ability in the past.  He's basically another Abdelkader with a lot more offensive skill.  Struggles this season would probably steer Holland away.

 

Jarome Iginla - Will have big competition from Pittsburgh, Boston, Buffalo and Philadelphia, but would be a good pickup.  Obviously can score and would fit in well.

 

Brendan Morrow - A little bit of a stretch, but is a gritty power-forward who can score goals.  Good leadership qualities.  Age is still a concern, only consider if a rental.

 

Tuomo Ruutu - Jim Rutherford probably won't want to move him, but he's relatively young and has good skill and physicality.  We tried and failed last year.

 

Drew Stafford - Really a last resort, but can also score goals.  Only consider if all else fails.  He's injury-prone and proven to be a little inconsistent.


Edited by DetroitRedWings1993, 06 March 2013 - 01:17 PM.

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#5 BadgerBob

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:30 PM

Dany Heatley - I know, I know.  He's not the elite player he used to be.  But, put him with Datsyuk, and I guarantee his goal totals come back up.  This guy can still fill the net.  Is he what he was in Atlanta and Ottawa?  No.  But he can still put the biscuit in the basket.  It's as simple as that.

 

I would NOT want Heatley. I grew up watching him at UW and loved watching him early on in the pros. I live close to MN and go watch the Wild occasionally. This guy floats around almost as much as Franzen and sometimes just looks like he doesn't really care. Mind you he was playing with Koivu and Parise and couldn't make anything of it and has been sent down to the second line and then the third line. If he can't produce with those two on his line he won't produce with anyone. He's washed up if you ask me.



#6 Adidarw

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:43 PM

From a professional standpoint, business standpoint, common sense standpoint... all of these... Ken Holland's wisdom make sense.
 
I'll use this as my source of injuries: http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/injuries
 
Take a look at those names for the Red Wings.  The majority of them have missed a lot of games.  They are all solid players and/or veterans NHLers.  At the moment, the Wings are not at the place in the standings that we have been accustomed to the past 15 or so years.  However, given the circumstances (injuries, heavily relying on younger players, several long-time veterans departing, just simply not having the same core group of guys we had 10 years ago, etc.), they are in a very good place in the standings.  We have been used to being in the top 10, but now a series of unfortunate events has brought us where we are.  For a team that has so many injured veterans, I'm happy with how well they're doing.

Now just imagine that, for all intents and purposes, those injured players are free agents.  Now, around the trade deadline the headlines read "Wings make big moves at trade deadline, acquire Bertuzzi, Helm, Colaiacovo, Samuelsson and Filppula."  My thought is: "Wow!"
 
Players coming back from lengthy injuries really IS just like making big trades or signings, rather anyone wants to believe it or not.  That's veteran players coming back into the game, where our team has been tested without them.
 
If anyone translates Holland's logic to "Our injured players returning to play will shoot us up to first place in the standings." Well, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you're expectations are too high by any standard, and you need to get your head out of the clouds.  Our returning veterans will definitely improve the team's overall performance.  It could be a matter of being in a "safer" 7th or 8th position (league-wide standings) rather than a nail-biting 15th or 16th position, where the Wings may not make the playoffs at all.  Maybe even 7th or 8th is shooting too high.  The fact of the matter is that adding those veterans to the lineup will be a huge benefit.

EDIT: It is my belief that being a little more conservative with trades and signings today allows a team to build camaraderie and chemistry, which makes for a much better team tomorrow than acquiring star players to fill in gaps. It's like a snowball effect. Let the snowball grow, don't make it lopsided by packing snow in areas to make it bigger... you'll just knock it off course!

Edited by Adidarw, 06 March 2013 - 04:50 PM.


#7 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:05 PM

Our injured players are either A) not producing despite talent (Helm, Filpulla), B) too old to be of any real use anymore (Bertuzzi) or C) so injury-prone that we can expect them back on the injured list within a few days of coming back (Colaiacovo, Samuelsson). Sammy actually falls into two of those categories. That does not equate to much, so no, they are not like making trades. The idea of making a trade is to come out better than when you entered. Getting older, slower, more mistake-prone and less productive is not my idea of making a trade.

We can't expect so much of the team before and be so soft on them now. It doesn't work that way. Injuries are a convenient excuse that the organization (and, quite frankly, many fans) have clung to like their lives depended on it. None of our injured players will change the fact that our offense blows. And when it doesn't blow, it's inconsistent.

Regardless of the injuries, the core of our offense (Kronwall, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filpulla, Franzen, Brunner) has been relatively healthy all season. We've been dragged down by dead weight like Cleary and Ericsson and have been content to fall back on the injury excuse.

We have now become a team that makes excuses. Injuries are no excuse for being a team that's anywhere from mediocre to God-awful on a nightly basis.

Go out, make a deal or two, and fix your terrible offense. The "let things play out with the young kids and wait to get healthy" BS makes me think the team has committed to losing. That's unacceptable. Not only that, but there's no guarentee that this miracle health plan some of you have going will even last. Given our track record this season, it won't. With another scoring forward or two, this team can compete without the two old farts, one made-of-glass defenseman, one offense-less sparkplug, and one recurring disappointment on our injured list.

We're a contending team with a front office content to make excuses and act like a celler-dweller. Do that and there won't be any fans when the wins finally do come back.

Edited by DetroitRedWings1993, 06 March 2013 - 05:19 PM.

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#8 LeftWinger

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:09 PM

That's the frustrating part.  He can, but just won't.  There are deals to be had for guys who can help this team.  Holland just won't do them.  He's too afraid to make a deal because of injury.  He's giving up on the deadline before it even begins.  I'm sick and tired of seeing us stand by and do nothing while everyone around is either already better or gets better.

 

 

 

OK then, you asked for it :P

 

Ken Holland has become a broken record.  Every year, it's the same old line of BS when the deadline rolls around.  He sits on his cap space and gives an excuse for doing nothing long before the deadline even gets here.

 

This just isn't wise with this team.  When you have as many injuries as we've had, you make deals to fill the holes.  We haven't, and because of that, this team has hovered around .500 and struggled mightily with inconsistency.  We have more dead weight on the roster than we know what to do with.

 

Unfortunately, because of having so much dead weight (and signing more dead weight in the offseason i.e. Samuelsson and Colaiacovo), trading will be tough.  We have depth in the minors and have many attractive prospects.  Riley Sheahan and Landon Ferraro come to mind.  Both project to be NHL-caliber forwards and could be very attractive trade pieces.  Sheahan's recent run-in with the law may make him hard to deal, though.  With guys like Jarnkrok, Pulkinnen, Tatar, Andersson, and Nyquist, these two are valuable, but expendable.  They can also be easily replaced in this year's draft.  Draft picks will probably have to be added to deals involving them.

 

If needed, we have plenty of roster players who we could add in.  Get rid of Clearly.  Old, slow, and doesn't provide much at either end anymore.  I wouldn't mind dealing Ericsson.  He's way too soft and makes a ton of mistakes.  Huskins can easily fill his spot while making far fewer mistakes.  Samuelsson and Colaiacovo could probably be dealt.  Both are made of glass and won't provide very much even when healthy.  I'd rather keep good checkers/PK'ers like Miller, Emmerton and Eaves.  Helm, Tatar and Andersson are out of the question.

 

Ian White is the interesting trump card in all this.  He could be very valuable to a team like Carolina or St. Louis, who are seeking upgrades on defense and have forwards to deal.  The fact is, the D-corps has played much better since he's been a scratch.  I love White, don't get me wrong, but his recent comments have irked me.  If a need can be filled, send him on his way.

 

Our D-corps has settled in and their play has vastly improved.  For me, that need has somewhat dissipated.  The focus should be on acquiring a proven sniper to play in the top-6.  I'm not asking for a 40-goal superstar, just someone who can twitch the twine regularly.  Franzen can't do that.  Let's not even go there.  Filpulla has regressed badly.  Bertuzzi is just too old to count on.  Zetterberg only has 6 on the season.

 

I would look at guys like these:

 

Marian Gaborik - Slight rumblings that he's available.  He has a massive cap hit and would be very costly.  However, Glen Sather never shies away from a deal and the Rangers need depth at forward.  Rick Nash makes Gabby expendable.  He would be unreal playing in our top-6.  He would be unreal playing in anyone's top-6

 

Peter Mueller - Has a lot of skill and is still developing at 24.  Could be low-risk/high-reward type of deal.  Can score and was a 20-goal guy his rookie season.

 

Dany Heatley - I know, I know.  He's not the elite player he used to be.  But, put him with Datsyuk, and I guarantee his goal totals come back up.  This guy can still fill the net.  Is he what he was in Atlanta and Ottawa?  No.  But he can still put the biscuit in the basket.  It's as simple as that.

 

Patrik Berglund - Gets overlooked with the precense of T.J. Oshie and Alex Steen, but is nonetheless very skilled and a proven goal-scorer.  25+ is the floor with his skill level.  Again, if played with Datsyuk, could score 30+.

 

David Perron - If he can stay healthy, has 30-goal skill and work ethic without a great center.  Power-forward who plays physical and gives a great effort.  Has proven his consistency.

 

Matt D'Agostini - Injuries are a concern, but he has shown his ability to score when healthy.  Had 21 goals in his only full season.  If the concussion is behind him and he's ready to produce, Datsyuk could make him into a very valuable forward.

 

Mike Ribeiro - Crafty forward with a proven nose for the net.  Has been around winning teams and would know his role well.

 

Ryane Clowe - Has proven his goal-scoring ability in the past.  He's basically another Abdelkader with a lot more offensive skill.  Struggles this season would probably steer Holland away.

 

Jarome Iginla - Will have big competition from Pittsburgh, Boston, Buffalo and Philadelphia, but would be a good pickup.  Obviously can score and would fit in well.

 

Brendan Morrow - A little bit of a stretch, but is a gritty power-forward who can score goals.  Good leadership qualities.  Age is still a concern, only consider if a rental.

 

Tuomo Ruutu - Jim Rutherford probably won't want to move him, but he's relatively young and has good skill and physicality.  We tried and failed last year.

 

Drew Stafford - Really a last resort, but can also score goals.  Only consider if all else fails.  He's injury-prone and proven to be a little inconsistent.

 

 

I think most of these guys would cost too much, although all would bring something to the table that the Wings lack in one way or another...

 

I was a bit upset that Holland didn't sign Mueller in the off-season. He was one of those young UFA's that come up once in awhile and I think would have been a nice addition.  He could still be an option considering Helm's unknown availability this season.  Then again, he is a UFA again in the off season...still would be a nice addition, but unless Holland cuts lose a few old men, we will have zero room...


Edited by LeftWinger, 06 March 2013 - 05:11 PM.

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#9 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:24 PM

 
 
I think most of these guys would cost too much, although all would bring something to the table that the Wings lack in one way or another...
 
I was a bit upset that Holland didn't sign Mueller in the off-season. He was one of those young UFA's that come up once in awhile and I think would have been a nice addition.  He could still be an option considering Helm's unknown availability this season.  Then again, he is a UFA again in the off season...still would be a nice addition, but unless Holland cuts lose a few old men, we will have zero room...


I agree, Mueller would've been awesome to have. Especially for depth's sake. He can do a lot of different things. Like I said, there are some roster players that need to go. We could move some salary and cap them in.

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#10 Adidarw

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

Our injured players are either A) not producing despite talent (Helm, Filpulla), B) too old to be of any real use anymore (Bertuzzi) or C) so injury-prone that we can expect them back on the injured list within a few days of coming back (Colaiacovo, Samuelsson). Sammy actually falls into two of those categories. That does not equate to much, so no, they are not like making trades. The idea of making a trade is to come out better than when you entered. Getting older, slower, more mistake-prone and less productive is not my idea of making a trade.

We can't expect so much of the team before and be so soft on them now. It doesn't work that way. Injuries are a convenient excuse that the organization (and, quite frankly, many fans) have clung to like their lives depended on it. None of our injured players will change the fact that our offense blows. And when it doesn't blow, it's inconsistent.

Regardless of the injuries, the core of our offense (Kronwall, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filpulla, Franzen, Brunner) has been relatively healthy all season. We've been dragged down by dead weight like Cleary and Ericsson and have been content to fall back on the injury excuse.

We have now become a team that makes excuses. Injuries are no excuse for being a team that's anywhere from mediocre to God-awful on a nightly basis.

Go out, make a deal or two, and fix your terrible offense. The "let things play out with the young kids and wait to get healthy" BS makes me think the team has committed to losing. That's unacceptable. Not only that, but there's no guarentee that this miracle health plan some of you have going will even last. Given our track record this season, it won't. With another scoring forward or two, this team can compete without the two old farts, one made-of-glass defenseman, one offense-less sparkplug, and one recurring disappointment on our injured list.

We're a contending team with a front office content to make excuses and act like a celler-dweller. Do that and there won't be any fans when the wins finally do come back.

Our injured players are not producing because they are injured.  If you aren't participating, you aren't producing by association because you're injured (lol).  Helm has been out most of the season.  So you're right, I guess he hasn't been producing.  But it's because he is injured, not because he is playing and wandering around the ice.

 

Bertuzzi is not "too old to be of any use".  He may not be an all-star at the top of the stat categories, but he's far from being useless.

 

Saying we can "expect so-and-so player to be back on the injury list after a few games" is a huge generalization.  What we can expect is the team Doctors are doing their jobs.  If they say a player is OK to play, then they're OK to play.  If it was so bad that a player has a history of playing 2 games, then being out for 10, then playing 3 games, out for 7 over a long period of time then that person would not be playing in the NHL.

 

"We are now a team that makes excuses."  Actually... it's the fans that are making the injury excuses, as well as maybe some media folks.  There are no interviews of coaches or players in the Red Wings organization proper saying "yep, we are where we are because we have too many injuries... this sucks."

 

I don't know what "Miracle health plan" you're talking about.  It's perfectly logical to assume that veteran players returning to the team after a lengthy injury is going to help at least a little.  There is no miracle.  I don't think anybody is expecting the Wings to shoot to first place.  I'll bet one of the team's current goals is just to be in healthy playoff position.  By that I mean somewhere in the middle where we're not bouncing in and out of the playoff race constantly.

 

The fact is the team has had to work around a lot of injuries.  That's not an excuse, it's a fact.  Nobody is pointing at any excuses.  The team has been playing around the injuries, and has been doing that fairly well.  Now when those players start coming back, and the injury list is much shorter, we can get back to talking about our veteran team.



#11 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:09 PM

1. Filpulla hasn't been hurt all season.  He's been healthy up until the last few games, and been generally ineffective.  Helm was never anything more than a third-or-fourth line sparkplug even before he got hurt.  He won't solve our horrible offense.  So yes, neither player has been producing, before or after injuries.

 

2. Old, slow, and not the player he used to be.  The only sad part about that statement is that he's an upgrade over Abdelkader on the second-line.  So I guess you're right by default.  He's less useless than Abdelkader in a second-line role.

 

3. It's not a generalization.  It is very reasonable to assume that, given their history, neither Samuelsson or Colaicovo will be healthy for very long.  They're injury-prone.  Holland knew that when he signed them.  And yet, he signed them anyways.  He even gave Sammy a no-trade clause.  It's really a moot point because no one will come calling for Samuelsson, which acts as the ultimate no-trade clause.  Colaiacovo has become expendable, frankly.  Lashoff is pretty much the same player, but younger, much more talented, less expensive, and far less injury-prone.

 

4. Holland and Babcock have both cited injuries as the reason for our struggles multiple times during the season.  So how do they solve that?  Sit on their butts and hope things don't go totally dark before we get healthy.  Great strategy.  They've been optimistic about it, as in this interview between Brendan Savage: http://www.mlive.com...eral_mana.html.  But, he cites injuries as a reason for struggling.  Have they been there?  Sure.  But great teams play through that.  It's win or stay home in this league.  We used to understand that.  We didn't give up and suck when Stevie tore his knee apart or when Howard broke his finger.

 

5. If they were players who could be counted upon to produce offense consistently, then yes.  If anything, their re-insertion into the lineup ruins the chemistry we've just gotten finished developing and will likely force Tatar and Andersson back into the minors.  I would gladly give Samuelsson's spot to Tatar.  I'd do that move any day of the week.  I'd love their expectations (and mine) to be that low.  It would make life a lot easier.  But this is Detroit.  There are very high expectations.  That comes with winning.  Pressure comes from all sides and if you aren't winning consistently, then you better do your damnedest to fix the issue.

 

6. "Fairly well" is a subjective term.  A fringe playoff team should not be this team's ceiling.  Like I said, we've had mostly depth guys injured for great expanses of the season, besides maybe Bertuzzi.  The core group has remained intact.  And yet, we still cannot score.  Zetterberg and Datsyuk have only missed one game combined.  Franzen has played most of our games, so has Filpulla.

 

Look, I want to agree.  Maybe I'm being too hard on everyone.  But, to me, that's what being a fan is all about.  Watch every game and expect the best effort organization-wide.  If you've ever watched Franzen play, that's simply not the case.  I'm not saying blow the team up and start over.  I'm saying pay attention to who's available and make some moves to bolster our forward depth and add that top-6 goal-scorer or two we desperately need.  We have too many passers and not enough finishers.  Fact is, none of the guys coming back fill that need.  We've needed that since Hossa flipped us the bird and walked.  By no means should we go nuts at the deadline.  We have one focused need.  The best thing that could've happened is the defense sorting itself out.  We can focus on adding another scorer.


Edited by DetroitRedWings1993, 06 March 2013 - 10:12 PM.

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#12 Adidarw

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:09 AM

My main point is that these players coming back provides us with veterans.  It's not really about skill, per se.  Someone who has played at least a full (combined) season or two will make the little decisions a bit more quickly and will make the right decisions along with feeling more comfortable playing at the NHL level.  To me, that's what the Wings need right now.  It's nice having these young guys called up and doing great, but I think a veteran presence would go a long way.

 

I'm no pro hockey analyst, but I can appreciate when a guy knows to zig instead of zag.  No matter who they pick to put on the Wings roster, they will always make a smarter play than if I was the one on the ice.  It still makes a difference between a veteran and a rookie, with some rare exceptions.  I'm not necessarily saying Bertuzzi is any better or worse than anyone else, but he has been around and knows little things that the young guys may not think to do, or may not feel comfortable trying at the NHL level.  Same with Sammy.  I'm not a huge fan of him, but in the Wings' current situation I think all the veteran presence we can get will help.



#13 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:14 AM

Yeah, he provides a nice veteran presence, but that's not the issue. Having a veteran presence isn't the Wings' issue.  It's offense and the power-play.  Sammy and Bert probably won't help that very much.  Sure, they're good to have from an experience standpoint, but when the chips are down, will they be able to bend the nets?  From what I've seen, probably not.

 

All these injured guys will take time to get back into the swing of things, too.  We may be past the deadline and far out of the playoffs by the time they come around.

 

Not only that, but I haven't heard a very peachy prognosis on anyone, either.  They have no idea when Helm or Bertuzzi will be even skating full-time, let alone playing.  Samuelsson is still "weeks away".  Colaiacovo and Filpulla are close, but they still can't say when they'll be back.

 

We have deal-able assets and several guys available from sure-fire sellers (Washington, Buffalo, Florida) who can help the offense and the power-play.  I agree that we shouldn't make a blockbuster deal.  That's just foolish given how important our draft picks and prospects are.  But a deal for a scorer on the cheap?  Sure, I'd do it.  Pav needs wingers.  He's having to do it by himself out there.  That's the sad truth of it.


The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is rated PG-13 for epic battle sequences.


#14 e_prime

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

Touching on some of the names you mentioned earlier, '93. ...and I'm going to skip the ones that are on pretty much everyone's list of UFA rental types (Clowe, Iggy, etc.) and go for some of the more interesting names.


Note: I'm not trying to call you out and say, "these are ridiculous options and would never happen because of x.y,z. Go back to your video games and try again" because I like to have conversations about making our team better.  I will say that I think some of your assessments are through the "grass is always greener" and/or "if only we had moved on x" perspective... which I think is easy to fall into and the thought of many a fan of teams around the league.

 

So...

 

Mueller:
Coming into the season Mueller was a "huuumungous beeeg" question mark.
He wasn't qualified by his former team, Colorado, after spending almost two years on the shelf due to concussion issues. I'm sure that a lot of teams thought about signing him and taking a chance but being the physical game it is and the nature of concussions in this physical sport of hockey, many passed. Granted teams take chances on oft injured guys all the time (ahem, Sammy *coughcough*Colo*coughcough*) ...but concussion is a different beast.
So, he was picked up as a UFA by Florida, a team desperate to build off of their previous year's showing.  A team willing to take that high risk/high reward chance. So far, it's working out nicely.  He's on pace to match his rookie season output.
He'll be an RFA again this year due to number of games played, so even though Tallon will be a seller, I'm guessing he'll be re-uped at a relatively low cost and kept rather than moved, especially because he's gelling nicely with some of their younger talent.

Heatley/Gaborik:
Both of these guys are huge talents and certainly the sniper that we need to bolster our top line, but both have huge cap hits for the remainder of the season and the following year.  To the tune of $7.5 million. I think that number handcuffs the team in a way that Holland isn't willing to manage. I think he was willing to take on that number with Suter or Parise because he saw them as key pieces for the future of the team. Gaborik and/or Heatley, not so much.  Maybe next year as a rental, but not this year with that imposing cap hit.

 

Berglund/Perron/D'Agostini:
All St. Louis players.
I know that we're probably headed to the Eastern Conference, and that inter-divisional trades DO happen, but until we are safely away, I don't see St. Louis making any trades with us.
Additionally, Berglund and D'Agostini are RFAs. Maybe you've noticed, but Ken Holland is not an offer-sheet kind of guy. 

Perron is signed for a few years and again, is a player with previous concussion issues.

 

Ruutu:  I do like his style of play, but he's on the shelf -- currently injured. He's also signed for four years for a pretty penny - a team that he wanted to re-sign with and did. To others, he might be viewed as a movable piece from that roster, but I think in the same way that Holland views some of our injured players coming back for the playoffs, so does Rutherford with Ruutu.

 

Stafford:   Although known to be streaky, he's a typically a consistent point production guy, young and big-bodied. $4mil cap hit.  On a team that's currently a huge mess, I'm not sure why this would be the piece that they'd be looking to move. Even if Reiger is fired, an incoming GM is going to look at someone like Stafford and say, this guy's probably a keeper.

 

With the exception of Ribeiro and Heatley, you've mentioned a lot of players who tend to miss some time.  One of your main arguments with players like Sammy, Bert, and Cola is that they are oft injured. I know they're different injured players, but they're still of the same ilk and many of them have had SERIOUS concussion issues.  Also, a lot of them are signed to longer and more expensive deals than that of Sammy, Bert, and Cola.

Many view these deals as bad, but they're not handcuffing like some other contacts out there.

 

It's certainly frustrating to have these players on the shelf and sometimes painful to watch other teams make moves to seemingly improve their team, but currently we're sitting anywhere from 6th to 12th depending on the day... Bert, Sammy, Flip and Helm coming back undoubtedly would be an improvement to our forward corps. Whether you see it as an improvement or not, is moot.

It adds depth and flexibility and knowledge of the system to the lineup without having to give up a single roster player, prospect, or pick.

 

I'm not saying a little shakeup wouldn't be nice or that it wouldn't add a spark to the offense, but Holland isn't going to make a move for the sake of making a move... we've known this for a loooong time.

We also know that he's not one to show his hand, he's willing to see what's out there, but he's not going to overpay. 

Much to your dismay '93, I think he's going to stand pat until he sees what he's really got.


QUOTE
(AtomicPunk @ February 4, 2010 - 12:16AM)

Imma let you finish, and your cap numbers are all good and all that, but imma let Kenny figure it out. Kenny's cap numbers were the best cap numbers this year.

#15 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:49 PM

I would agree with that assessment if any of the guys coming back filled the need we have.  Our offense sucks.  It shouldn't, but it does.  We have no consistent goal-scorers.  Not one.  And now, more than likely, no moves will be made to improve that.  Getting those guys back and healthy is great, no question about that.  But that does not fill our biggest need: finding someone to play in the top-6 who can score goals.


The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is rated PG-13 for epic battle sequences.






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