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nyqvististhefuture

wings arent winning the cup

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if they do ill gladly say i was an idiot and i was wrong but i think if most of us are realistic you'd realize we dont have great chances with lidstrom gone and stuart as well as losing rafalski 2 yrs ago and never getting a top d man back to win t all this season

the whole point to this is to calm down about trade deadline and not expect the wings to sell out the future for someone like bouwmeester, iginla or whomever. In fact id like to see us getting rid of guys like ian white and if possible samuelsson and coliacovo(although both been hurt all year so i doubt it could happen)If it was possible to do like a ian white for ryan whitney type deal id be down for something like that

we still got a good enough team to make the playoffs and if we can get rid of white and a few others and get extra draft picks instead of losing them for nothing then we should, but we shouldnt throw in someone like tatar,nyquist or our 1st rd pick in any deal this year

I hope to god we make the playoffs cause it wouldnt be the same but on the flip side i can see no better year not to get in if we had to choose the year since this is a shortened season and wouldnt hurt as much AND the draft is deep as hell and if we could get in the top 5 some how it could be worth it (landing seth jones would give us a #1 d for 10-20 yrs)

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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you're right - they definitely aren't winning the cup.

they should be sellers at the deadline, not buyers.

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I disagree with a lot of what both of you are saying. I legitimately think we are a piece or two from being as competitive as any team in the league. A big minute stay at home defenseman, and a top six winger like a Michael Ryder type (not him specifically) would improve this team a lot. Then with Helm back we'd have a pretty solid team.

I don't like the idea of stock piling picks because that essentially throws this season away as well as the next couple (until picks and prospects mature). By that time Datsyuk and Filppula may be long gone, Zetterberg will be on the decline, as will Franzen and Kronwall. In two or three years we might find we're further away from winning a cup then we are right now.

e_prime likes this

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You just saved me a lot of time in May and June, thanks!

Seriously, though. I don't think they have what it takes, either. When I watch a lot of other teams, they are faster, work harder, and just have the desire that our boys don't seem to have.

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if they do ill gladly say i was an idiot and i was wrong but i think if most of us are realistic you'd realize we dont have great chances with lidstrom gone and stuart as well as losing rafalski 2 yrs ago and never getting a top d man back to win t all this season

the whole point to this is to calm down about trade deadline and not expect the wings to sell out the future for someone like bouwmeester, iginla or whomever. In fact id like to see us getting rid of guys like ian white and if possible samuelsson and coliacovo(although both been hurt all year so i doubt it could happen)If it was possible to do like a ian white for ryan whitney type deal id be down for something like that

we still got a good enough team to make the playoffs and if we can get rid of white and a few others and get extra draft picks instead of losing them for nothing then we should, but we shouldnt throw in someone like tatar,nyquist or our 1st rd pick in any deal this year

I hope to god we make the playoffs cause it wouldnt be the same but on the flip side i can see no better year not to get in if we had to choose the year since this is a shortened season and wouldnt hurt as much AND the draft is deep as hell and if we could get in the top 5 some how it could be worth it (landing seth jones would give us a #1 d for 10-20 yrs)

Something tells me that you think our chances of winning the cup would dramatically increase if we had Nyquist in the line-up. I can't quite put my finger on why I think that... :confused:

Edited by RedWingsDad

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Your subject line is true for 96% of the league, so, nice prediction. Dynamite.

I do agree with your sentiment about the Wings staying put.

I think that as fans, across any sport, we love to play GM and draw up all these hypotheticals that most of the time are simply pipe dreams and just will not happen. Especially trades. If you want to get rid of all these players, you're assuming that other teams will them. Like Sammy, Cleary, White, you can't just move them at will. You can't just implode the team and automatically stay competitive.

The Wings are competing right now. They're doing what they can with what they got. Do you have to ask for more? IMO it is not realistic in this salary cap age to think your team will just be lights out every year. Take a step back and realize, like the title implies, your team cannot be above average every year. There's no reason to overly negative about it.

EuroWing and e_prime like this

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Get healthy, make a move or two at the deadline, go on a heater, win the cup.

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I never thought the Wings had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the cup this season. Not after a first round knockout last season and then losing all the key players that you mentioned.

I've been content with watching the kids develop this season and they've been a more than pleasant surprise.

Ram and Serratoni like this

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Something tells me that you think our chances of winning the cup would dramatically increase if we had Nyquist in the line-up. I can't quite put my finger on why I think that... :confused:

hahaha i think he should be on the team since the start of the season and signing samuelsson was a big mistake since the day it happened but no we still need help specfically a big defender or 2

I disagree with a lot of what both of you are saying. I legitimately think we are a piece or two from being as competitive as any team in the league. A big minute stay at home defenseman, and a top six winger like a Michael Ryder type (not him specifically) would improve this team a lot. Then with Helm back we'd have a pretty solid team.

I don't like the idea of stock piling picks because that essentially throws this season away as well as the next couple (until picks and prospects mature). By that time Datsyuk and Filppula may be long gone, Zetterberg will be on the decline, as will Franzen and Kronwall. In two or three years we might find we're further away from winning a cup then we are right now.

not saying we gotta rebuild i just dont think this season is a cup winning season .... just keeping tatar and andersson here rest of the year will benefit us next year , itll give them more experience and who knows what will happen in the off season with trades and players being bought out maybe then we can get some good defensemen

im not willing to give up our 1st round pick in a really deep year and good prospects to get someone like bouwmeester when i think the odds of winning it all this year arent clearly as good as years pasts

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hahaha i think he should be on the team since the start of the season and signing samuelsson was a big mistake since the day it happened but no we still need help specfically a big defender or 2

not saying we gotta rebuild i just dont think this season is a cup winning season .... just keeping tatar and andersson here rest of the year will benefit us next year , itll give them more experience and who knows what will happen in the off season with trades and players being bought out maybe then we can get some good defensemen

im not willing to give up our 1st round pick in a really deep year and good prospects to get someone like bouwmeester when i think the odds of winning it all this year arent clearly as good as years pasts

the odds aren't as good as past years, but they're probably better than future years. As I said, we might very soon find ourselves without Datsyuk and Filppula and an aging Franzen, Zetterberg, and Kronwall.

I don't expect any blockbuster trade or anything, but I would like to see Datsyuk get a legit winger (not converted center), and another defenseman. Then we're very likely to make the playoffs, and combined with getting some guys healthy, we could very well go on a run. Two years from now I'm not so sure.

Finally, replace any three guys you want with Tatar, Nyquist, and Andersson and we might be a marginally better team, but without another acquisition or two we're still not over the hump. These kids are good, but they aren't nearly good enough to take over games yet.

Nightfall likes this

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You just saved me a lot of time in May and June, thanks!

Seriously, though. I don't think they have what it takes, either. When I watch a lot of other teams, they are faster, work harder, and just have the desire that our boys don't seem to have.

You forgot other teams also have less injuries. And I completely disagree that our boys don't have the desire to win. IMO, the reason we have been winning is because the teams work ethic and desire.

The parity in the NHL is ridiculous. I kind of look at it like this: There are 3 tiers of teams. The top tier is small, including Chicago, Anaheim, Vancouver, Boston, Pittsburgh maybe. THen you have tier 2 which includes most other teams in the playoff chase, including the Red Wings. The final tier has the teams like Edmonton, Columbus, NYI, etc.

The point is, do you think the Wings could beat Chicago or Anaheim in a 7 game series? IMO, yes, because the teams in tier 1 aren't all that different from the teams in tier 2. Anaheim wasn't even that good last year and this year they are tearing it up. When you look at the big picture, teams really aren't that far apart when it comes to talent, especially in the top 2 tiers. Carolina will probably be a top seed in the East this year. Do you think the Wings could beat them in a 7 game series? I watch them play sometimes and they aren't all that impressive. LA was a tier 2 team last year and managed to win the cup. I am not convinced that this team can't win the cup when healthy. I think they have the ability to do it, and I think one more piece would push us closer to the top of tier 2. I also realize that every other team in Tier 1 and Tier 2 have the same chance and ability to win it as well.

I just think people are panicking because we aren't the same dominant team we have been in the past. But the league has been changing dramatically, even since 2009 and 2010. Teams are a lot close together in terms of talent and depth. You have to get hot at the right time, get good luck with injuries, and anything can happen.

Edited by cupforwings
e_prime, Redwings 1926 and Bar Down like this

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...didn't the 8th seed Kings win last year, I bet you saw that coming too.

I try to explain this all the time to the glass half empty crowd, no one here cares that you don't believe and no one thinks you are intelligent for predicting 1 out of 30 teams won't win.

We enjoy watching our team, so you know what to do with your predictions....

For lack of a negative button, my response is to write out NEGATIVE.

redwings15 likes this

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Ya know they are not that far away. They have a number 1 goalie, number 1 dman and a number one center... I mean look at them objectively. If they make the playoffs they have a good shot.

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Any playoff team can win the cup including the wings. The best thing we can do is stay the course and add pieces if it makes sense. In 2-3 years I see us as perennial cup contenders.

The way Babcock has the wings playing is playoff hockey... The team isn't relying on their skill to win games their out working their way to wins and the wings haven't played that way in 3 years

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With your great powers of seeing the future can the OP give me the next lottery numbers?

Come on bud. I could have told you before the season started this team wasnt winning the Cup.

Azelov likes this

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I disagree with a lot of what both of you are saying. I legitimately think we are a piece or two from being as competitive as any team in the league. A big minute stay at home defenseman, and a top six winger like a Michael Ryder type (not him specifically) would improve this team a lot. Then with Helm back we'd have a pretty solid team.

I don't like the idea of stock piling picks because that essentially throws this season away as well as the next couple (until picks and prospects mature). By that time Datsyuk and Filppula may be long gone, Zetterberg will be on the decline, as will Franzen and Kronwall. In two or three years we might find we're further away from winning a cup then we are right now.

Maybe if those pieces were Yzerman and Lidstrom

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Next years forwards.

Franzen-Datsyuk-Perry

Brunner-Zetts-Bertuzzi

Nyquist-Helm-Tatar

Abs-Andersson-Tootoo

Our defense is going nowhere but up from here on and I think they can get it done. Over ripening our prospects could potentially have got us one of the best 3rd lines in the league for dirt cheap

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if they do ill gladly say i was an idiot and i was wrong but i think if most of us are realistic you'd realize we dont have great chances with lidstrom gone and stuart as well as losing rafalski 2 yrs ago and never getting a top d man back to win t all this season

the whole point to this is to calm down about trade deadline and not expect the wings to sell out the future for someone like bouwmeester, iginla or whomever. In fact id like to see us getting rid of guys like ian white and if possible samuelsson and coliacovo(although both been hurt all year so i doubt it could happen)If it was possible to do like a ian white for ryan whitney type deal id be down for something like that

we still got a good enough team to make the playoffs and if we can get rid of white and a few others and get extra draft picks instead of losing them for nothing then we should, but we shouldnt throw in someone like tatar,nyquist or our 1st rd pick in any deal this year

I hope to god we make the playoffs cause it wouldnt be the same but on the flip side i can see no better year not to get in if we had to choose the year since this is a shortened season and wouldnt hurt as much AND the draft is deep as hell and if we could get in the top 5 some how it could be worth it (landing seth jones would give us a #1 d for 10-20 yrs)

I agree, realistically we are not in a position to challenge for the cup, but making the playoffs to me is pretty meaningful to keep our playoff streak alive (which is a helluva lot better than the Blackhawks streak). We just gotta keep pushing forward with younger guys and within a few years we can be an elite team again. Right now we just have to take a few steps back and find our new Identity and future great players. I think its with more of our young players in GR personally. But hey we might get lucky and sign a Perry or Getzlaf and challenge for a cup run sooner. I just don't see that happening. But hey if an 8th seed can win a cup like last year, than the Red Wings just have to get in, and try to play lights out hockey and you never know. I'm gonna support the Wings till the day I die, but fans also need to be realistic, we are taking a few steps back and the only way to build another cup winning team is to develop the young talent. Its not always gonna be there in free agency like in days past when we could get the top players.

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I disagree with a lot of what both of you are saying. I legitimately think we are a piece or two from being as competitive as any team in the league. A big minute stay at home defenseman, and a top six winger like a Michael Ryder type (not him specifically) would improve this team a lot. Then with Helm back we'd have a pretty solid team.

I don't like the idea of stock piling picks because that essentially throws this season away as well as the next couple (until picks and prospects mature). By that time Datsyuk and Filppula may be long gone, Zetterberg will be on the decline, as will Franzen and Kronwall. In two or three years we might find we're further away from winning a cup then we are right now.

The optimism is refreshing, but I have to disagree. I don't think anything we can realistically add will make us all that much better. Anything can happen and the better we are the better the chances it will. But I think no matter who we add, we're still a puck-possession team that isn't particularly good at puck possession; still vulnerable to an agressive forecheck (and there are several teams in the west who do "agressive forecheck" very effectively); still have problems with our special teams...

We'd still have to get hot and play at our best to have any chance of making it through four tough playoff rounds. As we are now (with Flip and Helm healthy) I think we have pretty much that same chance.

I'd agree that we may get even worse in the next few years, and that's exactly why I'd be against making any minor improvements now. Better to be "further away but on the rise" than "further away and still another 3 years away from starting to climb again".

Someone in the Filppula thread brought up "opportunity cost", and I think it applies here as well. Say we were to add Volchenkov and Ryder. Maybe that buys a second round loss instead of a first. Doesn't add anything to the future, nor is a second round loss anything to be happy about. Basically, in addition to whatever we give up to get them we trade down a handful of spots in the draft for a few extra games. That's like giving up an extra 2nd-round pick.

I don't think we should tank the season and start selling off everyone for picks. And maybe there's only a semantic difference between "tanking" and "intentionally not making improvements". But I think we need to focus on building our next generation now, and just be content with whatever success we have in the meantime. I don't think that's "throwing away the season", and I don't see how you can really believe that just a couple, rather minor, moves would take us from "throw away" to "as competetive as any team in the league".

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Next years forwards.

Franzen-Datsyuk-Perry

Brunner-Zetts-Bertuzzi

Nyquist-Helm-Tatar

Abs-Andersson-Tootoo

Our defense is going nowhere but up from here on and I think they can get it done. Over ripening our prospects could potentially have got us one of the best 3rd lines in the league for dirt cheap

Maybe a Dekeyser signing in the offseason and then in a couple years add Sproul and Ouellet to the mix. I'm in.

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