evilmrt 636 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Grandfather it in. Big Bert has spoken. I hate to see top talent be wasted over "freedom". This isn't everyday life we're talking about, its the NHL. And it is in everyone's best interests here to preserve players from accidents. Otherwise, we lose great players, the overall talent level is weakened, and the league isn't the same. The "rights" of the individual are trumped. Most of us remember Yzerman getting a puck in the eye, yes? How about him, as GM, asking TB players to wear visors? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Grown men, playing a tough sport so it should be 100 % the players choice, if they want to wear one. Having said that, as with Kevlar socks I think after the first major injury if they still refuse to wear more protection like gear they should pay a bit of their insurance by themselves (based on their salary). 1 wings1110 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WINGS & FLOW 25 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Grandfather it in. Big Bert has spoken. I hate to see top talent be wasted over "freedom". This isn't everyday life we're talking about, its the NHL. And it is in everyone's best interests here to preserve players from accidents. Otherwise, we lose great players, the overall talent level is weakened, and the league isn't the same. The "rights" of the individual are trumped. Most of us remember Yzerman getting a puck in the eye, yes? How about him, as GM, asking TB players to wear visors? Whos shot was that? wasnt that one of our D men?..........? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegerkin 189 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Grandfather it in. Big Bert has spoken. Boldly following in Craig MacTavish's skates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WINGS & FLOW 25 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Whos shot was that? wasnt that one of our D men?..........? that smoked Stevie in the head?......Hatcher? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ally 448 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 I'd like to see the visor be grandfathered in but IMO things like Kevlar socks should just become mandatory for everyone. I see no reason not to considering they don't affect any part of a player's play (can't even argue vision like you could for visors). In a league that's always going on about player safety it seems ridiculous not to implement tiny changes like this that protect elite guys from crazy bad injuries. 1 WINGS & FLOW reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WINGS & FLOW 25 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 I'd like to see the visor be grandfathered in but IMO things like Kevlar socks should just become mandatory for everyone. I see no reason not to considering they don't affect any part of a player's play (can't even argue vision like you could for visors). In a league that's always going on about player safety it seems ridiculous not to implement tiny changes like this that protect elite guys from crazy bad injuries. Even I wear them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Grown men, playing a tough sport so it should be 100 % the players choice, if they want to wear one. Having said that, as with Kevlar socks I think after the first major injury if they still refuse to wear more protection like gear they should pay a bit of their insurance by themselves (based on their salary). So NFL guys should be allowed to play without helmets if they want? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 So NFL guys should be allowed to play without helmets if they want? Nice strawman fallacy. He was talking specifically about players opting not to wear visors. He didn't say across the board pro athletes should be able to determine what protective equipment they will and won't wear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Nice strawman fallacy. He was talking specifically about players opting not to wear visors. He didn't say across the board pro athletes should be able to determine what protective equipment they will and won't wear. Uhhh, yah he did. "Grown men playing a tough sport, so it should be 100% their choice...". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Uhhh, yah he did. "Grown men playing a tough sport, so it should be 100% their choice...". Uhh, no he didn't. You left off the end of his sentence, I'm guessing intentionally, because it says "if they want to wear one." Meaning it should be their choice if they (NHL players) want to wear one (visors). You're taking one statement and using it completely out of context. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WINGS & FLOW 25 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Go hoop your visor 5 - 1 Wings! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Uhh, no he didn't. You left off the end of his sentence, I'm guessing intentionally, because it says "if they want to wear one." Meaning it should be their choice if they (NHL players) want to wear one (visors). You're taking one statement and using it completely out of context. His PREMISE that gives the NHL player the right to choose whether or not he wants to wear a visor is being a grown man playing a tough sport. That is true, correct? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 His PREMISE that gives the NHL player the right to choose whether or not he wants to wear a visor is being a grown man playing a tough sport. That is true, correct? The thread is "Should visors be mandatory in the NHL." His post was: Grown men, playing a tough sport so it should be 100 % the players choice, if they want to wear one. Having said that, as with Kevlar socks I think after the first major injury if they still refuse to wear more protection like gear they should pay a bit of their insurance by themselves (based on their salary). It's pretty clear he is saying in regards to visors he thinks it should be 100% a players choice. He made no claims about other sports or other protective equipment. Your post claiming he's saying NFL players shouldn't have to wear helmets has nothing to do with his statement. You either misinterpreted what he was saying or misrepresented it just to argue. I'm not going to diagram it out for you any more than that so I suggest you drop it. 1 frankgrimes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DeGraa55 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 Should be players choice. But I agree with someone saying once you have a major injury you should have to pay a major part of the insurance then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted March 7, 2013 The thread is "Should visors be mandatory in the NHL." His post was: It's pretty clear he is saying in regards to visors he thinks it should be 100% a players choice. He made no claims about other sports or other protective equipment. Your post claiming he's saying NFL players shouldn't have to wear helmets has nothing to do with his statement. You either misinterpreted what he was saying or misrepresented it just to argue. I'm not going to diagram it out for you any more than that so I suggest you drop it. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. He did not say "as far as hockey goes" and separate why hockey players should have the option of choosing to play with or without protective equipment. He stated "grown men playing a tough sport" as his basis for the visor being optional. So I called BS cuz I think that's a poor basis for reason. I think its the same one that caused goalies to go without masks and players without helmets. Its dangerous in my opinion. And I was the one saying "so NFL players shouldn't have to wear a helmet if they don't want to because they are grown men in a tough sport?". He never said that. I was responding to his reasoning and questioning it. That's all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StormJH1 231 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 not to stray away from the NHL but it wasn't mandatory in NASCAR to wear what's called the HANS device until they lost Dale Earnhardt in 2001. Sure it was always an option and available, but drivers hated wearing it and drivers like Earnhardt and Tony Stewart among others refused to do so. Even after his death the device met with a lot of resistance, but today there isn't a driver who would think twice about NOT wearing it. NASCAR and US Motorsports just made it mandatory within all sanctioned stock events and the "kids" "grew up" using the device and now it is like second nature to them...even the old guys that were around before 2001 now have been wearing in for over a decade and it has become a part of their car, not just a cumbersome restraint system... The same would happen with the NHL if they adopted the visor and Kevlar protection, it about 5 or so years, nobody would even think about what it was like without it... who was it back in the early 90's that wore what looked like football shoulder pads with a protector that was behind his helmet? If I figure it out and find a picture, I will post it....I think he played for the Sabres, but am not sure.... This is a GREAT post. The only possible downside I've heard to the mandatory shields (grandfathering in is fine with me) is the "player safety" issue - some players claiming they don't have as much of a feel for their surroundings while using one. I don't buy it, since over 60% of the league already uses them, including highly skilled players. But you're trying to tell me that that a HANS device in a racing car, which RESTRICTS HEAD MOVEMENT, is more of a nuisance than a visor in hockey? Face protection is mandatory in basically every level of hockey BUT the NHL, it makes no sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 These are grown men, 18+ most over 25. It should be there own decision on whether they wear a visor, if they get injured without one it is their fault. It is like riding a bike, a child should always have a helmet on, but adults should be able to choose if they were one or not, I personally do not like wearing a helmet, but I also don't ride on busy streets, mostly just leisure riding on bike trails. If an adult CHOOSES to put themselves in a position where they could suffer an injury, that is their own problem, not ours, or anyone else's place to dictate what they can or cannot do, just my opinion 2 Redwings 1926 and frankgrimes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jollymania 162 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 When visors are 20/20 and enhance the players view, don't cut the player, don't scratch, don't fog up, don't collect water, then make them mandatory. Until then players can determine if they are lucky or not and how safe they wanna be. 1 Redwings 1926 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
up2here 41 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 I always go back to the seatbelt laws for automobiles. Sometimes people are too stubborn or stupid to know whats good for them and their safety has to be enforced with laws, or in this case, rules. The "Grown Men making their choice" argument is weak as a kitten in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) The thread is "Should visors be mandatory in the NHL." His post was: It's pretty clear he is saying in regards to visors he thinks it should be 100% a players choice. He made no claims about other sports or other protective equipment. Your post claiming he's saying NFL players shouldn't have to wear helmets has nothing to do with his statement. You either misinterpreted what he was saying or misrepresented it just to argue. I'm not going to diagram it out for you any more than that so I suggest you drop it. Exactly my point :-) It is their choice, don't babysit them. Like you've mentioned, this is about hockey not about others ports. Hockey players are tough they know what they are doing and are smart enough, to be aware of the consequences. Edited March 7, 2013 by frankgrimes 1 Redwings 1926 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted March 7, 2013 I always go back to the seatbelt laws for automobiles. Sometimes people are too stubborn or stupid to know whats good for them and their safety has to be enforced with laws, or in this case, rules. The "Grown Men making their choice" argument is weak as a kitten in my opinion. maybe but it is my opinion. You aren't talking about getting rear ended and being launched 20 feet through a car window into an on-coming semi truck. We are talking about a puck or stick to the face. Yes the risk is there but to compare it to the seatbelt argument is kind of a stretch IMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
up2here 41 Report post Posted March 8, 2013 maybe but it is my opinion. You aren't talking about getting rear ended and being launched 20 feet through a car window into an on-coming semi truck. We are talking about a puck or stick to the face. Yes the risk is there but to compare it to the seatbelt argument is kind of a stretch IMO Oh I agree its a stretch and I seriously doubt that whether a player wears a visor or not would mean the difference between life and death (Like a seatbelt or helmet) but my point remains true. People are generally too stupid/stubborn to know whats good for them. In particular I find this to be very true of hockey players. With the new sticks all players are shooting harder now which means there's less time for players to react to deflections and shots. Unfortunately I think were going to see more incidents like the Staal one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted March 8, 2013 Visors should be mandatory for all players entering the league. They're already use to them. There is not a single valid argument of why they shouldn't be mandatory. Players use to be against helmets, but sometimes you need to protect played from themselves. ^this. this is exactly what it would be if they put the rule into effect... if you're in the league already, you have the choice (again most choose them anyway). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redwings 1926 47 Report post Posted March 8, 2013 Marc Staals horrible injury last night has re-sparked the debate on whether visors should be mandatory in the NHL. I personally feel they should be because history shows that hockey players arent that smart or are very stubborn. I have played a lot of hockey and have worn a visor for years and dont feel it inhibits me in any way. NHL players dont wanna wear visors, they wear shorter gloves exposing their wrists and forearms. Kevlar socks and armbands have been available for years and hardly anyone uses them. Neck protectors have been around even longer and I cant think of a single NHL who wears one yet EVERY single NHL player wear shin pads, protecting apparently the most vital of all body parts- The Shin. My answer is a resounding NO!! These are grown men capable of making their own decisions. All of this fear mongering and obsession with safety that's further pussifying every aspect of society has got to stop. At this rate, we might wake up one day only to find that we are not allowed to leave our own house because of "what could happen". Like life, there are certain risks involved with this sport. If you really think a rich, pampered athlete suffering from a stupid eye injury is such an atrocity then I suggest you pick up a history book, and read about the gladiators of ancient Rome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
